(11-08-2019, 07:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'd love a reporter to question Mike Brown about this quote. Did he reallyu say that? Does he still think that? What are his honest thoughts about free agency? I know it won't happen but just to see his reaction might be enough for me.

Based on his comments over the years concerning free agency, I'd say it's likely that he said what Quinn stated, and I'd bet that he pretty much still feels the same way now. 

Worse than that though, is his weird thought process when it comes to signing free agents, as shown in this exchange with Jim O:

Mike: “We will have to allocate the cap room that we have to a combination of our own players, and that will be first and foremost, and then it will be what else we can do to add the team.”

Jim: “Is some of that a scouting, or staffing issue – having a pro personnel side – it’s not about money or activity, but it’s about finding better players from other teams?”

Mike: “There are players that would fit us. Tell me how to fit them. It’s trying to put a size 12 foot in a size five shoe. It doesn’t work.” 

I don't have a problem with Mike Brown and the Bengals philosophical aversion toward Free Agency. It is obvious that he was against it from the beginning.

My problem is this: If the Bengals are against FA and plan to develop the team from the draft, then the Front Office should have the Best, most sound Drafting room, personnel in the NFL. Period. Not the smallest.

(11-08-2019, 03:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: According to prominent labor / sports attorney and author, Jim Quinn, who has been involved in the fight for free agency in all 4 major sports and was recently on an OBI podcast, this was Mike's reaction to free agency becoming a reality in the NFL:

“The one memory I have; and this goes back to when we were fighting about free agency early on and we actually won the first case and we were trying to reach a settlement that would allow free agency and some kind of a salary cap; I remember being in a conference room in the airport in Dallas-Fort Worth,” Quinn recalled.

“And, Mike Brown was one of the owners that was on their negotiating committee—there are a number of difficult owners, including Al Davis, who was a superstar difficult person—but, we were sitting around the room trying to debate different issues. At some point, even though we had already won the case, Mike Brown just shook his head, looked at Gene Upshaw (Pro Football Hall of Fame player, former NFLPA Executive Director) and me and said ‘I’m never ever going to agree to this. Never. I think it’s wrong, I think I should have control over my players,” Quinn said.

“I remember looking at Upshaw and saying: ‘this guy is crazy’”.

Mike has had a ton of quotes that made me have the same reaction. The dude is just wired differently AND he's stubborn to a legendary level.

(11-08-2019, 04:56 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the way they chose to spend money this offseason was a little perplexing to say the least. What other team would have gave Hart or Webb those types of deals? I think it's safe to say that both could have been signed for half (or less) of what they got.

Fair to say the richest are not always the brightest.

(11-08-2019, 09:53 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Fair to say the richest are not always the brightest.

Depends how they came into their fortunes.

(11-08-2019, 08:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Based on his comments over the years concerning free agency, I'd say it's likely that he said what Quinn stated, and I'd bet that he pretty much still feels the same way now. 

Worse than that though, is his weird thought process when it comes to signing free agents, as shown in this exchange with Jim O:

Mike: “We will have to allocate the cap room that we have to a combination of our own players, and that will be first and foremost, and then it will be what else we can do to add the team.”

Jim: “Is some of that a scouting, or staffing issue – having a pro personnel side – it’s not about money or activity, but it’s about finding better players from other teams?”

Mike: “There are players that would fit us. Tell me how to fit them. It’s trying to put a size 12 foot in a size five shoe. It doesn’t work.” 

Holy Shit is this real? Is this really a quote from MB?

(11-08-2019, 08:43 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't have a problem with Mike Brown and the Bengals philosophical aversion toward Free Agency.  It is obvious that he was against it from the beginning.  

My problem is this:  If the Bengals are against FA and plan to develop the team from the draft, then the Front Office should have the Best, most sound Drafting room, personnel in the NFL.  Period.  Not the smallest.

Very good point. As much as he loves the draft and hates FA, you would think he would invest money into proving his way is the correct way. Yet, he doesn’t because he doesn’t care. It’s never been about the players, the city or fans, it’s always been about profits in Brown pockets and the next gen to take over feel the same way.

(11-09-2019, 10:54 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: you would think he would invest money

You would think that, but he doesn't. Has MIke Brown ever invested his own money into the Bengals in ANY way, shape, or form? Seriously? 

(11-09-2019, 10:58 AM)PhilHos Wrote: You would think that, but he doesn't. Has MIke Brown ever invested his own money into the Bengals in ANY way, shape, or form? Seriously? 

I just wish this bozo would hit his head hard enough that he realizes he stands to make a hellova lot more money if he puts a great team together.

(11-09-2019, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I just wish this bozo would hit his head hard enough that he realizes he stands to make a hellova lot more money if he puts a great team together.

That's what I don't understand. Just spend a little money to get the best team he can and win a lot of games and watch the money poor in! He probably saw an increase in money after we went to 5 straight playoffs and that was 5 one-and-done and you'd think he'd try even harder to actually WIN a playoff game and see even MORE money.

(11-08-2019, 08:43 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't have a problem with Mike Brown and the Bengals philosophical aversion toward Free Agency.  It is obvious that he was against it from the beginning.  

My problem is this:  If the Bengals are against FA and plan to develop the team from the draft, then the Front Office should have the Best, most sound Drafting room, personnel in the NFL.  Period.  Not the smallest.

Nail, meet the head of Psychdoctor's hammer.

 

(11-08-2019, 06:19 PM)treee Wrote: Man how awesome would it be if we could convince these clowns to sell the organization to the city? It'd be like a dream come true.

