(08-01-2019, 07:15 PM)Synric Wrote: This could be the best defensive line the Bengals have had in a long time.

I hope you are correct. I thought the same thing in 2017 and 2018.

I was very wrong

(08-01-2019, 07:18 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I like them too, but to be fair we were saying the same thing last year.

The cover 2 zone Austin played behind them did not help it allowed easy catches over the middle. Training camp reports Captian Lou is playing alot more cover 1 man which will clog up the middle but put Dre and WJ3 on more of an island outside...but Bates does have the range to play cover 1.

(08-01-2019, 07:28 PM)Synric Wrote: The cover 2 zone Austin played behind them did not help it allowed easy catches over the middle. Training camp reports Captian Lou is playing alot more cover 1 man which will clog up the middle but put Dre and WJ3 on more of an island outside...but Bates does have the range to play cover 1.

This.

We drafted a lot of really great man/press cover receivers. Then decided to stick them in schemes they weren't comfortable with or never played in. It's really quite shocking we did so poorly last year on defense.

I like that Lou is tending so far towards a more Man scheme as our roster is stacked with secondary players who are far better in man coverage. Shades of when Zim came in and immediately ditched Bresnahan's zone scheme.

(08-01-2019, 05:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Or else Hubbard and Lawson are just great pass rushers.

Lawson has 9.5 sacks in just 702 defensive snaps.  That is a better sack rate than Geno's 10 in 795 snaps last year.

Hubbard has 6 in just 588 snaps.  That is a better sack rate than Dunlap's 8 sacks in 839 snaps last year.

Not arguing against that. I think we have some pretty good talent there if they can stay healthy, but there's not arguing that the offensive line is basically a sieve.

(08-02-2019, 08:38 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: but there's not arguing that the offensive line is basically a sieve.

I can easily argue that it is not a sieve.  Glenn only allowed two sacks from LT last year.

I am not going to argue that we have a good O-line, but it is not the garbage that some people claim.

(08-02-2019, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I can easily argue that it is not a sieve.  Glenn only allowed two sacks from LT last year.

I am not going to argue that we have a good O-line, but it is not the garbage that some people claim.

with the right play calls the line should be able to hold up...   but if as they stand if we are asking for lots of 7 step drops it might be a bad season...

I believe rollouts and such are part of the rams offense which should help keep Dalton clean for a few extra seconds.

(08-01-2019, 08:39 PM)Joelist Wrote: I like that Lou is tending so far towards a more Man scheme as our roster is stacked with secondary players who are far better in man coverage. Shades of when Zim came in and immediately ditched Bresnahan's zone scheme.

We were top 10 in the league last year in the amount of times we ran man, we were a mam defense last year. This weird hate for zone defense around here, and by most NFL fans is funny. The top 5 teams in the amount of zone defense ran last year were Colts, Chargers, Cardinals, Seahawks, Cowboys. Outside of the Cardinals those are four of the top defenses in the NFL last season. 

(08-02-2019, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I can easily argue that it is not a sieve.  Glenn only allowed two sacks from LT last year.

I am not going to argue that we have a good O-line, but it is not the garbage that some people claim.

Sorry dude its trash and has been ranked accordingly, Glenn is steady, Price is a question mark still, and everyone else is clinging on to their professional careers.

I don't have the benefit of prescience and there isn't a crystal ball store in my area, so I'm just gonna have to wait and see the OLine in action before I write them off.

(08-01-2019, 07:15 PM)Synric Wrote: This could be the best defensive line the Bengals have had in a long time.

The defensive line has a lot of talent. I feel good about our pass rush with Lawson, Geno, Dunlap and company. Hopefully Hubbard keeps developing into a 3 down DE he had six sacks last year. Everybody talks about the pass rush improving with Lawson coming back which is great but my concern with the defense in general is their ability to stop the run. We got gashed on the round last year. You need to stop the run when you play in the AFC north. The Ravens added Mark Ingram and have Lamar Jackson. The Browns added Kareem Hunt and have an acceding player in Nick Chubb. Then you have the Steelers with a great O-line and John Connor with another year under his belt. Hopefully with Billings improving and a healthy Glasgow and Preston Brown we will be better at stopping the run.

How has Sample looked? Not hearing much about him...

(07-31-2019, 10:41 PM)whodey365 Wrote: Beth is an automatic skip every time.

I laughed when I read this because my ex is named Beth...and I would agree.

(07-31-2019, 11:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's not the end of the world, but trading up to get the one QB we brought in and having him stink his way out of training camp would be a knock against ZT's GM resume.  I assume if he can hit the broad side of a barn we keep him, though.  Driskell did his best but he's another coach's backup.  Driskel actually starting dispelled any delusions we had that he could be great if only he got a chance.  

