(09-18-2019, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When he is the reason we are not winning.

Was Denver stupid not to get rid of Elway after 8 years because it was impossible for him to ever win a Super Bowl?

You always seem to come up with QBs who have succeeded late in their careers but I could name ten times more who never succeeded. Teams have a formula to beat the Bengals with Dalton at QB. It seems this formula is working perfectly the last three plus years.

(09-18-2019, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm with you there. 

I think we CAN win in the playoffs with Dalton as QB, but if this ends up being yet another losing season and we are in position to draft a QB with great potential, I say do it.

As much as i "shit on him, think he's terrible, the devil and all that is wrong with the world"   , i'm not going to be upset if he's given this entire year. I don't think he has the ability to get them over the hump but i'm willing to see if/how he's different under Zac. 

(09-18-2019, 08:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wrong. KC had a terrible defense last season. We were actually the only team that gave up more yds per game. Winning the MVP on a team with a really bad defense is absolutely “overcoming adversity.”

I also think it’s laughable you claim he never deals with WR’s dropping any passes. Now I’ll admit, I don’t watch every KC game, but something tells me that’s probably not true...

Not wrong... here you go stating SC talking points.  KC's defense wasn't as bad as you are making it out to be.  Were they top 10?  No, but that doesn't mean they were terrible.  BTW: I thought we shouldn't tear down others to prop someone else up?  You are doing just that right now.

Ya know I have made mention of Mixon's AFC rushing title and that less than 1200 yards is nothing to get overly excited about.  If someone wanted to, they could call me out for stat manipulation, and they would be right.  The reason the AFC as a whole had less yards rushing is because the defenses did a good job stopping the run, especially when OLines seem to struggle as much as they have recently.  Do you see what all this means?  That it isn't just one thing?  That there are factors involved and other things to consider, before crowning players as great?  Probably not.

Let me guess, if the WR is targeted 5 times and drops the ball 1 time, then that means the QB is still dealing with dropped passes?  If that is what you think then, sure Mahomes deals with it, as it happens to all QBs.  I, however, like to think of it like this,  if a WR is targeted 5 times and drops the ball once, then that QB will have some pretty good stats.  However if the WR is targeted 5 times and drops the ball 3, then unless the passes are long ones, the QB will not have very good stats.  Completion / Attempts are attributed to the QB, drops are not really tallied.  There are some sights that track them, but not official NFL stats.

Could you maybe give it a rest with the “SC” crap and accusing me and others of just repeating what the “pundits” say. I haven’t watched ESPN (other than actual games) in about a decade. And I’m perfectly capable of forming my own opinions. Sorry I’m not some hipster that has to be a contrarian and go against something just because. If there’s a certain narrative about a player that’s widely agreed upon by the majority, maybe, just maybe, there’s something to it...

(09-18-2019, 03:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 2. If Uzo stays up...he gets out of bounds and saves the TO. The TO issue was on Marv, but Dalton didn't do him any favors making him rush because of the bad throw. When he went down there was 44 seconds left on the clock. When they ran the next play there was 22 seconds at the snap. That's 22 seconds of time that they could have used. So, i was obviously not wrong again. 

Time was not an issue.  They were at the 25.  They were in FG range.  Bullock just missed it.

(09-18-2019, 03:28 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You always seem to come up with QBs who have succeeded late in their careers but I could name ten times more who never succeeded.

Which means your claim that Dalton can not win in the postseason because he has not yet is wrong.

(09-18-2019, 03:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So, he's thrown for a lot of yards. That is good but those yards aren't leading to touchdowns late to win games. 

I can only tell you to watch the all 22 film in Game pass to see how often he misses "better" receiving options. Because nothing i'm saying will convince you that he's doing just enough to have good stats, but not enough to win games. You don't really need it to see the ones that have already been pointed out that he's missed in crucial situations.

And...maybe you haven't said this, but what is more important, good stats or winning the game?

No one is saying Dalton is perfect.  If you can find a QB who completes 100% of his passes then lets sign him.

But when the passing game is BY FAR the best component of our team it is ridiculous to say the passing game is why we are losing.

Do you need me to show you all 22 film of our defense so you can understand why they gave up over 500 yards Sunday?

How about some all 22 film of our rushing game which is producing 29 yards per game and 1.8 yards per carry?

Explain to me again why the rushing game and defense have nothing to do with winning football games.

Asking for a friend.

(09-18-2019, 03:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ok..i'll just ask you straight out, since you don't seem to be getting it.

I agreed with you that other players let him down. But you didn't see or say that. You accused me of refusing to acknowledge it. 

