(06-26-2019, 09:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We have no quality guards on the roster. I'd say every guy we have at Guard is below average at best.

Price was a bad Center last year.

Hart was a bad Tackle. And Glenn was below average at best.

We could actually have our worst line this year with these injuries. Boling was the strength of our line for several years.

i believe miller has been a decent OG and John Jerry as well...   Not world betters but serviceable.

While hart wasn't an all pro out there.. He was a clear upgrade to Obg and Fisher..

(06-27-2019, 10:27 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: i believe miller has been a decent OG and John Jerry as well...   Not world betters but serviceable.

While hart wasn't an all pro out there.. He was a clear upgrade to Obg and Fisher..

I wonder how Eli feels about them.

(06-27-2019, 10:27 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: i believe miller has been a decent OG and John Jerry as well...   Not world betters but serviceable.

While hart wasn't an all pro out there.. He was a clear upgrade to Obg and Fisher..

Yep, these guys have a game plan in mind, and are convinced Hart can be what they need him to be in that plan. Otherwise, they would not be so entrenched with him. They just got here, so it's not like he's teachers pet or anything.

Based on the signing of two OGs I would not be surprised.

(06-27-2019, 03:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t really understand what you arguing, but you’re helping my point that we need higher picks to get actual difference makers like AJ. Much harder to screw those picks up. Although Mike Brown certainly has in the past.

I've been saying this for years. The Bengals need more picks on Days 1 and 2 of the draft. Higher probability to land a good player the earlier you draft.

It hasn't really paid off for the Bengals to keep investing late-round picks at certain positions like LB and WR.
The reason teams like the Patriots have been able to stay good all these years is they've been able to maintain their elite squad and then trade around their picks to get more draft capital. Then, as the good players leave, they have the draft capital to move up/down early in the draft as they want and still get plenty of good replacement to replace those that have left.

What would an OL without Williams and Boling look like?

OT - Glenn, Hart
OG - Miller, Jerry, Westerman, Jordan
C - Price, Hopkins

They need 1-2 more solid OTs to back up Glenn and Hart (who were both not good last year).
The only other healthy OTs on the roster right now are Sutherland (UDFA rookie) and Perkins (UDFA 2018).
Both Sutherland and Perkins were actually projected more as OGs coming into the league, not OT, so it's probably a low chance they become a competent OT in the NFL.

(06-27-2019, 02:21 AM)BengalChris Wrote: And those injured players are another year older and the influx of youth has not taken hold as planned. Regardless of what the fans think, we aren't favored to win much.

Individually we have talent at key positions, but the depth is weak. If Mixon were to go down there's no one close to his talent. Mike Brown doesn't keep a talented backup QB cause rookie deals are so much cheaper. After Green we have Boyd, but they are both our starters. No one to come in and take up the slack when one of them is missing, as last year proved.

Who exactly are our backup OTs??? Jerry play some backup LT for part of one season in Miami. Maybe it's him.

Would any of our LBers start on a decent NFL team? I doubt it.

We have talent in the secondary and the D line and with the starting skilled positions on offense. After that it's really just a bunch of so-so guys.

 

1.) Health is a major concern for any team. Guys like AJ Green and Tyler Eifert do not grow on trees. Any team would have a problem replacing them.

2.) Can't disagree with you more on your take about RBs. Bernard is a starting capable player in his own right and we drafted two good ones in the draft. 
2b.) Know teams really invest in Backup QBs in free agency; the Bengals did what every other team does and drafted a backup early in the draft.
2C.) I get your point but How many 4th Are can replace the production. If AJ gets hurt again we are in trouble. If he doesn't though we're good.

3.) Yes our offensive tackle situation is bleek we should consider making a trade for at least a backup swing tackel. With that being said I believe Glenn can be a decent starter for us this season at LT. Hart is the bigger concern for me. 
To me the bigger question is Price can he rebound from a bad  year? I think Westerman can plug in and replace Boiling without problem. 




4.) I would say Vigil is underrated on this board and his injury in the middle of the season did more damage than people want to admit. 

(06-27-2019, 01:09 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 3.) Yes our offensive tackle situation is bleek we should consider making a trade for at least a backup swing tackel. With that being said I believe Glenn can be a decent starter for us this season at LT. Hart is the bigger concern for me. 
To me the bigger question is Price can he rebound from a bad  year? I think Westerman can plug in and replace Boiling without problem. 

What are you willing to give up for a OT?  Starting OL guys don't come cheap and don't get traded easily.  Keep in mind whoever we trade for is not going to be a long term solution. 
Westerman couldn't even get on the active roster for the majority of the last 2 season let alone displace a starter via performance. And he wasn't plugged into either the 1st or 2nd string lines during OTAs so No he can not easily replace Clint Boling

So we've never got any clarification on Boling "being done".

(06-27-2019, 01:09 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Health is a major concern for any team. Guys like AJ Green and Tyler Eifert do not grow on trees. Any team would have a problem replacing them.

2.) Can't disagree with you more on your take about RBs. Bernard is a starting capable player in his own right and we drafted two good ones in the draft. 
2b.) Know teams really invest in Backup QBs in free agency; the Bengals did what every other team does and drafted a backup early in the draft.
2C.) I get your point but How many 4th Are can replace the production. If AJ gets hurt again we are in trouble. If he doesn't though we're good.

3.) Yes our offensive tackle situation is bleek we should consider making a trade for at least a backup swing tackel. With that being said I believe Glenn can be a decent starter for us this season at LT. Hart is the bigger concern for me. 
To me the bigger question is Price can he rebound from a bad  year? I think Westerman can plug in and replace Boiling without problem. 




4.) I would say Vigil is underrated on this board and his injury in the middle of the season did more damage than people want to admit. 

