I’ve never seen a team where the fans get so excited and satisfied about a loss. You have to do more negative things than positive things to lose the game. The participation trophy concept is running wild on this board. Yes, there were some good things that happened but until it translates into wins then why should expectations change? If they can win like 2 of the next 3 games then I will feel justified to change my expectations. I expected to lose the first game and yep, they did. Feeling good about a loss isn’t a winning mentality. Being pissed and having high expectations are what I hope this coach and players are doing this week. They didn’t lose by 30 but 0-1 is 0-1. They aren’t below the Steelers and Browns in the standings. I’ve burnt my “look on the bright side” after a loss a long time ago.

(09-12-2019, 06:55 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I’ve never seen a team where the fans get so excited and satisfied about a loss. You have to do more negative things than positive things to lose the game. The participation trophy concept is running wild on this board. Yes, there were some good things that happened but until it translates into wins then why should expectations change? If they can win like 2 of the next 3 games then I will feel justified to change my expectations.  I expected to lose the first game and yep, they did. Feeling good about a loss isn’t a winning mentality. Being pissed and having high expectations are what I hope this coach and players are doing this week. They didn’t lose by 30 but 0-1 is 0-1. They aren’t below the Steelers and Browns in the standings. I’ve burnt my “look on the bright side” after a loss a long time ago.

That game was right there for the taking and a few better play calls or better execution and we win. Reminds me of the 90's some where we'd play teams close then lose the opener.

But, the defense did play VERY well.

One game is such a small sample size. Seattle doesn't really blow many teams out either. They kind of play you close and just win too. But, we did dominate statistically.

The bar is very low here for success.

The easiest way to explain my new feelings are to say I feel like a Browns fan on draft day. I now have hope.

(09-12-2019, 07:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That game was right there for the taking and a few better play calls or better execution and we win. Reminds me of the 90's some where we'd play teams close then lose the opener.

But, the defense did play VERY well.

One game is such a small sample size. Seattle doesn't really blow many teams out either. They kind of play you close and just win too. But, we did dominate statistically.

The bar is very low here for success.

I do understand acknowledging that there were things to be happy about and that the team doesn’t look as far off as many of us thought but Wins and Losses are the bottom line.

You can’t make expectations of this team until about game 6. Because we have an annoying habit to start got and then turn to dog shit

(09-12-2019, 06:55 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I’ve never seen a team where the fans get so excited and satisfied about a loss. You have to do more negative things than positive things to lose the game. The participation trophy concept is running wild on this board. Yes, there were some good things that happened but until it translates into wins then why should expectations change? If they can win like 2 of the next 3 games then I will feel justified to change my expectations.  I expected to lose the first game and yep, they did. Feeling good about a loss isn’t a winning mentality. Being pissed and having high expectations are what I hope this coach and players are doing this week. They didn’t lose by 30 but 0-1 is 0-1. They aren’t below the Steelers and Browns in the standings. I’ve burnt my “look on the bright side” after a loss a long time ago.

Actually people can better analyze the abilities of a team by analyzing all the stats than just looking at the final score.  No one making a line in Vegas just looks at the final score.  No media analyst just looks at the final score.  Pretty much everyone except you takes an in depth look at the stats to determine which teams are better.  


Right now you are the only person who thinks the 1-0 Bills are a better team than the 0-1 Texans.

(09-12-2019, 06:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Sam Wyche started off 0-5 in his first year. Marv started off 0-3 and got blown out at home in his first game, against the Broncos. Bengals were 7-9 and 2-14, repsectively the previous years. 

Both ended up finishing 8-8 in their first year. Wyche was in the SB in his 5th year, 10-6 and just missed the playoffs in his 3rd year. Marv had a SB contending team in his 3rd year. 

Were their slow starts reminiscent of previous teams or predictive of what they would become? Point is, you can't hold a new coach accountable for what the previous team(s) did. And you can't expect them to turn a team around 180 degrees the first year. 

Hell, wunderkind McVay only started off 3-2 his first year and he had a #1 overall pick at QB and Gurley from the get. 

Well, yeah...their slow starts were reminiscent of previous seasons as they reflected the previous seasons in that they weren't that great, hence reminded you of similarities to previous losing seasons.

Maybe Taylor can change the culture, maybe he can't. The question was to give your personal feel for if you've seen enough to impact your evaluation the rest of the season. Me personally, I haven't. Not saying we looked bad but yes, sorry, I was reminded of too many times when we had the better team etc. and still made just enough key mistakes and the other team made just enough great plays to put one in the L column.

Is what it is my friend. I personally like what ZT has done thus far, but one game, especially a loss, is not enough to sway me yet. Its my opinion, and you obviously disagree. Good thing we don't all have to share the same opinion on here.

I went into that game not knowing what to expect. But I was pleasantly surprised with the energy the team played with. They never seem lost or discouraged. It has changed my expectations. But I still don't think that we will make the playoffs. I just don't think we have enough depth to recover from the inevitable injuries.

