I don't mean to be piling on, but here are some numbers on John Ross that I just saw from Profootballoutsiders.

Ross's 22.2% drop percentage (6 drops, 21 receptions) was fourth highest in the league last year, but the three players higher than him (Michael Roberts, Chris Ivory, and Demetrius Harris) barely had as many targets COMBINED (66) as Ross had by himself (58).

Despite finishing tied for 190th in the league in receptions only 5 players had more interceptions on passes targeted for them than Ross's 5. Those 5 players who had more ints averaged 69 receptions.

Finally in their "plus/minus" ranking, which I understand is supposed to grade every play based on down, distance, and opposing defense, Ross was dead last among WRs.



Also from Profootballreference.com....

Over the last 10 seasons there have been 861 times a WR has been targeted at least 50 times in a season. Among those 861 John Ross's 2018 numbers rank 860th (thanks to Eddie Royal in 2011) in "yards per target" (3.62) and 858th in "catch percentage" (36.2%) ahead of Louis Murphy '09, Devin Aromashodu '11, and Mohamed Massaoquoi '09.

Stuff like this happens when your not running the right routs or give up on play. He fixes that, he fixes those stats.

Ah yes. The ol' I don't mean to pile on followed by piling on. We're all pretty aware of what his past has been. But the only thing that really matters any more is what his future will be.

(07-24-2019, 07:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't mean to be piling on, but here are some numbers on John Ross that I just saw from Profootballoutsiders.

Ross's 22.2% drop percentage (6 drops, 21 receptions) was fourth highest in the league last year, but the three players higher than him (Michael Roberts, Chris Ivory, and Demetrius Harris) barely had as many targets COMBINED (66) as Ross had by himself (58).

Despite finishing tied for 190th in the league in receptions only 5 players had more interceptions on passes targeted for them than Ross's 5.  Those 5 players who had more ints averaged 69 receptions.

Finally in their "plus/minus" ranking, which I understand is supposed to grade every play based on down, distance, and opposing defense, Ross was dead last among WRs.



Also from Profootballreference.com....

Over the last 10 seasons there have been 861 times a WR has been targeted at least 50 times in a season.  Among those 861 John Ross's 2018 numbers rank 860th (thanks to Eddie Royal in 2011) in "yards per target" (3.62) and 858th in "catch percentage" (36.2%) ahead of Louis Murphy '09, Devin Aromashodu '11, and Mohamed Massaoquoi '09.

If you were going to pile on you'd have mentioned the following:

In his entire rookie year he managed to catch 0% of his targets yet still managed to produce a fumble while touching the football only one time for a 100% fumble rate. That was while he appeared in 3 games and started 1. It's difficult to research, but I'm pretty sure that is close to, if not, the worst rookie year of any WR in NFL history. A receiver who didn't even appear in a game would have had a better year statistically. That's without also mentioning calling the coach out in videos he posted, then claiming he had an injury that he hid.

You'd also have called him the One Fumble Wonder.

That's if you were piling on.

Have always been a Ross supporter but he definitely needs to work on the drops.

Think he will and once he gets comfortable will be electric, we will see man.

(07-24-2019, 08:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Have always been a Ross supporter but he definitely needs to work on the drops.

Think he will and once he gets comfortable will be electric, we will see man.

Despite my busting Ross' chops, pretty much all the time, I also hope he gets comfortable and turns into a dynamic receiver. It would only help this team.

(07-24-2019, 08:19 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Despite my busting Ross' chops, pretty much all the time, I also hope he gets comfortable and turns into a dynamic receiver. It would only help this team.

Yeah, you are definitely a Ross ball buster Chris lol

In the end we just want the team to be better and if he cannot do it I am with you on moving on.

This should be the year we know.

Maybe Ross can get it together, but I'm not going to get mad at Callahan or ZT if they can't resurrect a WR who is ranked 860th on any metric.  Just saying.

(07-24-2019, 08:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This should be the year we know.

I can already think of excuses to kick the can down the road another year. 

(07-24-2019, 09:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can already think of excuses to kick the can down the road another year. 

Eh, it all depends Nately, we will see.

If Ross didn't score 7 TD's last season I would be right there with you regardless of him dropping the ball way too much. Him quitting on routes is what made me question him, if he gets comfortable look the hell out, big if I know but this is an Offensive coach we have now, not Marv.

(07-24-2019, 09:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can already think of excuses to kick the can down the road another year. 

He's still technically a rookie. He might even be in college.

(07-24-2019, 11:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, it all depends Nately, we will see.

If Ross didn't score 7 TD's last season I would be right there with you regardless of him dropping the ball way too much. Him quitting on routes is what made me question him, if he gets comfortable look the hell out, big if I know but this is an Offensive coach we have now, not Marv.

