The total lack of Blocking & Tackling in Game 2 shows the uphill struggle New Dey has to overcome & how much Mike Brown & Marvin Lewis drove this team into the ground in Last Place. Nobody said the climb out of Last Place would be easy, or at least they shouldn't have said it. Coach Taylor coming in February of this year took over a team with NO BLOCKING and NO DEFENSE and a pretty AWFUL TEAM. There is no Magic Wand to turn all that into Instant Play-Offs. It will take more than one year of rebuilding for any coach they would have hired and more than one Draft. Include Bengals still have Front Office of Tobin and Mike Brown where the real blame for how this team got so bad should fall. Mike Brown who refused to pay Zeitler and Whitworth who is still lining up playing great for The Rams. Mike Brown, the cheapest nickle & dime owner in the NFL and since his dad Paul Brown died has led the team to 3 decades without a play-off win in his cheapness.

We have to know Coach Taylor took over one of the worst teams in the NFL. To say different is denial.

We have to know this awful team could not be fixed in a few months time.

Mike Brown & Family & Tobin, all in all they are only bricks in the wall. Mikes 3 decades of futility since his Hall Of Fame Dad died shows the apple fell too far from the tree.

So what looks to be a pretty good 49ers team came in and just clobbered the Bengals in the Home Opener. Considering how awful the Bengals were at seasons end with Marvin and even bringing in Browns loser Hue on the sidelines, getting clobbered in the Home Opener is logical. New Dey will take much more time.

The awful O Line and total lack of talent on the O Line. Players on Defense still out of position leaving receivers go uncovered for easy wide open touchdown catches. The lack of talent by some left over starters on defense. What we saw in 2017 and 2018 is what we saw in The Home Opener because there is no Magic Wand. Anybody that thought any coach could come in here and turn these Losers into Instant Play-Offs were delusional and time to put down the pipe and pipe dreams.

There will be no Instant Fix to the Mike & Marvin Mess. The question is, are you in for the long haul of the rebuild that will take time or not. I've stuck it out good & bad with this team since 1968, mostly bad. This is my team, more than Ohio State this is my team. I don't care much for college ball. I will stick with New Dey. I'm not all that surprised at the bad start considering what a gawd awful no talent team Mike & Marvin handed over to the new coach.

No Blocking and No Tackling is what Mike & Marvin handed over to the new coach, and it is silly to think that those huge problems could be fixed in time for the Home Opener. The New Dey rebuild is something ownership has to be committed to on the long term of years with the new coach, not a few games.

GO BENGALS.....NEW DEY.....adjust, adapt, just try to fix some of this mess this season, it's a mighty hard climb up and will take time. The problem is finding blocking during season probably not possible. Plus Mike Brown from Max Montoya to Zeitler & Whitworth has said for 3 decades, " Why should I pay for Blocking ? " That should go on his tombstone some day for how he took his Hall Of Fame Daddy's Team and drove it into 3 decades of losing. " Why Should I Pay For Blocking ? .

I just hope they draft nothing but offensive line, defensive line, and LB. Nothing. I don't care if the next AJ Green is there. I don't care if the next Mahommes is there. None of the so-called skill positions will do crap until those units improve. Look at Indy and how they are playing. Too bad that former GM didn't do it sooner for Luck's sake.

(09-16-2019, 08:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I just hope they draft nothing but offensive line, defensive line, and LB.  Nothing.  I don't care if the next AJ Green is there.  I don't care if the next Mahommes is there.  None of the so-called skill positions will do crap until those units improve.  Look at Indy and how they are playing.  Too bad that former GM didn't do it sooner for Luck's sake.

I agree with the trenches approach but Taylor needs to get his guy at QB and I don't think Dalton is his guy for the future.  

(09-16-2019, 08:41 AM)kevin Wrote:  Plus Mike Brown from Max Montoya to Zeitler & Whitworth has said for 3 decades, " Why should I pay for Blocking ? "   That should go on his tombstone some day for how he took his Hall Of Fame Daddy's Team and drove it into 3 decades of losing. " Why Should I Pay For Blocking ? .

