(08-19-2019, 09:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly...Ross should have NEVER been a Top 10 pick. I read a lot of 2nd Round things about him.

The Bengals got cute and went for the shock factor and went with the guy that broke the combine record...and it backfired bigtime.

Now, IF they hit on Ced and some of the other picks...this isn't as big of a deal, but they haven't.

I doubt they cut him, but there were rumors that they were trying to trade him that got denied. Then, you got guys like Tate and Willis that look like they deserve roster spots. Do you just give Ross a spot without earning it and cut a guy that's working hard?

An Al Davis type of pick, for sure..

(08-19-2019, 04:28 PM)McC Wrote: This is a perfect example of the nonsense factor.  You say multiple times but then turn around and say Marvin called him out on ONE. 

Seems to me you'd have to know what route he was supposed to run to know if he ran the right one and I have never really seen any way that anyone on this board would have that information.

If he's so bad and there's so much to actually criticize him about, why do people have to keep inventing shit to use against him?

Marvin called him out for quitting on a route. Only time I can remember Marvin calling out a player like that in the media. Here's the link:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/11/15/cincinnati-bengals-coach-marvin-lewis-john-ross-let-his-teammates-down/867194001/

If you think he runs his routes correctly, then there's nothing I can say that will get you to actually look at it. I don't care.

If that's all you can find in what I say about his stats and production to disagree with then, really you should be wondering about this guy and how much is really going to help this team.

I've never said we should cut him.

(08-19-2019, 09:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I doubt they cut him, but there were rumors that they were trying to trade him that got denied. Then, you got guys like Tate and Willis that look like they deserve roster spots. Do you just give Ross a spot without earning it and cut a guy that's working hard?

People got on marvin for not holding players accountable so maybe they would want Ross out 

(08-19-2019, 09:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly...Ross should have NEVER been a Top 10 pick. I read a lot of 2nd Round things about him.

The Bengals got cute and went for the shock factor and went with the guy that broke the combine record...and it backfired bigtime.

Now, IF they hit on Ced and some of the other picks...this isn't as big of a deal, but they haven't.

I doubt they cut him, but there were rumors that they were trying to trade him that got denied. Then, you got guys like Tate and Willis that look like they deserve roster spots. Do you just give Ross a spot without earning it and cut a guy that's working hard?

He was seen as a late 1st/early 2nd precombine.  He obviously blew up from his 40 time, but part of his rise was from people going back and rewatching the tape and seeing his short area quickness.

I don't think it was a shock value pick at all.  It was pretty much status quo for the Bengals.  We often use 1st rounders to get out ahead of aging players and/or expiring contracts.  Boyd was ok as a #3 the year prior, but was nothing special.  LaFell was a mediocre #2.  AJ, of course, was no spring chicken.  Nobody else had really shown much.

There are tons of bubble guys who work hard.  You keep your best players.  Are you going to cut Dennard so you can keep McRae or Anderson to keep Ellis?  Tate and Willis will be lucky to get you 7 TD's  combined this upcoming regular season.  Regardless of his shortcomings between the 20's, you don't cut a WR with 7 TD's because a minor injury is keeping him out of preseason.

(08-19-2019, 10:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: An Al Davis type of pick, for sure..

Ala Darius Heyward-Bey.

(08-19-2019, 10:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People got on marvin for not holding players accountable so maybe they would want Ross out 

Honestly, IF he were a 6th or 7th Round pick...they'd likely cut him. The only thing keeping him here is his draft status.

(08-19-2019, 10:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was seen as a late 1st/early 2nd precombine.  He obviously blew up from his 40 time, but part of his rise was from people going back and rewatching the tape and seeing his short area quickness.

I don't think it was a shock value pick at all.  It was pretty much status quo for the Bengals.  We often use 1st rounders to get out ahead of aging players and/or expiring contracts.  Boyd was ok as a #3 the year prior, but was nothing special.  LaFell was a mediocre #2.  AJ, of course, was no spring chicken.  Nobody else had really shown much.

There are tons of bubble guys who work hard.  You keep your best players.  Are you going to cut Dennard so you can keep McRae or Anderson to keep Ellis?  Tate and Willis will be lucky to get you 7 TD's  combined this upcoming regular season.  Regardless of his shortcomings between the 20's, you don't cut a WR with 7 TD's
because a minor injury is keeping him out of preseason.

