(05-27-2019, 03:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think we're going off of Boling's past reputation, but he didn't play up to that last year. He's also 30 and not all linemen age the same. Also, who knows how he fits with the new schemes? Also, who knows if he can really play RT at the NFL level. As bad as Hart is, maybe he's a better RT than Boling? We have no idea. 

Why not Glenn and Williams at Tackle. Miller and Boling at Guard. Price at Center.

(05-28-2019, 04:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why not Glenn and Williams at Tackle. Miller and Boling at Guard. Price at Center.

Because with Boling out, they're trying Glenn at LG, and it looks like it will stay that way for awhile. If Glenn is going to be a legitimate candidate to usurp Hart at RT, then you need to get him as many reps as you can in that spot. This is assuming they really want Jonah at LT, which is how it's looking.

Also, they're paying Hart $7.4 million this year, so I don't see him riding pine. Not to mention Taylor and Turner have gushed about how much they love Hart. 

Glenn-Boling-Price-Miller-Williams looks the best on paper to me, but apparently the new regime wasn't impressed with Glenn at LT and want Jonah to start his career out there. 

---------------------------------

My prediction is that the line will look like this:

Williams-Glenn-Price-Miller-Hart
-or-
Williams-Boling-Price-Miller-Hart

Those lines look pretty solid to me and will save the Bengals 9 million or 5 million, depending on who they cut (Glenn or Boling). 

Michael Jordan will be one to keep an eye on as well. 

(05-28-2019, 04:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why not Glenn and Williams at Tackle. Miller and Boling at Guard. Price at Center.

Maybe because LT is the most important position on the OL, they see Williams as their best LT, and Glenn isn't comfortable on the right side.  The LG is also between a rookie LT and a 2nd year C who struggled as a rookie and the staff feels those two need to build as much chemistry as possible with the guys who are going to playing next to them and Boling can't go.  Miller is going into year 5, so swapping RT's is probably the least disruptive change they can make.

Seriously, last year Boling had a 61.9 PFF rating, Glenn was 60.9, and Hart was 56.2.  Boling and Glenn were better at their respective positions, but the reality is that there was not as big a gap between them and Hart as people are pretending.  Plus, you have to assume some drop off if Glenn is playing on a side he hasn't played before.  

Ultimately, this is all just vapor, because they couldn't put Boling out there if they wanted to.  

I know we think Williams will be great, but there aren't many guys that can go from college straight to starting LT and play extremely well as a rookie.

I would have preferred to ease him in as a RT.

(05-28-2019, 05:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because with Boling out, they're trying Glenn at LG, and it looks like it will stay that way for awhile. If Glenn is going to be a legitimate candidate to usurp Hart at RT, then you need to get him as many reps as you can in that spot. This is assuming they really want Jonah at LT, which is how it's looking.

Also, they're paying Hart $7.4 million this year, so I don't see him riding pine. Not to mention Taylor and Turner have gushed about how much they love Hart. 

Glenn-Boling-Price-Miller-Williams looks the best on paper to me, but apparently the new regime wasn't impressed with Glenn at LT and want Jonah to start his career out there. 

---------------------------------

My prediction is that the line will look like this:

Williams-Glenn-Price-Miller-Hart
-or-
Williams-Boling-Price-Miller-Hart

Those lines look pretty solid to me and will save the Bengals 9 million or 5 million, depending on who they cut (Glenn or Boling). 

Michael Jordan will be one to keep an eye on as well. 

It's hard to tell how solid those lines will be.

Let's take the 1st:

-Williams will be stepping in at LT which is incredibly tough. Not many rookies can make that jump in Year 1.
-Glenn would be playing Guard which he hasn't done since college.
-Price was a bad center last year. He'll have to improve a lot.
-Miller was mediocre. In and out of Buffalo's lineup until last year and even at that he struggled at run blocking.
-Then we know how bad Hart is. He gave up 10 sacks last year in addition to the false starts.

Best case is:
-Williams steps in and is a good LT from day 1.
-Glenn makes the transition to guard and is above average.
-Price becomes an average center.
-Miller becomes and above average Guard.
-Hart improves and becomes above average instead of bad.

Maybe the 18-20th best line?

Read the scouting reports on Jonah Williams. Their ONLY knock on him was wingspan and as one scout noted his wingspan is less than an inch shorter than the favored value. Multiple scouts called him the best OL prospect to come out since Joe Thomas. Really we got a steal at 11 mainly because of some bizarre picks above us.

(05-28-2019, 10:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to tell how solid those lines will be.