(09-13-2019, 12:54 PM)R3stangs Wrote: Well, yeah...their slow starts were reminiscent of previous seasons as they reflected the previous seasons in that they weren't that great, hence reminded you of similarities to previous losing seasons.

Maybe Taylor can change the culture, maybe he can't. The question was to give your personal feel for if you've seen enough to impact your evaluation the rest of the season. Me personally, I haven't. Not saying we looked bad but yes, sorry, I was reminded of too many times when we had the better team etc. and still made just enough key mistakes and the other team made just enough great plays to put one in the L column.

Is what it is my friend. I personally like what ZT has done thus far, but one game, especially a loss, is not enough to sway me yet. Its my opinion, and you obviously disagree. Good thing we don't all have to share the same opinion on here.

I'm just sayin', it's not fair to fall into the "same ole same ole" argument. He has to play with, largely, the same team as the year before and like the coaches that were mentioned, it's going to take some time to turn around a team that's had 3 straight losing seasons. 

At this point, the only thing you can really look at is effort and scheme and decide if that looks different or the same and you can definitely use that as a barometer of what's to come--or what's to be expected. The game in Seattle has me believing they should win at leas the next two, give Pitt a run for their money and then come back with a win against Arizona. So a 3-2 and possibly 4-1 record doesn't seem improbable.

If they had come out and played defense like last year, had no running game and Dalton threw for 250 or so and they lost by 14+, i'd be "yeeesh, long year ahead". 

But, even though they did lose, they showed some promise of better things to come. 

Of course, if they lose to SF at home...the gloves come off!! 

(09-12-2019, 09:09 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: The easiest way to explain my new feelings are to say I feel like a Browns fan on draft day. I now have hope.

You win.  

I am still at six wins. We played well Sunday but the really good teams don’t out play the opponents and walk away with a loss. They find a way to win. We are not there. Russel Wilson did what he needed to win. Stats be dam. Mad plays when needed. We don’t have that player yet. Better yet have not identify them yet. And Andy is not the guy. Yes he had great numbers On paper looked good. But could not make that one play to take us over the top. Who day. Excited about Sunday that is one of my wins.

(09-12-2019, 07:31 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: A rookie coach and coaching staff meant we entered this season with a high degree of unpredictability. We just didn't know what to expect. We've now had a taster and the coach and his schemes so how has that additional evidence changed your expectations of what to now expect this year?

For those of you predicting 5 or 6 win seasons have you revised your win expectations upwards?

For those that were predicting 9 or 10 win seasons have you revised your win expectation downwards now we've dropped a game you maybe had as a win?

Good thread idea

Still, unless you were hoping 16-0, I don't see how it changes much.  Oh, I'll say that I was hoping Bengals didn't look awful and they could have At Seattle.   I could say they looked better than I thought.  I could say they controlled the 1st quarter and then the Erickson punt fumble changed all that.  Still, I saw a lot that I liked.  However if they come out and stink up the place against 49ers, they go backwards. 

So I'm still in a wait and see, but Hopeful Mode.  I know it's NEW DEY,  first new head coach in decades. I know the team stunk last few years.  I know the team didn't have very many good players the last few years.  A combination of bad players and bad coaching led to the bad seasons last 2 or 3 years.  I know that if other fans don't.  So team has new coaches and has made some players moves.  On the O Line alone top picks Ogbuhei and Fisher are gone and Price is on the bench to start the season.  They moved on from Bufict soap opera. 

So for me it's way too early to have an opinion on NEW DEY, other than NEW DEY was needed.  I saw that when Browns fired Hue Stinks and Marvin brought him right back. Some fans wanting Hue to be coach although he was so awful in Cleveland was Rock Bottom. How awful the team was last 3 years and getting worse with each game on a downhill slide.  So NEW DEY was needed.  Now it's just giving the new coach some time, because this team didn't get awful over night, and it probably won't get better over night.  Think of the Bengals as a car in a ditch.  You can cry about it, or you can tow the car out, fix the repairs, and try to keep it on the road once you get it back on the road.  

I'm hoping for a win Sunday.  It would hurt if they look awful.  Still, I will blame some of it on Mike Brown and Marvin driving the team into the ditch and Taylor still trying to get it out of the ditch and make some repairs to get it back on the road.  Because this team was bad, the coaches, the players, this team was bad and very much a last place team.  Only a couple players had a good season last year, but the majority of the team was just awful.  I admit how awful the team was.  So bad, I couldn't watch them and that has only happened to me in BUNGLES years of some of 1990's and early 2000's and some of Homer Rice era of late 70's.  So there is much rebuilding to be done.   

I am hoping NEW DEY gets it's first win Sunday we all don't have to wait weeks and weeks for that.  So my Mood stays on Hopeful.  I thought Bengals looked better last week than in 2018.  Now go get a Win in Home Opener.  I will add that even though Bengals only won about 6 games Forrest Gregg first year, I saw a difference from Homer Rice team. Gregg had them blocking and tackling much better and it set up the next years Super Bowl team. You lay the ground work and you get good draft picks like Munoz and Collinsworth. Bengals 2019 is a rebuild and I am Hopeful that they can lay the bricks for a good Roaring 20's by Bengals.

