Make no mistake about the fault of the organization. Most of us know this already but just in case there is any doubt, read this article. Also, Mike Brown has been fixated on getting that QB and will likely draft Burrow or another QB this draft.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/07/07/cincinnati-bengals-50-dave-shula/366662001/

Here is an interesting quote by Dave Shula:

“I could have done a better job of holding people more accountable to earn more respect,” he says now. “I sit back and remember having a team leader meeting, I don’t know if it was during the season or if it was in the off season and I’m not going to get into the names of the people, but looking at those players that were in that meeting – and they were undisputed the leaders of the team – this was after Boomer was gone and Anthony (Munoz), and you look back at who was in that room, not one of them turned out to be leaders. And they’ve had some issues off the field since then. Once again, I was bringing those people in. There were some players, and again I won’t get into names, but there were some players that we knew we had issues with and we held on to longer than we should’ve. I could have been, I should have been more forceful in saying look, in order to move the team forward we need to build with character and we didn’t do that in certain decisions.

“I think over the years, and now in looking and reading at what coach (Marvin) Lewis and the Browns have done in recent years and the success they’ve had and the playoff run they’ve had, I think you look at the players they’ve brought in and you see people of character. I think they learned that over the years, too.”

No worries, Zac Taylor will never reach Shula's win total. I doubt he'll reach 50 losses simply because he'll be gone before it gets to that.

(11-21-2019, 01:15 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: . “I sit back and remember having a team leader meeting, I don’t know if it was during the season or if it was in the off season and I’m not going to get into the names of the people,

Because he is still afraid of Gary Reasons.

I'm not sure how much I can hold "not a leader" against anyone who plays for the Bengals, because we've seen players who were "not leader" here go elsewhere and be recognized as leaders. Also, it's difficult to be a leader when you are working for a narrow-minded control freak owner/boss because often those types view subordinates with influence as a threat, or people who will rock the proverbial boat.

Mike Brown certainly seems to a foster the mentality of "the blade of grass that stands the tallest gets cut down" but that's just my take.

(11-21-2019, 01:15 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Make no mistake about the fault of the organization.  Most of us know this already but just in case there is any doubt, read this article.  Also, Mike Brown has been fixated on getting that QB and will likely draft Burrow or another QB this draft.  

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/07/07/cincinnati-bengals-50-dave-shula/366662001/

Here is an interesting quote by Dave Shula:

“I could have done a better job of holding people more accountable to earn more respect,” he says now. “I sit back and remember having a team leader meeting, I don’t know if it was during the season or if it was in the off season and I’m not going to get into the names of the people, but looking at those players that were in that meeting – and they were undisputed the leaders of the team – this was after Boomer was gone and Anthony (Munoz), and you look back at who was in that room, not one of them turned out to be leaders. And they’ve had some issues off the field since then. Once again, I was bringing those people in. There were some players, and again I won’t get into names, but there were some players that we knew we had issues with and we held on to longer than we should’ve. I could have been, I should have been more forceful in saying look, in order to move the team forward we need to build with character and we didn’t do that in certain decisions.

“I think over the years, and now in looking and reading at what coach (Marvin) Lewis and the Browns have done in recent years and the success they’ve had and the playoff run they’ve had, I think you look at the players they’ve brought in and you see people of character. I think they learned that over the years, too.”

What is he talking about? CHARACTER GUYS?!?! When we made the 5 playoffs in a row...we had Pacman Jones and Burfict on the roster.

Then, some of the lesser guys had red flags when drafted on those rosters.

(11-21-2019, 01:15 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Make no mistake about the fault of the organization. Most of us know this already but just in case there is any doubt, read this article. Also, Mike Brown has been fixated on getting that QB and will likely draft Burrow or another QB this draft.

That’s exactly what I fear. The only position Mike Brown remotely understands is quarterback because that’s the position he played at Dartmouth. He doesn’t understand “blockers” — his word for offensive linemen, not mine — and I think he goes to get a hot dog when the Bengals’ defense is playing.

Every quarterback Mike Brown drafted with the exception of Carson Palmer was a bust. Think about that for a minute. Marvin Lewis controlled the draft starting in 2009 and did much better, picking Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron. Now Mike’s in charge of the draft again and he’s going to overlook Chase Young, draft a quarterback, and watch the team flounder in amazement.

(11-21-2019, 11:46 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s exactly what I fear.  The only position Mike Brown remotely understands is quarterback because that’s the position he played at Dartmouth.  He doesn’t understand “blockers” — his word for offensive linemen, not mine — and I think he goes to get a hot dog when the Bengals’ defense is playing.