Let's take the 1st:

-Williams will be stepping in at LT which is incredibly tough. Not many rookies can make that jump in Year 1.
-Glenn would be playing Guard which he hasn't done since college.
-Price was a bad center last year. He'll have to improve a lot.
-Miller was mediocre. In and out of Buffalo's lineup until last year and even at that he struggled at run blocking.
-Then we know how bad Hart is. He gave up 10 sacks last year in addition to the false starts.

Best case is:
-Williams steps in and is a good LT from day 1.
-Glenn makes the transition to guard and is above average.
-Price becomes an average center.
-Miller becomes and above average Guard.
-Hart improves and becomes above average instead of bad.

Maybe the 18-20th best line?

I'm definitely not trying to say those lines are a sure bet. Regardless of how this shakes out, we're going to have some serious questions heading into the season. Even with a Glenn-Boling-Price-Miller-Jonah line.

- Glenn was bad at LT last year. Can he rebound? Can he stay healthy? Who steps in if he doesn't?
- Boling didn't grade out well according to PFF last year, either. So you also have to hope he rebounds.
- Price had a rough rookie season both in performance and with his health, so he has a lot to prove.
- Miller has been pretty meh with the Bills.
- Jonah has the same questions regardless of which side he starts out on. If he can truly be a franchise LT, we should throw him to the wolves and see. The cream usually rises.

(05-28-2019, 05:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Also, they're paying Hart $7.4 million this year, so I don't see him riding pine. =

Except their not. 7.4 is if he hit all incentives. If he rides the pine, it's more like 5 mil, which is backup money anyway.

(05-29-2019, 08:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Except their not. 7.4 is if he hit all incentives. If he rides the pine, it's more like 5 mil, which is backup money anyway.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/bobby-hart-16952/

I'm not seeing any incentives for actual playing time. You have workout bonuses, roster bonuses and 500k worth of bonuses for being active on game days, meaning being on the 53. Whether he starts or not, he's going to be active on game days.

Also, even if it is $5 million, that's not backup money. Hart's $5.9 million cap hit makes him the 13th most expensive Right Tackle.

(05-28-2019, 11:39 PM)Joelist Wrote: Read the scouting reports on Jonah Williams. Their ONLY knock on him was wingspan and as one scout noted his wingspan is less than an inch shorter than the favored value. Multiple scouts called him the best OL prospect to come out since Joe Thomas. Really we got a steal at 11 mainly because of some bizarre picks above us.

Yes, Jonah is as solid of a pick as you can have at 11. Best O-line prospect in the Draft and many could argue for years and we get him at a position of weakness. It was a no brainer pick, i think if Price can grow into that player i think he can be and if Hart can improve we should be much better this season on the Line.

Like Pistons has said, if we can jump from near the bottom to around middle of the pack this season it will be huge and the Offense, namely the running game will be so much better. Which in turn should help keep the Defense fresh.

Hobson’s Choice today had an interesting tidbit that should end a lot of debate:

“Bobby Hart is the right tackle as sure as Mike Brown is the owner, Zac Taylor is the head coach and Adriel Jeremiah Green is their best player.”

(05-30-2019, 02:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Hobson’s Choice today had an interesting g tidbit that should end a lot of debate:

“Bobby Hart is the right tackle as sure as Mike Brown is the owner, Zac Taylor is the head coach and Adriel Jeremiah Green is their best player.”

Okay, i just hope Hart improves big time in pass protection. I think the Drafting of Sample was to help him out in this aspect.

(05-30-2019, 02:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Hobson’s Choice today had an interesting tidbit that should end a lot of debate:

“Bobby Hart is the right tackle as sure as Mike Brown is the owner, Zac Taylor is the head coach and Adriel Jeremiah Green is their best player.”

Yep. For all the people who rationalized that he was a depth signing...the contract numbers were starting Tackle dollars.

For whatever reason, the Bengals like Hart and think he's a good player. I don't understand it. Many of you don't understand it. It's true though.

The Bengals seem to like ex-Giant and Bills players and put a premium on them for some reason too.

(05-28-2019, 02:02 PM)3wt Wrote: And, while I have the luxury of guessing, I think Taylor has a very crystal plan and reason for every FA signing and draft pick.  Though I'm still mystified about the Hart signing, he's emphatic about it.

As for Miller, one of the things that excites me is his ability to run block.  I think we have the chance to have a very solid interior line for the first time in a while.  And if he's good enough to give Andy time in the interior, it could easily make a big difference in Andy's game.  If the interior can produce in the run game it will create some additional time on passing downs.