Well here's a link from the NFL Network right before the draft talking about how some teams totally took him off their draft boards and why he was falling down others. Doesn't seem to jive with teams rewatching his tape and moving him up.

They saw his combine number and started to look at him and saw a guy with A LOT of injuries.

"There are some teams that have pushed him either down their boards or off their boards because of injuries," Mayock said. "He's had surgery on his shoulder, he's had surgery on both knees, and he's got a small frame. So the durability is a big issue with him right now."


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000801732/Mayock-Some-teams-have-taken-Ross-off-draft-boards

This from a team that drafted Ced after he just had major surgery. Not many teams do that repeatedly.

(08-19-2019, 11:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, IF he were a 6th or 7th Round pick...they'd likely cut him. The only thing keeping him here is his draft status.

It's the cap hit more than the draft status. The new staff might think they can do something with him too...

Actually... I can't think of a good reason to cut him.

(08-19-2019, 10:41 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Marvin called him out for quitting on a route. Only time I can remember Marvin calling out a player like that in the media. Here's the link:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/11/15/cincinnati-bengals-coach-marvin-lewis-john-ross-let-his-teammates-down/867194001/

If you think he runs his routes correctly, then there's nothing I can say that will get you to actually look at it. I don't care.

If that's all you can find in what I say about his stats and production to disagree with then, really you should be wondering about this guy and how much is really going to help this team.

I've never said we should cut him.

The point is how the **** would I know without knowing what he was supposed to do?

(08-19-2019, 09:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. His salary is HUGE and the Redskins would want decent compensation. And the kicker...it's not like he's some elite lineman any more. He's maybe above average AND he gets hurt.

He played 13 games last year. 10 the year before. 12 the year before that. 14 the year before that.

For all intents and purposes the guy is Cordy Glenn.

Plus, there's a good chance that our draft picks will be really high this year.

Agree on Williams he's older and injury prone. I don't think this team is close to being a contender keep the draft picks and continue to get younger and maybe rebuild if you decide not to extend Dalton. Jonah Williams is the left tackle going forward, then you have Price on a rookie deal and maybe Micheal Jordan develops into a good LG. If Hart's a disaster this season I would keep an eye on next years free agent tackles like Jack Conklin and La'el Collins there both young and have upside. Conklin was an all pro his rookie year for Tennessee and had a good 2nd year but has been battling injuries the last two seasons and the Titans didn't pick up his 5th year option. If Conlkin has a bounce back year maybe we could sign him. The Titans just signed Taylor Lewan has the highest paid offensive lineman in history and they might not have enough money to sign Conklin.  I doubt the Cowboys will have the money to pay Collins considering they have to pay Prescott, Copper and Elliott. Plus they have a ton of money tied up on there offensive line with, Smith, Martin and Frederick's making big money. 

(08-19-2019, 11:08 PM)jason Wrote: It's the cap hit more than the draft status. The new staff might think they can do something with him too...

Actually... I can't think of a good reason to cut him.

He'll get playing time right off the bat.  And he'll get the ball right off the bat.  But if he doesn't produce, he won't play.  They have to see if he can do anything and then carry on accordingly.  It's been said many times by the coaches--the best guys play.

He'll certainly get a roster spot.  If he was fighting for a roster spot, he'd be out there playing.  Nobody'd be too worried about being cautious with him.  But I don't think he'll be handed any more than that.  They seem to have a better situation at wideout than last year, so it isn't so crushing if he is no more than an occasional weapon.

(08-19-2019, 09:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly...Ross should have NEVER been a Top 10 pick. I read a lot of 2nd Round things about him.

The Bengals got cute and went for the shock factor and went with the guy that broke the combine record...and it backfired bigtime.

Now, IF they hit on Ced and some of the other picks...this isn't as big of a deal, but they haven't.

I doubt they cut him, but there were rumors that they were trying to trade him that got denied. Then, you got guys like Tate and Willis that look like they deserve roster spots. Do you just give Ross a spot without earning it and cut a guy that's working hard?

Nope. I play the guys that are out there producing. He will have to get out there sometime and then we will see what he can do in this offense. 

If what he can do is get hurt every other catch, then he stays down on the depth chart until you don't have to pay him any more then say sayonara. 

(08-19-2019, 11:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well here's a link from the NFL Network right before the draft talking about how some teams totally took him off their draft boards and why he was falling down others. Doesn't seem to jive with teams rewatching his tape and moving him up.

They saw his combine number and started to look at him and saw a guy with A LOT of injuries.