Bengals have just been awful on #1 draft picks which is part of the losing, but I'm hopeful Ross and Jackson do start earning the high picks. Riding the pines may help Price. He had bad rookie injury as did Ross, Jackson & most Bengal Top Picks, and is still kind of a rookie, so I'm hoping he can play Center or Guard someday. Coach Urban Meyer said he was one of best players he ever had as a coach, so I'm holding out hope that it was just the injury that has him a year off pace, plus 2 head coaches for him in the first 17 months he has been in NFL, plus the bad rookie injury. So if Ross, Jackson and maybe even Price someday end up looking like not so awful picks, that would help. I'm Hopeful.

I predicted 6-10. Might be more of a 7-9 team now, possibly 8-8 if the Browns aren't as advertised.

Taylor needs to stop playing for FGs.

I thought we would be 4th in the division. After watching how the Browns will still be the Browns, and the Steelers look like junk (even if against NE), I'd say we can make wild card if we win the next game. If we lose against the niners we will likely not make the playoffs and thinking 3rd place in division, depending if AJ Green can come back, stay healthy, and make a large impact.

I don't remember the last time I felt like "we should have won that game" after a Bengals game. We either barely win or have no business winning our losses. We should have beaten Seattle. We usually look at penalties, turnovers, etc. We seemed to overcome everything but just "didn't win". That's the difference between being the Browns and any other playoff team.

Hopefully Mixon can actually do something with offensive line, he seemed a little tentative before the ankle injury. We can't trust Andy for 400 yards a game, won't happen.

(09-14-2019, 08:26 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I thought we would be 4th in the division. After watching how the Browns will still be the Browns, and the Steelers look like junk (even if against NE), I'd say we can make wild card if we win the next game. If we lose against the niners we will likely not make the playoffs and thinking 3rd place in division, depending if AJ Green can come back, stay healthy, and make a large impact.

I don't remember the last time I felt like "we should have won that game" after a Bengals game. We either barely win or have no business winning our losses. We should have beaten Seattle. We usually look at penalties, turnovers, etc. We seemed to overcome everything but just "didn't win". That's the difference between being the Browns and any other playoff team.

The home game against Pittsburgh last season.

The proof is in the pudding tomorrow. Seattle had some close wins at home last year against teams like the Cardinals. We should win tomorrow IF we are improved and to make the playoffs, we need to beat teams like the 49ers that should be 50/50 games.

(09-12-2019, 07:31 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: A rookie coach and coaching staff meant we entered this season with a high degree of unpredictability. We just didn't know what to expect. We've now had a taster and the coach and his schemes so how has that additional evidence changed your expectations of what to now expect this year?

For those of you predicting 5 or 6 win seasons have you revised your win expectations upwards?

For those that were predicting 9 or 10 win seasons have you revised your win expectation downwards now we've dropped a game you maybe had as a win?

I have no real expectations at this point. Waiting till after we play Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Do we shake that Pittsburgh blues? Do we continue to have a step up on Baltimore?

 

(09-14-2019, 10:00 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The proof is in the pudding tomorrow. Seattle had some close wins at home last year against teams like the Cardinals. We should win tomorrow IF we are improved and to make the playoffs, we need to beat teams like the 49ers that should be 50/50 games.

Completely agree, hesitant to crown ZT the new king in the North. However, a good showing tomorrow will really throw the momentum in the right direction.

(09-13-2019, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually people can better analyze the abilities of a team by analyzing all the stats than just looking at the final score.  No one making a line in Vegas just looks at the final score.  No media analyst just looks at the final score.  Pretty much everyone except you takes an in depth look at the stats to determine which teams are better.  


Right now you are the only person who thinks the 1-0 Bills are a better team than the 0-1 Texans.

Stats do matter but if you lose the game then those stats weren’t good enough! I’ll take the team with the most points at the end of the game and you take the team with the most yards. Stats are obviously important but for me those stats need to translate to wins before I get excited. Some people are content with less, you must be one of those people. I didn’t mention the Bills or the Texans, you like to put words in other people’s mouth to try to prove a point. All I’m saying is almost winning is still losing and it just doesn’t excite me.

Maybe taylor can take something from belichick, and play differently every game, play to the other team's weakness. If Andy has to throw 400, then he throws 400. If Mixon has to run for 150, then he needs to run for 150.

It seemed like it was true in that first game, SEA took away the run and wanted Andy to beat them. I don't think Marvin would have had a game plan like this, Marvin's gameplan seemed like it was the same every game. We have AJ Green, throw him the bawl 10 times if possible.

That being said, we still only had 3 points in the 2nd half, lol...the other things NE does well, I think (other than cheat) is make adjustments during the game, during drives. I think M. Lewis struggled big time with that (we must have a record 8 or 9 3 and outs in a row, one game).

I thikn the feeling of "we should have won" is because we did play better, SEA snuck a win out because of some boneheaded/uncontrollable plays and missed FG on our part. Our coaching did seem better than normal.