So just to be clear you are admitting that Dalton has not failed every single time, correct?

Dalton made the throw, but Green fumbled away the game.  So there is no way you can blame Dalton for that, right?

(09-18-2019, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Which means your claim that Dalton can not win in the postseason because he has not yet is wrong.

He has to first win a playoff game. You site Elway as a comparison but fail to mention that in his third year he won two playoff games and went to the Super Bowl. You love to cherry pick stats but omit facts that prove you don't know what you are talking about.

(09-18-2019, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So just to be clear you are admitting that Dalton has not failed every single time, correct?

Dalton made the throw, but Green fumbled away the game.  So there is no way you can blame Dalton for that, right?

He has failed every single time he has missed a throw that left his hand and wasn't a completion (in the scenarios we've discussed).

He has failed other times to lead the team to a win AND he has put the team in a position to win and been let down by AJ and Bullock. 

I don't know why i have to spell that out again, i didn't realize it was in question. 

If you're just angling to say that "so then dalton hasn't failed every single time", then that's just sad that there were 2 times someone else let him down in 8 plus years WHEN THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT HE HASN'T DONE ENOUGH TO WIN THOSE GAMES. 

I just can't understand why you need to try so hard to defend the guy when he hasn't done the things i've said he hasn't done, in 8 years.

(09-18-2019, 04:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I just can't understand why you need to try so hard to defend the guy when he hasn't done the things i've said he hasn't done, in 8 years.

He has only been in a position to win a game like that 5 times and twice he did his job only to have his teammates let him down.

So I don't know why you continue to act like Dalton is the reason we lose all of these games.

(09-18-2019, 04:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He has only been in a position to win a game like that 5 times and twice he did his job only to have his teammates let him down.

So I don't know why you continue to act like Dalton is the reason we lose all of these games.

He's not the reason they lost all these games. He's also not the reason that they won any of them. 

(09-18-2019, 04:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you're just angling to say that "so then dalton hasn't failed every single time", then that's just sad that there were 2 times someone else let him down in 8 plus years WHEN THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT HE HASN'T DONE ENOUGH TO WIN THOSE GAMES. 

No, what is sad is when he does do enough to win a prime time game against a playoff team, like throw 4 td passes against the number one defense in the league, you say it does not count because his defense played well enough to keep the Ravens from making it close.

So you won't give Dalton credit for playing well when his teammates play well, but you want to blame Dalton for the losses when his defense or other teammates let him down.

(09-18-2019, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No, what is sad is when he does do enough to win a prime time game against a playoff team, like throw 4 td passes against the number one defense in the league, you say it does not count because his defense played well enough to keep the Ravens from making it close.

So you won't give Dalton credit for playing well when his teammates play well, but you want to blame Dalton for the losses when his defense or other teammates let him down.

You're a flat out liar.

I've given him credit many many times. He played well in the first half of that Ravens game. There, does that make you feel better, for me to say it again?

The guy hasn't done jack shit to win your favorite NFL team a playoff game or very many prime time games in eight years, but at least he has you to go to bat for him. Enjoy that.

(09-17-2019, 04:21 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote:  he's  has never shown even a flash of being able make the throws necessary to win a game late on a Sunday or Monday night against a playoff quality team. 

Well at least you admit that you were wrong about this.  He has shown he can make the passes required, but sometimes his teammates let him down by fumbling or missing an easy FG.

(09-18-2019, 05:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're a flat out liar.

I've given him credit many many times. He played well in the first half of that Ravens game. There, does that make you feel better, for me to say it again?

The guy hasn't done jack shit to win your favorite NFL team a playoff game or very many prime time games in eight years, but at least he has you to go to bat for him. Enjoy that.

So you think its only Dalton that has been slacking in prime time and playoff games?  gotta watch the rest of the TV screen. there are 22 active starters not 1

(09-18-2019, 05:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've given him credit many many times. He played well in the first half of that Ravens game. There, does that make you feel better, for me to say it again?

No.  You need to say that he played well enough to beat a playoff caliber team in a prime time game.

Anyways my after 2 weeks thoughts...

I need to increase my beer budget.

(09-18-2019, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well at least you admit that you were wrong about this.  He has shown he can make the passes required, but sometimes his teammates let him down by fumbling or missing an easy FG.

He didn't make a throw late to win that game. 

I swear i'm about to get banned with all this BS...

(09-18-2019, 05:17 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: So you think its only Dalton that has been slacking in prime time and playoff games?  gotta watch the rest of the TV screen. there are 22 active starters not 1

What the **** are you talking about??????

Come into a discussion late...don't know what's going on....and say something ridiculous like that. 

Good job.