But that's all he's done is score 7 TDS. That's pretty good I suppose, but Mike Williams scored 10 TDS on 60 something targets as a number 3 WR for the Chargers last year. Ross has mental lapses, and brick hands. He's inefficient as all get out. The guy is a top 10 pick. Those guys come in and contribute day one. They aren't supposed to be 3 year projects. I don't hate the guy (hated the pick), but he's been a severe disappointment. You can't blame Marvin either. John Ross deals with position coaches, and coordinators more than he did Marvin.

Hmm, I think I'll just remember that sick-nasty preseason reception and ensuing juke-fest Hope ZT and crew can put him in the right position to make a bigger (and more consistent) impact.

(07-24-2019, 11:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, it all depends Nately, we will see.

If Ross didn't score 7 TD's last season I would be right there with you regardless of him dropping the ball way too much. Him quitting on routes is what made me question him, if he gets comfortable look the hell out, big if I know but this is an Offensive coach we have now, not Marv.

Meh, TO scored 10 tds in 2010 and we were fine letting him go.  On a more relayed note, I'm not saying we have to move on from Ross I'm just saying these stats put things in perspective IF ZT can't instantly fix the guy.  

As Fred has pointed out before, we have other offensive players who weren't driven into the 860th rank by Marvin.

FootballGuys has its list of players that could blow away their average draft position in fantasy this year, and ours in John Ross:

Quote:Marvin Lewis never seemed to like John Ross, so we have to be encouraged by the coach's departure. Ross should play the Brandin Cooks role in the offense and we already know he has a knack for scoring. He has the pedigree and we haven’t seen him affirmatively play poorly and fail to make an impact for a prolonged stretch like say Laquon Treadwell or Josh Doctson. A new day in Cincinnati could unlock Ross’s potential.

I love how it calls out Marvin right off the bat because that was always Marvin's MO: never giving players (especially rookies) the opportunity to do what they do best and unlock their full potential.

He only played in thirteen games last year with only 21 catches but 7 touchdowns, which is a pretty damn good ratio. He obviously won't keep up with that pace, but he has a knack for making big plays and the potential is there.

Let's hope Taylor and the rest of the new coaches use him to his potential and he blows up this year!

Imagine having a consistent threat to go deep opposite of AJ or even a guy that can just catch a pass anywhere and go the distance.

If you need a reminder of how he can move, here he is with a little shake and bake! here he is with a little shake-and-bake!

Love the enthusiasm, Brad, but I’m not sure we needed another John Ross thread.

It will inevitably descend into one big pile on about how much he sucks, how awful the pick was, etc.

Agreed, Brad, and it is nice to see some more optimism thrown his way. It will be challenging for him because, honestly, he would be behind Boyd, AJ, and likely Eifert as a target, but if the running game is rolling, play-action shots with him could get him some big numbers with minimal targets. I will NEVER understand the limited plays last year. He is a nightmare in space, and they hardly ever threw him a screen or hitch to get him the ball and try to make someone miss.

ZT will not care who he is or when he was drafted....if he can make plays, he will get the ball.

(07-25-2019, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I love how it calls out Marvin right off the bat because that was always Marvin's MO: never giving players (especially rookies) the opportunity to do what they do best and unlock their full potential.  

This just is not true.  Marvin played rookies and young players as much as the average NFL coach.  We had tons of rookies start under Marvin.
And nothing indicates that Marvin did not like Ross.  All of the evidence points to Ross not being good enough to get on the field his rookies season.

(07-25-2019, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed, Brad, and it is nice to see some more optimism thrown his way.  It will be challenging for him because, honestly, he would be behind Boyd, AJ, and likely Eifert as a target, but if the running game is rolling, play-action shots with him could get him some big numbers with minimal targets.  I will NEVER understand the limited plays last year.  He is a nightmare in space, and they hardly ever threw him a screen or hitch to get him the ball and try to make someone miss.  

ZT will not care who he is or when he was drafted....if he can make plays, he will get the ball.

Agree,

I believe Ross will get his chance at new life this season with plays that aren't just take off running as fast as you can and we'll throw it deep. And I hope it makes a big difference, we'll soon see.

(07-25-2019, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: FootballGuys has its list of players that could blow away their average draft position in fantasy this year, and ours in John Ross:


I love how it calls out Marvin right off the bat because that was always Marvin's MO: never giving players (especially rookies) the opportunity to do what they do best and unlock their full potential.  

He only played in thirteen games last year with only 21 catches but 7 touchdowns, which is a pretty damn good ratio.  He obviously won't keep up with that pace, but he has a knack for making big plays and the potential is there.

Let's hope Taylor and the rest of the new coaches use him to his potential and he blows up this year!  

Imagine having a consistent threat to go deep opposite of AJ or even a guy that can just catch a pass anywhere and go the distance.

If you need a reminder of how he can move, here he is with a little shake and bake! here he is with a little shake-and-bake!

damnit the last thing we need is players spontaneously combusting on the field.