This BS is getting ridiculous.

Mike Brown Made Levi Jones and Willie Anderson the highest paid OT duo in the league.  he gave Bobbie Williams multiple contracts.  He paid Whitworth very well until he was 35 at which point most teams in the league would ahve done the same thing he did.  He traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league last year.  

He has let a total of 3 good O-linemen leave in free agency in the last 30 years.  So please stop with this silly lie about how he won't pay for O-line.

(09-16-2019, 08:51 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree with the trenches approach but Taylor needs to get his guy at QB and I don't think Dalton is his guy for the future.  

Based on what?  The stupid fans that blame him for everything?  Has Dalton EVER had a rushing attack like Jimmy G had today?  Even once in his career?  Has he ever had a really good offensive line?  One season he did and was on pace to be NFL MVP.  A mobile QB behind that line would just get pounded.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  

It is probably hardest to get your QB over anything.  I would MUCH rather spend that money, draft picks, etc on building the lines and get better, faster LBs. 

(09-16-2019, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Based on what?  The stupid fans that blame him for everything?  Has Dalton EVER had a rushing attack like Jimmy G had today?  Even once in his career?  Has he ever had a really good offensive line?  One season he did and was on pace to be NFL MVP.  A mobile QB behind that line would just get pounded.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  

It is probably hardest to get your QB over anything.  I would MUCH rather spend that money, draft picks, etc on building the lines and get better, faster LBs. 

You must have just started watching the Bengals in 2015.

The answer to your questions about the line and rushing attack are YES & YES. See, people just had different excuses for him those years.

Keep having faith in AD based on 1 season he's had out of 9, though. The tantrums defending him have become adorable. Child like, even.

2015 is an arbitration at this point. A statistical anomaly. 1 event out of 9 tries = possible. Not probable. Grow up.

(09-16-2019, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Based on what?  The stupid fans that blame him for everything?  Has Dalton EVER had a rushing attack like Jimmy G had today?  Even once in his career?  Has he ever had a really good offensive line?  One season he did and was on pace to be NFL MVP.  A mobile QB behind that line would just get pounded.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  

It is probably hardest to get your QB over anything.  I would MUCH rather spend that money, draft picks, etc on building the lines and get better, faster LBs. 

A couple things about Dalton.  First, he has two years left on a rather team friendly deal.  I think his next contract will be expensive.  Second, Dalton made several bad throws and decisions in game 2 that was not an anomaly.  He has displayed a pattern that under duress, he doesn't rise to the occasion.  Someone said quoted an analyst (Chris Simms) best which I do not remember exactly but went something like: "There are no glaring weakness but there are no glaring strengths.  Dalton does not have enough talent to make a handful amount of plays off script or out of the system to win games."  Here is Simms evaluation of Dalton, which ranks him 26th out of 40 QB...

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/chris-simms-top-40-quarterback-rankings-andy-dalton-no-26

(09-16-2019, 08:51 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree with the trenches approach but Taylor needs to get his guy at QB and I don't think Dalton is his guy for the future.  

As a scientist hear me out. Andy Dalton might not be the long term solution at quarterback but I submit to you he is the perfect transitional quarterback and here’s why: Andy is like the canary in the coal mine. If the canary is chirping, all is well. If Andy is throwing with impunity, the offensive line is doing its job with respect to pass blocking. If Andy is running for his life, it’s time to upgrade again. This may involve upgrading the personnel, the coach, or both. Simply acquiring a mobile quarterback may or may not improve the offense. Besides, how many Randall Cunningham or Michael Vick clones are out there?

Andy Dalton is like the control group in a scientific experiment. He’s the part you keep constant to evaluate the rest.

Come on guys/girls - A new coaching staff and health will make us a contender this year!

(09-16-2019, 09:41 AM)PDub80 Wrote: You must have just started watching the Bengals in 2015.

