(10-14-2019, 01:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The worst part is that they are trying to win. If they liquidated all of their assets and had a treasure chest of high picks, it would make this tolerable atleast.

(10-14-2019, 01:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Officially the new Browns.

Except we don’t have a proven GM to turn us around...

This is what really has me on the cliff. We aren't trying to rebuild. We think we're supposed to be competitive right now. We have no plan to get better nor anyone in the organization who can develop and execute a plan to do so. Basically we may get to lose a playoff game in the next 15 years as history repeats itself. 

(10-14-2019, 01:59 PM)R3stangs Wrote: This is what really has me on the cliff. We are trying to rebuild. We think we're supposed to be competitive right now. We have no plan to get better nor anyone in the organization who can develop and execute a plan to do so. Basically we may get to lose a playoff game in the next 15 years as history repeats itself. 

The question remains: What do we as a fan base want? Do we want 2011-2015 back or do we want a complete renovation into a perennial Super Bowl contender? Even in 2005, 2009, and 2011-15 the Bengals could not beat good teams in the regular season so the lack of postseason success shouldn’t surprise anyone.

This trip toward a Lombardi Trophy is going to involve pain, sacrifice, and gut check decisions. Doing it Mikey Boy’s way wasn’t working. Doing it Marvin’s way helped for awhile. Now we’re back to doing it Mikey Boy’s way again and what do you know? We’re losing like it’s the 1990s.

(10-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote:  Even in 2005, 2009, and 2011-15 the Bengals could not beat good teams in the regular season so the lack of postseason success shouldn’t surprise anyone.

From '11 through '15 only 4 teams won more regular season games against teams that finished with a winning record than the Bengals (15), and only 5 teams had a better winning percentage (.484).

Here is a list of QBs Dalton beat head-to-head when the opponent had a Division Champion team

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Russell Wilson
Andrew Luck
Peyton Manning

(10-14-2019, 01:59 PM)R3stangs Wrote: This is what really has me on the cliff. We are trying to rebuild. We think we're supposed to be competitive right now. We have no plan to get better nor anyone in the organization who can develop and execute a plan to do so. Basically we may get to lose a playoff game in the next 15 years as history repeats itself. 

To go along with that, are fans not supposed to criticize during a rebuild? I'd expect to see players and coaches improving and blossoming in a rebuild, not trudging out the same week after week. Also, are fans not allowed to disconnect themselves (somewhat at least) during a rebuild? Most fans have no interest in seeing players develop, they just want to see wins.

(10-14-2019, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To go along with that, are fans not supposed to criticize during a rebuild? I'd expect to see players and coaches improving and blossoming in a rebuild, not trudging out the same week after week. Also, are fans not allowed to disconnect themselves (somewhat at least) during a rebuild? Most fans have no interest in seeing players develop, they just want to see wins.

The problem is that the Bengals haven't come out and said they're rebuilding. They made it very clear that they were (supposedly) trying to win. I think it makes a big difference had the Bengals said they're rebuilding. Even if they said, they were NOT tanking but that they were looking at rebuilding the team, I think we all have different reactions.

(10-14-2019, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A streak like this has to wear a team down.

And we are not just losing.  We are getting beaten down.  After the nice showing on opening day we have been outgained by an average of 465 to 283.  

This season is basically over and they still have 10 games to play.

Yards count as much as the popular vote. Since Taylor got here we have lost 20-21, 17-41, 17-21, 3-27, 23-26 and 17-23. Couple of beat downs there, but the others would not qualify as beat downs, they were 1 score games.

(10-14-2019, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It still wouldn't be tolerable, not 2019 at least. Clearly tanking would not magically add viewers. In fact, it would likely result in further reduction of viewers, merchandise, etc. All it really would do is give the team more excitement in the offseason for 2020.