Eifert hasn't finished a season in how long? Green has missed time the last few years. Glenn has missed time each of the last 3 seasons. Is there some reason why we should con ourselves into believing they'll get 16 games in? It would be great if they did, but history warns us otherwise. The new comers haven't stepped up, so the depth is weak, as I said and which is the point. There were lots of opportunities for a young WR to step up last season and none of them did, except for Boyd who replaced LaFell in the starting line up.

Bernard will never be a 3 down RB for more than a game or two, and probably not even that long. Mixon is head and shoulders above Bernard, and is at least as good as Bernard in the passing game.

Taking a backup QB early would be Garopolo in the 2nd like NE did a few years ago. Many teams have good backup QB. They just need to value the position. Phili values the position and got a SB win with a backup QB. We got one win in the back half of the season. In 2008, NE had a 11-5 record with a backup QB. Not everyone can see the difference though.

Boling was our backup LT last season. Now we don't seem to have one.

 

(06-27-2019, 01:22 PM)pally Wrote: What are you willing to give up for a OT?  Starting OL guys don't come cheap and don't get traded easily.  Keep in mind whoever we trade for is not going to be a long term solution. 
Westerman couldn't even get on the active roster for the majority of the last 2 season let alone displace a starter via performance.  And he wasn't plugged into either the 1st or 2nd string lines during OTAs so No he can not easily replace Clint Boling

Westerman has played well when given the opportunity to play. .
As to your question it depends on the player for example for Trent Williams I would not mind a 2nd Rd pick for him.

(06-27-2019, 01:41 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Westerman has played well when given the opportunity to play. .
As to your question it depends on the player for example for Trent Williams I would not mind a 2nd Rd pick for him.

That's the problem, there's never a sense of urgency with this team. No matter what the scenario we will most likely never see this team make a move like that for a one or two year rental. We could be neck and neck with Pittsburgh for a playoff spot and just lose our starting left tackle and we would still likely not make a move for a guy like Williams. No urgency, no real desire to win.

(06-27-2019, 02:05 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: That's the problem, there's never a sense of urgency with this team. No matter what the scenario we will most likely never see this team make a move like that for a one or two year rental. We could be neck and neck with Pittsburgh for a playoff spot and just lose our starting left tackle and we would still likely not make a move for a guy like Williams. No urgency, no real desire to win.

That mentality, unfortunately, comes from the owner, so it won't be fixed until he's long gone and his thinking process is removed from his heirs.

(06-27-2019, 10:27 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: i believe miller has been a decent OG and John Jerry as well...   Not world betters but serviceable.

While hart wasn't an all pro out there.. He was a clear upgrade to Obg and Fisher..

In the running game, yes. In the passing game, no.

(06-27-2019, 02:05 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: That's the problem, there's never a sense of urgency with this team. No matter what the scenario we will most likely never see this team make a move like that for a one or two year rental. We could be neck and neck with Pittsburgh for a playoff spot and just lose our starting left tackle and we would still likely not make a move for a guy like Williams. No urgency, no real desire to win.

I expect the team wants to avoid the inevitable valley. They know that if you go "all-in," you better produce in the window you have because you'll have a (few) year(s) of rebuilding that follows.
While fans might be ok with a couple years of 2-4 win seasons after a potential series of 10+ win seasons, the organization does not seem to be because it will impact their finances.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Brown family has another cash cow outside of the Bengals unlike most other owners around the league. Therefore, a bottom-feeder year really hurts the pocket. 

(06-27-2019, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I expect the team wants to avoid the inevitable valley. They know that if you go "all-in," you better produce in the window you have because you'll have a (few) year(s) of rebuilding that follows.
While fans might be ok with a couple years of 2-4 win seasons after a potential series of 10+ win seasons, the organization does not seem to be because it will impact their finances.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Brown family has another cash cow outside of the Bengals unlike most other owners around the league. Therefore, a bottom-feeder year really hurts the pocket. 

Production is relative though. If you go "all in" and don't win a ring but end up being a consistent competitor, you become a more attractive landing spot for free agents and to mention productive winning seasons get fans back in the stadium.

(06-27-2019, 09:00 AM)HuDey Wrote: If by “compete” you mean “contend”, Yeah that was never gonna happen this season anyway. I am optimistic about the future with Zac Taylor but I don’t see any serious noise being made here with Marvin’s declining core.

I hate to keep harping on it, but I think we could have a good coach here and struggle with front office philosophies.

I feel like 75% of the teams in the league would have signed their new HC 2-3 upgrades in free agency in a similar situation as the Bengals are in.

Our big add was Jonah Williams...and he's out for the year. That is a devastating blow.

But, it wouldn't be as devastating had we signed 2-3 good free agents.

(06-27-2019, 11:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yep, these guys have a game plan in mind, and are convinced Hart can be what they need him to be in that plan. Otherwise, they would not be so entrenched with him. They just got here, so it's not like he's teachers pet or anything.

I think the roster had more holes than they could fill. That's the sad truth. So they had to retain guys like Hart.

Every roster isn't 1 or 2 pieces away.

How about we wait until camp and preseason so we can at least see what the new system is before everyone starts the doom whining? Good scheme can at least partly cover a host of weaknesses.

(06-27-2019, 03:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the roster had more holes than they could fill. That's the sad truth. So they had to retain guys like Hart.

Every roster isn't 1 or 2 pieces away.

The team could have done better in FA by going for different players within the same cost range (somewhat).
For example:
Daryl Williams instead of Bobby Hart
Jordan Hicks instead of Preston Brown

It's the whole familiarity vs risk thing. Hart and/or Brown could be better this year than Williams and Hicks respectively but bringing back the same guys doesn't invoke optimism or hope leading into the season.