"There are some teams that have pushed him either down their boards or off their boards because of injuries," Mayock said. "He's had surgery on his shoulder, he's had surgery on both knees, and he's got a small frame. So the durability is a big issue with him right now."


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000801732/Mayock-Some-teams-have-taken-Ross-off-draft-boards

This from a team that drafted Ced after he just had major surgery. Not many teams do that repeatedly.

Some teams dropping or even taking him off their boards isn't even a majority.  Every team's board is different.  Teams also spread misinformation hoping to get guys to fall.

The same guy you're citing also had Ross as his #2 WR right before the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802993/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-40

(08-19-2019, 11:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nope. I play the guys that are out there producing. He will have to get out there sometime and then we will see what he can do in this offense. 

If what he can do is get hurt every other catch, then he stays down on the depth chart until you don't have to pay him any more then say sayonara. 

I think the worst case scenario is he makes a helluva decoy to keep safeties occupied  and you get plays from him from time to time.  It's hard to picture him ever being a full time player but that doesn't mean he has nothing to give.  We'll find out in Seattle.  

But if you're gonna throw deep passes to him, maybe try throwing one that's catchable for a change.

(08-19-2019, 11:50 PM)McC Wrote: He'll get playing time right off the bat.  And he'll get the ball right off the bat.  But if he doesn't produce, he won't play.  They have to see if he can do anything and then carry on accordingly.  It's been said many times by the coaches--the best guys play.

He'll certainly get a roster spot.  If he was fighting for a roster spot, he'd be out there playing.  Nobody'd be too worried about being cautious with him.  But I don't think he'll be handed any more than that.  They seem to have a better situation at wideout than last year, so it isn't so crushing if he is no more than an occasional weapon.

Honestly, he's going to have to practice at some point in the preseason to play in the games.

Not a good sign that he keeps hurting his hamstring.

(08-20-2019, 12:15 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, he's going to have to practice at some point in the preseason to play in the games.

Not a good sign that he keeps hurting his hamstring.

Just because he won't play in the preseason, that doesn't mean he won't practice.

(08-19-2019, 11:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, IF he were a 6th or 7th Round pick...they'd likely cut him. The only thing keeping him here is his draft status.

Core has never had more than 200 yards receiving or 1 TD in a season.  He's still on the team.

Josh Malone has 75 career receiving yards and 1 TD.  He's still on the team.

Auden Tate has 35 career receiving yards and no TD's.  He's still on the team.

Alex Erickson has never had more than 180 receiving yards in a season, nor more than 1 TD.  He's still on the team, although he is the primary return man if we're being fair.

As much of a disappointment as he's been, nobody behind him has been able to take his job.  If you were going to entertain the thought of cutting the guy, you can't do it unless someone grabs that #3 job by the throat.  Nobody has.  

You don't cut a guy on a rookie deal with 7 receiving TD's, whether he's a #1 overall pick or an UDFA.  If you give Auden Tate Ross's stat line from last year, people would be screaming for him to start.  

(08-20-2019, 12:17 AM)McC Wrote: Just because he won't play in the preseason, that doesn't mean he won't practice.

Well...he hasn't practiced yet. Reports from OTA's were that he wasn't doing good there.

Can he learn an offense and get reps in a week or two?

He supposedly had issues learning the offense in years past and had to think too much out there.

I don't know...but I'd say that none of this is good signs for him having a breakout year.

Generally in life what you see is people speculate that people are held down. Then new management come sin and things shuffle and people get opportunities and it settles out to be similar to previous management.

What are we seeing here? Westerman talking retirement because he looks beat out. Ross not practicing. Glenn dinged up despite the team going lite in practice. Injured 1st Round pick. Critical injury to AJ Green.

Sprinkle in Boling retiring.

Seems to be the same as it was under Marvin.

"This from a team that drafted Ced after he just had major surgery. Not many teams do that repeatedly. "

Pistons I can just hear Mike Brown- "Anthony had major knee surgery right before we drafted him...….look how that turned out Pumpkin...…..draft him anyway"

(08-19-2019, 11:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nope. I play the guys that are out there producing. He will have to get out there sometime and then we will see what he can do in this offense. 

Exactly. Seahawks did that with Russell Wilson and that worked out for them. Not says playing someone else at WR gets the Bengals rings, but when you view ability over draft position/salary good things can happen. See the teams the have won the Super Bowl; what do you think they would do?