At the end of the day, the fans want a winning record. Fans won't show up and/or be truly excited until they see it happen again. Cincinnati is not Cleveland. They won't pack the stadium and be eternal optimists just for the sake of having a local team. They'll rotate their attention to the Reds (who have had the best record they've had since 2014 and trending up). Cincinnati is a baseball city first and foremost. And that's because of the multiple championships and being the first team in the league.

I honestly think that over the years the Bengals have had one of the most loyal fan bases given the circumstances.

Whenever we lost the Bo Jackson game, who would anyone ever predicted no playoff wins through 2019 or that we would lose 12 of the last 13 games against the Steelers or that Bengals would regularly be putrid on prime time games.

Truly- what fan base in almost any professional sport has had to endure this miserable record in a league based upon parity?

" 1-13 has to be getting in players' heads "

I can think of another part of the body it should be getting into Bengals players, with a good swift kick by the coaches Vince Lombardi style.

(10-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The question remains:  What do we as a fan base want?  Do we want 2011-2015 back or do we want a complete renovation into a perennial Super Bowl contender?  Even in 2005, 2009, and 2011-15 the Bengals could not beat good teams in the regular season so the lack of postseason success shouldn’t surprise anyone.

This trip toward a Lombardi Trophy is going to involve pain, sacrifice, and gut check decisions.  Doing it Mikey Boy’s way wasn’t working.  Doing it Marvin’s way helped for awhile.  Now we’re back to doing it Mikey Boy’s way again and what do you know?  We’re losing like it’s the 1990s.

With this management team, I don't know that you'll get either anytime soon.

(10-14-2019, 02:43 PM)bengals67 Wrote: I honestly think that over the years the Bengals have had one of the most loyal fan bases given the circumstances.

Whenever we lost the Bo Jackson game, who would anyone ever predicted no playoff wins through 2019 or that we would lose 12 of the last 13 games against the Steelers or that Bengals would regularly be putrid on prime time games.

Truly- what fan base in almost any professional sport has had to endure this miserable record in a league based upon parity?

About the only ones who have had it as bad or worse are Browns and Lions fans.

(10-14-2019, 02:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The problem is that the Bengals haven't come out and said they're rebuilding. They made it very clear that they were (supposedly) trying to win. I think it makes a big difference had the Bengals said they're rebuilding. Even if they said, they were NOT tanking but that they were looking at rebuilding the team, I think we all have different reactions.

I feel like they thought they could throw a new coat of paint on the walls and make things look new.

The new staff has not been able to do that. in fact, they've made guys worse in many cases.

(10-14-2019, 02:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yards count as much as the popular vote. Since Taylor got here we have lost 20-21, 17-41, 17-21, 3-27, 23-26 and 17-23. Couple of beat downs there, but the others would not qualify as beat downs, they were 1 score games.

We've had the lead for something like 30 plays all year in 6 games. IF you can justify that as progress...

And yards do matter as they're generally linked to points and winning.

(10-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The question remains:  What do we as a fan base want?  Do we want 2011-2015 back or do we want a complete renovation into a perennial Super Bowl contender?  Even in 2005, 2009, and 2011-15 the Bengals could not beat good teams in the regular season so the lack of postseason success shouldn’t surprise anyone.

This trip toward a Lombardi Trophy is going to involve pain, sacrifice, and gut check decisions.  Doing it Mikey Boy’s way wasn’t working.  Doing it Marvin’s way helped for awhile.  Now we’re back to doing it Mikey Boy’s way again and what do you know?  We’re losing like it’s the 1990s.

Honestly FIK, right now I'd take either. Sorry I had edit my post as it should have said we AREN"T trying to rebuild, we truly think we should be competitive now. 

I have no faith that this organization can become a perennial contender with the management as is. In theory we could have been seen that way in 2011-2015 however we still managed to find ways to lose the big games or important ones it seems and could never get over the hump. But teams with truly good management find ways to stay competitive even when they have their 'down' years. It seemed the combination of player selection and Marvin brought us out of the dark for a period but even that turned stale and regressed quickly. Now we have a coach who has given no reason to have any faith and so many failed drafts in a row I have no idea why Bengal fans even look forward to the draft. Tobin taking a first round kicker wouldn't even surprise me any more. 