I'm pretty excited about Miller really.

Im not. Jonah may turn out to be a great tackle, but we need all rhe tackle depth we can get, simple fact he's a rookie not used yo a 16+ game season. He will need some protection as the season wears on. I look for Glenn to spell him quite a bit. Boling isn't going anywhere, and neither is Hart.

(05-30-2019, 02:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. For all the people who rationalized that he was a depth signing...the contract numbers were starting Tackle dollars.

For whatever reason, the Bengals like Hart and think he's a good player. I don't understand it. Many of you don't understand it. It's true though.

The Bengals seem to like ex-Giant and Bills players and put a premium on them for some reason too.

I do not understand it and have not been a Hart fan however I am also not an NFL offensive line coach. Frank Pollack who I highly respect as an O line coach seemed to believe there was something there when it came to Hart and the new regime seem to feel the same. I have went back and researched him a little and seems coming out of Florida State he was touted for his run blocking and scouting reports even complimented how his run blocking had developed to a level of being dominant.

He did play collegiate ball for a big time program and played a lot of collegiate snaps at the RT position. He is also very young so there really good be a higher ceiling than I am giving him credit for.

(05-28-2019, 11:39 PM)Joelist Wrote: Read the scouting reports on Jonah Williams. Their ONLY knock on him was wingspan and as one scout noted his wingspan is less than an inch shorter than the favored value. Multiple scouts called him the best OL prospect to come out since Joe Thomas. Really we got a steal at 11 mainly because of some bizarre picks above us.

Ross Tucker had some guy who is way into offensive linemen and raved about Williams as a left tackle. 

And Lap said there have been unsolicited positive comments from defensive players about Glen and Miller at the guard spots.

I'm still mystified by the Hart love, but if the other 4 produce at a high level we're a quantum leap ahead of last year.

(05-30-2019, 06:32 PM)3wt Wrote: Ross Tucker had some guy who is way into offensive linemen and raved about Williams as a left tackle. 

And Lap said there have been unsolicited positive comments from defensive players about Glen and Miller at the guard spots.

I'm still mystified by the Hart love, but if the other 4 produce at a high level we're a quantum leap ahead of last year.

How nice will it be for 3rd and 2-4 yards to go, to not be automatic passing downs?  For PA passes to actually suck defenders in?

Even if Boling is not in the starting lineup I don't think the team will move him. If the starting line up is Williams / Glenn / Price / Miller / Hart, someone has to be a guy off the bench to fill those tackle spots.

(05-28-2019, 10:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Best case is:
-Williams steps in and is a good LT from day 1.
-Glenn makes the transition to guard and is above average.
-Price becomes an average center.
-Miller becomes and above average Guard.
-Hart improves and becomes above average instead of bad.

Maybe the 18-20th best line?

Why is it impossible for Price to be better than "average"?

Basically you are saying two scrubs like Miller and Hart can be "above average" but not a first round pick like Price.

(05-28-2019, 05:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because with Boling out, they're trying Glenn at LG, and it looks like it will stay that way for awhile. If Glenn is going to be a legitimate candidate to usurp Hart at RT, then you need to get him as many reps as you can in that spot. This is assuming they really want Jonah at LT, which is how it's looking.

Also, they're paying Hart $7.4 million this year, so I don't see him riding pine. Not to mention Taylor and Turner have gushed about how much they love Hart. 

Glenn-Boling-Price-Miller-Williams looks the best on paper to me, but apparently the new regime wasn't impressed with Glenn at LT and want Jonah to start his career out there. 

---------------------------------

My prediction is that the line will look like this:

Williams-Glenn-Price-Miller-Hart
-or-
Williams-Boling-Price-Miller-Hart

Those lines look pretty solid to me and will save the Bengals 9 million or 5 million, depending on who they cut (Glenn or Boling). 

Michael Jordan will be one to keep an eye on as well. 

This is why FA happens before the draft. Sometimes you pick someone up as insurance in case you can't get the guy you'd want in the draft. Luckily for the Bengals, they were able to snag Jonah Williams. Now that they have Williams, they should be willing to just eat the one-year cap hit of Hart and bench him if Glenn/Williams/Boling is actually better at RT.

Personally, if the team was set on putting Williams at LT right away like they seem to be, I'm putting Westerman or Jordan at LG in the offseason and Glenn at RT, at least until Boling is back. Once Boling is back, I'd look to put Boling at both LG and RT with Glenn in the other and see how the line performs.