I agree with Fred on this: typically a player makes his biggest jump going from rookie to 2nd season with a good bit showing improvement 2nd to 3rd year. Sure there's some late blooming going on here and there but by far if they ain't got it by year 4 all they're gonna do is be average at best.

Having said that who of our 4th camp players are worth keeping and who needs to be turned lose ? Here's the list:

Trey Hopkins C/G
Keivarae Russel CB
Christian Ringo DE
Andrew Billings DT
Christian Westerman G
Nick Vigil LB
Jeff Driskel QB/WR
Clayton Fejedelem S
Cody Core WR
Alex Erickson WR

I left Boyd and Jackson III for obvious reasons.

I feel our past leadership failed quite a bit in hanging onto guys who just didn't have "it" for to long. I'm hoping the new think tank is better in this area.

(08-14-2019, 09:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree with Fred on this: typically a player makes his biggest jump going from rookie to 2nd season with a good bit showing improvement 2nd to 3rd year. Sure there's some late blooming going on here and there but by far if they ain't got it by year 4 all they're gonna do is be average at best.

Having said that who of our 4th camp players are worth keeping and who needs to be turned lose ? Here's the list:

Trey Hopkins C/G
Keivarae Russel CB
Christian Ringo DE
Andrew Billings DT
Christian Westerman G
Nick Vigil LB
Jeff Driskel QB/WR
Clayton Fejedelem S
Cody Core WR
Alex Erickson WR

I left Boyd and Jackson III for obvious reasons.

I feel our past leadership failed quite a bit in hanging onto guys who just didn't have "it" for to long. I'm hoping the new think tank is better in this area.

I didn't know who Ringo was until he got hurt. No Shit! Some of these guys have not really had a legitimate shot. But, I see a lot of upside in Vigil and Erickson. Vigil did well last year until the injury. Also, to add to you opinion about past leadership, that has probably been the demise of many of these players and it's unfortunate. Our leadership didn't know how to coach up, teach, discipline then trust. A lot of players with great talent came here via the draft that had failed careers. Granted, a lot will not fair well under ZT either, but at least they will get attention and given the ability to show their stuff and learn from their mistakes. They will get a legitimate chance to make or break their own careers.

Marvin was an idiot at player development and so was the rest of the staff. John Ross is a good example, well, maybe a bad one in the same breath. Too many rookies didn't get their shot because of declining players with seniority. 

(08-14-2019, 09:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree with Fred on this: typically a player makes his biggest jump going from rookie to 2nd season with a good bit showing improvement 2nd to 3rd year. Sure there's some late blooming going on here and there but by far if they ain't got it by year 4 all they're gonna do is be average at best.

Having said that who of our 4th camp players are worth keeping and who needs to be turned lose ? Here's the list:

Trey Hopkins C/G
Keivarae Russel CB
Christian Ringo DE
Andrew Billings DT
Christian Westerman G
Nick Vigil LB
Jeff Driskel QB/WR
Clayton Fejedelem S
Cody Core WR
Alex Erickson WR

I left Boyd and Jackson III for obvious reasons.

I feel our past leadership failed quite a bit in hanging onto guys who just didn't have "it" for to long. I'm hoping the new think tank is better in this area.

Yes, it's definitely time to "put up or shut up" for most of those guys.  I could see some of those guys getting cut, to make way for younger talent.  Some others, have been seemingly on the verge of stepping into full time roles, it's time for them to earn that second contract or hit the road, as well.

Here's my pretty much slam dunk keepers:

Erickson - there's just to many question marks at WR and returner to let him go and he has produced in crunch time at WR a good bit.

Vigil - he's at least decent and we're to weak at LBer

Westerman and Hopkins - again we're just to thin and those to have both been decent when called upon.

(08-14-2019, 10:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, it's definitely time to "put up or shut up" for most of those guys.  I could see some of those guys getting cut, to make way for younger talent.  Some others, have been seemingly on the verge of stepping into full time roles, it's time for them to earn that second contract or hit the road, as well.

I'd put Core at the very top of that list.

And a step below guys like Billings and Russell. Are they really worth keeping over others ?

(08-14-2019, 10:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's my pretty much slam dunk keepers:

Erickson - there's just to many question marks at WR and returner to let him go and he has produced in crunch time at WR a good bit.

Vigil - he's at least decent and we're to weak at LBer

Westerman and Hopkins - again we're just to thin and those to have both been decent when called upon.

Yep, those guys. Fejederlam and Billings. The rest?  Meh, not so sure about..

(08-14-2019, 10:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd put Core at the very top of that list.

And a step below guys like Billings and Russell. Are they really worth keeping over others ?