I see a team woefully short on talent, woefully lacking in any real coaching skill and a management team that has proven they have very little idea of how to right the ship on any consistent basis. It really makes the NFL completely dull to me anymore and honestly I haven't even been watching but a few minutes of the games. Enough to get irritated and figure out theres better use of my time.

Losing has clearly affected Atkins who is a shell of his pro-bowl self. Atkins did not have a single solo tackle, a tackle for assist, or a partial sack against the Ravens. Not a single tackle.

(10-14-2019, 04:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Losing has clearly affected Atkins who is a shell of his pro-bowl self.  Atkins did not have a single solo tackle, a tackle for assist, or a partial sack against the Ravens.  Not a single tackle.

Perfect example.  

I think that is a problem with a lot of our players.  1-13 will turn you into a loser.  Especially when teams are just running up and down the field on you while the offense has scored 3 tds total in the last three games.

Remember how Burfict played last year.  Like he didn't give a shit.  Apparently he was playing like his old self for the Raiders before he killed that guy.  

I think some of even our better players have checked out.

(10-14-2019, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A streak like this has to wear a team down.

And we are not just losing.  We are getting beaten down.  After the nice showing on opening day we have been outgained by an average of 465 to 283.  

This season is basically over and they still have 10 games to play.

OUT of the remaining schedule,what team do all of you believe we can beat,maybe the dolphins,but that's about it and who do all of you believe will make the playoffs. I could see the ravens,the chiefs,the pats,the saints,the hawks,the packers, and I think its going to be a repeat with the hawks and the pats and Tom Brady will get his 7th super bowl win. He is by far the best qb that has ever played and his coach is by far the best their ever was. You need both to win and we will never have that.I will go to my grave after 50 years of support and never see a super bowl victory by our BENGALS. so sad and I am sick just thinking about that.

(10-14-2019, 05:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Perfect example.  

I think that is a problem with a lot of our players.  1-13 will turn you into a loser.  Especially when teams are just running up and down the field on you while the offense has scored 3 tds total in the last three games.

Remember how Burfict played last year.  Like he didn't give a shit.  Apparently he was playing like his old self for the Raiders before he killed that guy.  

I think some of even our better players have checked out.

I don't think winning is around the corner either Fred.  Which is why I think the front office ought to trade players so they can go to a contender.  This looks like a full 3-4 year re-build and I think several coaches will be fired along the way although I think they will stick with Taylor for at least 4-5 years.  

I really wished that Gators DC would have accepted the job, he seems competent.  I think Taylor was up against time constraints and did not fully assess personnel given the LAR were in the playoffs.  

(10-14-2019, 02:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like they thought they could throw a new coat of paint on the walls and make things look new.

The new staff has not been able to do that. in fact, they've made guys worse in many cases.

Awe, c'mon, they did more than throw new paint on the walls...… Taylor replaced the lighting too.... remember?

(10-14-2019, 05:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Perfect example.  

I think that is a problem with a lot of our players.  1-13 will turn you into a loser.  Especially when teams are just running up and down the field on you while the offense has scored 3 tds total in the last three games.

Remember how Burfict played last year.  Like he didn't give a shit.  Apparently he was playing like his old self for the Raiders before he killed that guy.  

I think some of even our better players have checked out.

Zac says our team is fighting harder than he's ever seen and everyone has bought in.

It's like the players know this staff is a joke.

(10-14-2019, 07:15 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Awe, c'mon, they did more than throw new paint on the walls...… Taylor replaced the lighting too.... remember?

It was an analogy. Meaning the team had major issues at OL and LB and the team thought a new staff would fix that stuff up.

It obviously didn't and a bunch of guys actually regressed.