The answer to your questions about the line and rushing attack are YES & YES. See, people just had different excuses for him those years.

Keep having faith in AD based on 1 season he's had out of 9, though. The tantrums defending him have become adorable. Child like, even.

2015 is an arbitration at this point. A statistical anomaly. 1 event out of 9 tries = possible. Not probable. Grow up.

He had a rushing attack his first 4 years in the league?  Do tell???  He had a good pass protecting line?  And a solid #2 WR outside AJ Green?  A TE?  A capable offensive coordinator? 

Yeah, I'm asking too much.  Cam Newton has an amazing running back and line and can't do crap.  

And it is 5 out of 8 right now that he made the playoffs.  On a team expected to go 0-16.  Yeah, he sucks. 

Grow up?  Grow a damn brain, idiot.

(09-16-2019, 10:07 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: A couple things about Dalton.  First, he has two years left on a rather team friendly deal.  I think his next contract will be expensive.  Second, Dalton made several bad throws and decisions in game 2 that was not an anomaly.  He has displayed a pattern that under duress, he doesn't rise to the occasion.  Someone said quoted an analyst (Chris Simms) best which I do not remember exactly but went something like: "There are no glaring weakness but there are no glaring strengths.  Dalton does not have enough talent to make a handful amount of plays off script or out of the system to win games."  Here is Simms evaluation of Dalton, which ranks him 26th out of 40 QB...

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/chris-simms-top-40-quarterback-rankings-andy-dalton-no-26

Yeah, Chris Simms opinion of a guy he probably never watched means a lot.  Probably sour grapes from a guy that couldn't hack it in the NFL.

When has Dalton had a line or rushing attack like Dak Prescott?

When has he had weapons like Piggy had with Bell, Brown, etc?

When has Dalton had a good OC?  

When any of those boxes were remotely checked, he won.  

I get it, and I will never change the minds of those that think a guy like Mayfield or Josh Allen would be winning in this situation.  I guess I will just have to hope the Bengals see it and don't throw a young guy to the lions behind that line.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  Hold the ball like a Russell Wilson and he'd get killed. 

(09-16-2019, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Based on what?  The stupid fans that blame him for everything?  Has Dalton EVER had a rushing attack like Jimmy G had today?  Even once in his career?  Has he ever had a really good offensive line?  One season he did and was on pace to be NFL MVP.  A mobile QB behind that line would just get pounded.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  

It is probably hardest to get your QB over anything.  I would MUCH rather spend that money, draft picks, etc on building the lines and get better, faster LBs. 

They want Finley to start (please note they wanted McCarron and Driskel to start too and look where they are at in their respective careers so take their qb scouting with a grain of salt).

Why waste a new qb behind this line, this run game, and this defense? Build the team, plug in the franchise qb. We are still 3/4 years away from building the team and getting this young coaching staff some experience. I'm all for getting a franchise qb when it makes sense to do so. Getting one now would just be putting lipstick on a pig.

And then folks be calling for his backup to start after a year and the cycle will continue.

(09-16-2019, 04:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, Chris Simms opinion of a guy he probably never watched means a lot.  Probably sour grapes from a guy that couldn't hack it in the NFL.

When has Dalton had a line or rushing attack like Dak Prescott?

When has he had weapons like Piggy had with Bell, Brown, etc?

When has Dalton had a good OC?  

When any of those boxes were remotely checked, he won.  

I get it, and I will never change the minds of those that think a guy like Mayfield or Josh Allen would be winning in this situation.  I guess I will just have to hope the Bengals see it and don't throw a young guy to the lions behind that line.  At least Dalton is decisive and gets the ball out quickly.  Hold the ball like a Russell Wilson and he'd get killed. 

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. IF Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Bengals, he probably doesn't develop into the perennial Pro Bowl QB he is today.

Only rare QB's succeed with lack of talent around them. I'd say Roethlisberger did well behind a bad line for years.