To be fair, Driskel had very little around him and a dud OC.  At least the kid has wheels.  His ability to scramble/rush would have me keeping him over Finley right now.  Finley was the only pick I didn't like and that isn't being revisionist.  They could have taken a number of OTs that needed some coaching (or projected as RTs) and been much better off heading in to this season.  

The guy I have always wanted to be our backup and never has seemed to get a real shot with a decent team is Colt McCoy.  

(08-02-2019, 10:35 AM)Au165 Wrote: We were top 10 in the league last year in the amount of times we ran man, we were a mam defense last year. This weird hate for zone defense around here, and by most NFL fans is funny. The top 5 teams in the amount of zone defense ran last year were Colts, Chargers, Cardinals, Seahawks, Cowboys. Outside of the Cardinals those are four of the top defenses in the NFL last season. 

Could it be because zone is what those teams run, and have been running for quite some time?  There's a difference when you draft players that are good zone defenders to plug into your already disciplined unit, and taking a team that has been a man coverage team for years and suddenly asking them to instantly do well in zone.

(08-01-2019, 02:12 PM)McC Wrote: The defense looking good is a good thing.  The better they are, the more margin for error the offense has,  OLines can take a while to gel.

And schematically speaking, I think this offense will be rushing the ball quite a bit, but they appear to be working a lot more of their passing formations and the defense likely knows it. 

I do like ZT's emphasis on WRs finishing their routes and being in the right spots.  The devil is in the details for the offense to be productive, but I would imagine they would be doing a lot more rushing plays if it were an actual game situation. 

(08-01-2019, 04:09 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I can't say I'm exactly thrilled with what I'm reading. Sure, I'm happy the defense is looking better. But is it? Like everyone said, at best, this offensive line MIGHT be average? So, our ends destroying them, doesn't really mean much.

Furthermore, we have clearly identified that Dalton needs help around him. This is from a Dalton supporter. We have two starting receivers injured and three linemen either out or completely gone. This just looks like a recipe for disaster. I really hope we sure up the offensive line. Perhaps, come pre season, we can see what's going on and (maybe) make changes.

FYI on the Bates interception of Dalton:

It was a "sack" essentially, where they are not allowed to hit the QB.  Dalton couldn't step in to the throw because the DE was right on him and he seemed to fling it out of frustration.  The good news is that, supposedly, Malone had a couple steps on WJIII and if the ball was delivered more accurately, it could have been six.  That being said, I know that WJIII has incredible closing speed. 

(08-02-2019, 11:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: To be fair, Driskel had very little around him and a dud OC.  At least the kid has wheels.  His ability to scramble/rush would have me keeping him over Finley right now.  Finley was the only pick I didn't like and that isn't being revisionist.  They could have taken a number of OTs that needed some coaching (or projected as RTs) and been much better off heading in to this season.  

The guy I have always wanted to be our backup and never has seemed to get a real shot with a decent team is Colt McCoy.  

I don't disagree, im just saying people seem to have an easier time picturing a QB being a hidden gem if he hadn't played at all.

Driskell had marvn and lazor and no I line and no WRs so by this board's standards it's amazing he did as well as he did.

(08-02-2019, 12:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Could it be because zone is what those teams run, and have been running for quite some time?  There's a difference when you draft players that are good zone defenders to plug into your already disciplined unit, and taking a team that has been a man coverage team for years and suddenly asking them to instantly do well in zone.

Colts just changed schemes last year to a Tampa 2 along with adding a bunch of new players on defense. This idea that man good/zone bad that gets perpetuated by a lot of fans, not just here,is simply comical because people think zone means you spot drop and cover grass. It highlights people's lack of understanding about matching concepts and checks and how they can work together to make zones a VERY effective option for defense. Man defenses like the patriots/broncos require superb technicians to pull off and it's why when they work they are elite but can quickly go to the bottom as talent declines. 

(08-02-2019, 10:35 AM)Au165 Wrote: We were top 10 in the league last year in the amount of times we ran man, we were a mam defense last year. This weird hate for zone defense around here, and by most NFL fans is funny. The top 5 teams in the amount of zone defense ran last year were Colts, Chargers, Cardinals, Seahawks, Cowboys. Outside of the Cardinals those are four of the top defenses in the NFL last season. 

And outside of the Cardinals, those teams have heavily invested in LBs.  The other part that always seemed to be missing on our defense was an answer to when a team goes max protection.  No pass rush whatsoever.  Opposing QB just pats the ball and waits for an easy checkdown.  Hoping Lou is more aggressive in sending an extra rusher from time to time.  The strength of our defense is the secondary and I think they are much better suited for man defense.