Why not to the county, the same county commissioners that sold their soles to MB?   Oh yeah..a team run by county commissioners.. What could possibly go wrong with that? On the other hand they could in theory be voted out of office.

(11-09-2019, 11:30 AM)grampahol Wrote: Why not to the county, the same county commissioners that sold their soles to MB?   Oh yeah..a team run by county commissioners.. What could possibly go wrong with that? On the other hand they could in theory be voted out of office.

Can you imagine if the owner of the Bengals was an elected position? Can you imagine how many different people would probably be the elected owner considering how fickle Bengals fans are?

(11-09-2019, 10:10 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Holy Shit is this real? Is this really a quote from MB?

Yeah, its from this interview with Jim O - https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/01/19/cincinnati-bengals-owner-mike-brown-why-marvin-lewis-back-head-coach/1048725001/

(11-09-2019, 11:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote: That's what I don't understand. Just spend a little money to get the best team he can and win a lot of games and watch the money poor in! He probably saw an increase in money after we went to 5 straight playoffs and that was 5 one-and-done and you'd think he'd try even harder to actually WIN a playoff game and see even MORE money.

He is risk averse. He probably knows he can possibly make more money by doubling the scouting staff and hiring a proper GM. But that would cost money for a year or two with no guarantee of success. Simply a horrible businessman. 

(11-08-2019, 08:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Based on his comments over the years concerning free agency, I'd say it's likely that he said what Quinn stated, and I'd bet that he pretty much still feels the same way now. 

Worse than that though, is his weird thought process when it comes to signing free agents, as shown in this exchange with Jim O:

Mike: “We will have to allocate the cap room that we have to a combination of our own players, and that will be first and foremost, and then it will be what else we can do to add the team.”

Jim: “Is some of that a scouting, or staffing issue – having a pro personnel side – it’s not about money or activity, but it’s about finding better players from other teams?”

Mike: “There are players that would fit us. Tell me how to fit them. It’s trying to put a size 12 foot in a size five shoe. It doesn’t work.” 

And a big part of that, is them over-valuing their own players. Re-signing guys like Hart, Brown, etc, instead of dumping those salaries and signing someone better. They think fans are too stupid to understand how that works...or they're too stupid or lazy to do it...

They would rather sign average to crap players that are already on the roster and hope they work out, instead of signing someone more expensive that "may not" work out. Hello?....the crappy players you sign aren't working out so where is the risk of signing someone else?

Stupid, backwards-ass, lazy maroons. They're not nearly as smart as they think they are. 

(11-08-2019, 08:43 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't have a problem with Mike Brown and the Bengals philosophical aversion toward Free Agency.  It is obvious that he was against it from the beginning.  

My problem is this:  If the Bengals are against FA and plan to develop the team from the draft, then the Front Office should have the Best, most sound Drafting room, personnel in the NFL.  Period.  Not the smallest.

Correct and the other odd ****** up thing about scouting staffs - Paul Brown invented the concept of scouting college games and the whole system we now see. So once again the apple fell far far away from the tree. 

None of it makes sense other than he can make a safe annual income amount with the minimal amount of work or risk.

(11-09-2019, 02:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And a big part of that, is them over-valuing their own players. Re-signing guys like Hart, Brown, etc, instead of dumping those salaries and signing someone better. They think fans are too stupid to understand how that works...or they're too stupid or lazy to do it...

They would rather sign average to crap players that are already on the roster and hope they work out, instead of signing someone more expensive that "may not" work out. Hello?....the crappy players you sign aren't working out so where is the risk of signing someone else?

Stupid, backwards-ass, lazy maroons. They're not nearly as smart as they think they are. 

Here's more of Mike's reasoning: 

"We try to spend our cap money in ways that we think make sense. Our goal is to retain our own good players if we can. That’s the first order of business. And we can’t always do that with the cap room that we have. We do a lot of it. that is quickly overlooked whenever we do it. Oh, go do this, go do that. Well, the chips to do that have been spent. They’re gone. We look to do what we can within our cap room."

The cap excuse fails on it's face, because not only do the Bengals usually have among the most cap available going into free agency...they also tend to be among the top in space left after free agency. The money is always there to sign a top tier player or two, they just choose not. They are far more comfortable going after low risk discount players and those cut by other teams that won't cost a comp pick to sign. That is the free agency player pool they have almost always targeted.

(11-09-2019, 02:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And a big part of that, is them over-valuing their own players. Re-signing guys like Hart, Brown, etc, instead of dumping those salaries and signing someone better. They think fans are too stupid to understand how that works...or they're too stupid or lazy to do it...

They would rather sign average to crap players that are already on the roster and hope they work out, instead of signing someone more expensive that "may not" work out. Hello?....the crappy players you sign aren't working out so where is the risk of signing someone else?

Stupid, backwards-ass, lazy maroons. They're not nearly as smart as they think they are. 

Apparently Troy Blackburn really really likes Hart's feet.

(11-09-2019, 02:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And a big part of that, is them over-valuing their own players. Re-signing guys like Hart, Brown, etc, instead of dumping those salaries and signing someone better. They think fans are too stupid to understand how that works...or they're too stupid or lazy to do it...

They would rather sign average to crap players that are already on the roster and hope they work out, instead of signing someone more expensive that "may not" work out. Hello?....the crappy players you sign aren't working out so where is the risk of signing someone else?

Stupid, backwards-ass, lazy maroons. They're not nearly as smart as they think they are. 

What makes the Brown and Hart signings even dumber is that they didn't even draft the guys. Like how did they become" Bengals guys" . It makes zero sense