(09-16-2019, 04:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. IF Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Bengals, he probably doesn't develop into the perennial Pro Bowl QB he is today.

Only rare QB's succeed with lack of talent around them. I'd say Roethlisberger did well behind a bad line for years.

Actually Roethlisberger has always had a decent line and a good to great running game. 

I think if Dalton were in a different situation he'd be rolling and top 10 (maybe 5) in stats year in and year out.  I'd love to see what he could do in KC, New Orleans, LA or Dallas. 

As a matter of fact, if Brees is hurt long term and his career in jeopardy look for the Saints to put a play in for a guy like Dalton.  They did that about 15 years ago and it worked out pretty well.

(09-16-2019, 08:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I just hope they draft nothing but offensive line, defensive line, and LB.  Nothing.  I don't care if the next AJ Green is there.  I don't care if the next Mahommes is there.  None of the so-called skill positions will do crap until those units improve.  Look at Indy and how they are playing.  Too bad that former GM didn't do it sooner for Luck's sake.

This... Every discussion on here turns into an Andy debate. Nobody would excel behind this bunch of misfits, let alone a rookie QB. This problem has to be solved. I want to say once and for all but we know better than that. I wrote in the game day thread where it's like the problem that can't be solved no matter how much they put into it. An OL failure groundhog day. High draft picks (Jonah & Price hopefully will turn into productive players), but Ogbuehi & Fisher were epic failures that we still haven't recovered from. The Glenn signing hasn't really worked out yet. 

This has to be fixed in order to ever succeed. 

 

If you think having a great quarterback is all that matters and offensive linemen are interchangeable and a dime a dozen, you might be Mike Brown.

(09-16-2019, 09:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This BS is getting ridiculous.

Mike Brown Made Levi Jones and Willie Anderson the highest paid OT duo in the league.  he gave Bobbie Williams multiple contracts.  He paid Whitworth very well until he was 35 at which point most teams in the league would ahve done the same thing he did.  He traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league last year.  

He has let a total of 3 good O-linemen leave in free agency in the last 30 years.  So please stop with this silly lie about how he won't pay for O-line.

Good points.  Yet there doesn't seem to be a willingness to make a move to salvage a season vs just trying to make due.  Seems like Mike would be acting with more urgency these days vs writing off a season to a key injury.

One gotcha on the Browns and their willingness to pay is their obsession with avoiding dead money or even just contracts longer than they think they'll pay out.  That has lost them players like Joseph and Whitworth.  It was the loss of Witworth  combined with a complete whiff on two high OT picks that have left this team unable to field a competent Oline talent these last few years.

(09-16-2019, 06:00 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Actually Roethlisberger has always had a decent line and a good to great running game. 

I think if Dalton were in a different situation he'd be rolling and top 10 (maybe 5) in stats year in and year out.  I'd love to see what he could do in KC, New Orleans, LA or Dallas. 

As a matter of fact, if Brees is hurt long term and his career in jeopardy look for the Saints to put a play in for a guy like Dalton.  They did that about 15 years ago and it worked out pretty well.

Not the 1st half of his career. As of late he's had a good line because the Steelers realized he needed one.

I just don't know. The elite QB's all seem to have more accuracy and arm strength than Dalton.

But, he might be comparable to a guy like Drew Brees physically I suppose.

All this talk about Marvin is like being around a dude who just got dumped that won't shut up about his ex.

FWIW Marvin and company upset MSU Saturday... Arizona St. seemed to be blocking and tackling.

(09-16-2019, 09:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Not the 1st half of his career. As of late he's had a good line because the Steelers realized he needed one.

I just don't know. The elite QB's all seem to have more accuracy and arm strength than Dalton.

But, he might be comparable to a guy like Drew Brees physically I suppose.

It only seems like Ben played behind a good line early on because we could never get to him... Even when he held the ball too long, and every other team used to get sacks in him. By the time we had a good pass rush in the Summer days, their line had been shored up.