Billings seems to "grade out" much better than he looks on the "eye test".  I still have hope for him, but this is his final year of contract, so he better do something special.

(08-14-2019, 10:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, those guys. Fejederlam and Billings. The rest?  Meh, not so sure about..

See I'm sorta on the fence with Billings. He impressed the crap outta me in preseason last year then sorta disappeared the first 3 or 4 games to start last season. To be fair he did improve a lot to finish the season. But is he really good enough to shove all other options, if any out ?

Fedj I wanna keep but what is his injury ?

(08-14-2019, 10:32 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: See I'm sorta on the fence with Billings. He impressed the crap outta me in preseason last year then sorta disappeared the first 3 or 4 games to start last season. To be fair he did improve a lot to finish the season. But is he really good enough to shove all other options, if any out ?

Fedj I wanna keep but what is his injury ?

Seeing how he took the walking boot off at practice yesterday, I'm guessing mild ankle sprain.

And then the elephant in the room - Driskel

Is it really worth it to burn a roster spot on a gadget player ? You have to have special teamers so if he can do that well, I suppose.

(08-14-2019, 10:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Billings seems to "grade out" much better than he looks on the "eye test".  I still have hope for him, but this is his final year of contract, so he better do something special.

What he needs to be is a wall that nobody can run through.  

(08-14-2019, 10:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's my pretty much slam dunk keepers:

Erickson - there's just to many question marks at WR and returner to let him go and he has produced in crunch time at WR a good bit.

Vigil - he's at least decent and we're to weak at LBer

Westerman and Hopkins - again we're just to thin and those to have both been decent when called upon.

(08-14-2019, 10:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, those guys. Fejederlam and Billings. The rest?  Meh, not so sure about..

IDK about Westerman.... we've only seen bits and pieces. The rest you guys name would be my picks. Especially Trey Hopkins. He's a good backup, and a Swiss Army knife. Good guy to have around. The rest can hit the bricks.

(08-14-2019, 10:43 PM)McC Wrote: What he needs to be is a wall that nobody can run through.  

Right

I'm no stat nut, I'd say it's out there,  but it seemed we got burnt with a lot of big runs up the gut last year.

(08-14-2019, 10:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: IDK about Westerman.... we've only seen bits and pieces. The rest you guys name would be my picks. Especially Trey Hopkins. He's a good backup, and a Swiss Army knife. Good guy to have around. The rest can hit the bricks.

I was typing Westerman in the slam dunks with hesitation. I just panic a bit about the O-line 

If Jordan makes the rookie leap Westerman may be the odd guy out ?

I think Westerman, Russle, and Driskel are gone this year. Ringo, I am not certain. I like his name because I had a cat named Ringo.

Bottom line

I just wanna see the best guys make the team over the coach favorites, good old boys, locker room leaders, owner intervention and so on.

And I'm not so sure that's always been the case in seasons past.

(08-14-2019, 10:58 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think Westerman, Russle, and Driskel are gone this year.  Ringo, I am not certain.  I like his name because I had a cat named Ringo.

Did he play the drums ?

(08-14-2019, 10:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was typing Westerman in the slam dunks with hesitation. I just panic a bit about the O-line 

If Jordan makes the rookie leap Westerman may be the odd guy out ?

Could be, and I totally understand you putting him there. Maybe I would too, if we had seen enough of him. Truth is, I really don't know what to think of him. You're right about the o line panic too. I guess you could call me on the fence on that one. The rest? They're bums if you ask me....even though Ringo had a couple good games at the end of last season. I'm SO tired of hearing how valuable Cody Core is on special teams. Stats paint a different picture....and offensive stats say he's a turd.

(08-14-2019, 11:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Did he play the drums ?

Ringo was a small calico kitten I found along the side of the road, abandoned.  She was a little buzzard; terrorized the other cats but loved me to death.  So I hope Ringo makes the team.  Long Live Ringo!

(08-14-2019, 11:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Could be, and I totally understand you putting him there. Maybe I would too, if we had seen enough of him. Truth is, I really don't know what to think of him. You're right about the o line panic too. I guess you could call me on the fence on that one. The rest? They're bums if you ask me....even though Ringo had a couple good games at the end of last season. I'm SO tired of hearing how valuable Cody Core is on special teams. Stats paint a different picture....and offensive stats say he's a turd.

I think the locker room leaders drum gets beat a bit to much around here as well ! Sure you need leaders. But when a guy is now running a 5.9 forty, hasn't had a sack or even pressure in weeks, couldn't cover a fire hydrant, has a couple dozen look out blocks, couldn't catch a cold and so on. Does this locker room presence really counter their ability to contribute on the field ?