Every quarterback Mike Brown drafted with the exception of Carson Palmer was a bust.  Think about that for a minute.  Marvin Lewis controlled the draft starting in 2009 and did much better, picking Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron.  Now Mike’s in charge of the draft again and he’s going to overlook Chase Young, draft a quarterback, and watch the team flounder in amazement.

Yep. QB's in the NFL are mainly a product of coaching and surrounding cast.

Like IF we drafted Brady here, I doubt he turns into a SB winner. He's likely out of the league in 5-6 years.

Honestly I would rather bring in Cam Newton or Eli Manning, try to address the lines and linebackers through the 2020 draft and free agency this coming year then maybe think about drafting a Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence in 2021.

Thats no different than what Marvin did, held onto Mental Thug Head Cases

(11-21-2019, 12:05 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Honestly I would rather bring in Cam Newton or Eli Manning, try to address the lines and linebackers through the 2020 draft and free agency this coming year then maybe think about drafting a Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence in 2021.

I keep going back and forth between Burrow and Young. I can see taking Young and trying to stockpile picks and trade up for an Olineman. Then waiting until next season for QB. But with our current GM you know he does things his way so.........I'd be shocked if he went out and got Newton !

MB has been looking for his Otto Graham ever since he was PB's run with him.

(11-21-2019, 12:05 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Honestly I would rather bring in Cam Newton or Eli Manning, try to address the lines and linebackers through the 2020 draft and free agency this coming year then maybe think about drafting a Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence in 2021.

Hmm, if there is a re-tread vet under center in 2020 and it isn't Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill I'll be amazed.  Amazed, I tells ya. Oh man, what if ZT and MB want to see what Finley can do in his second year with a healthy surrounding cast? Stay tuned to see how crazy that would be!

(11-21-2019, 10:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What is he talking about? CHARACTER GUYS?!?! When we made the 5 playoffs in a row...we had Pacman Jones and Burfict on the roster.

Then, some of the lesser guys had red flags when drafted on those rosters.

What I get from this article is that Mike Brown fosters the same pattern of players over nearly 30 years.  We saw this under Marvin Lewis as well.  Will we see this under Zac Taylor?  Lets hope not.  

(11-21-2019, 12:14 PM)corpjet Wrote: Thats no different than what Marvin did, held onto Mental Thug Head Cases

Was it Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown?  

(11-21-2019, 02:51 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: What I get from this article is that Mike Brown fosters the same pattern of players over nearly 30 years.  We saw this under Marvin Lewis as well.  Will we see this under Zac Taylor?  Lets hope not.  

Honestly, it's just Shula saying Mike Brown is too loyal to certain people. It doesn't matter if they're high character guys or not. It doesn't matter if they're coaches or players or front office personnel. If Mike rates them highly, they're going to be here until they move on themselves or do something so egregious Mike has no choice but to move on from them. 

Loyalty is a good quality to have in an individual but there is such a thing as being too loyal or being loyal to a fault or being loyal to the wrong people. That is just one of the many, many, MANY issues that make up Mike Brown and that he's shown no desire to change or grow beyond.

(11-21-2019, 02:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Honestly, it's just Shula saying Mike Brown is too loyal to certain people. It doesn't matter if they're high character guys or not. It doesn't matter if they're coaches or players or front office personnel. If Mike rates them highly, they're going to be here until they move on themselves or do something so egregious Mike has no choice but to move on from them. 

Loyalty is a good quality to have in an individual but there is such a thing as being too loyal or being loyal to a fault or being loyal to the wrong people. That is just one of the many, many, MANY issues that make up Mike Brown and that he's shown no desire to change or grow beyond.

It is interesting how Mike Brown drives away top draft picks to the point there is animosity.  Like Spikes, Dillon, Palmer, Wilkerson.   It is clearly a dysfunctional personality issue with players. 

(11-21-2019, 02:59 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It is interesting how Mike Brown drives away top draft picks to the point there is animosity.  Like Spikes, Dillon, Palmer, Wilkerson.   It is clearly a dysfunctional personality issue with players. 

IMO, it's because he doesn't view them as people.

(11-21-2019, 12:14 PM)corpjet Wrote: Thats no different than what Marvin did, held onto Mental Thug Head Cases

reclamation projects get it right

(11-21-2019, 02:59 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It is interesting how Mike Brown drives away top draft picks to the point there is animosity.  Like Spikes, Dillon, Palmer, Wilkerson.   It is clearly a dysfunctional personality issue with players. 

To be fair, pretty much every NFL team has former high profile players that left under bad terms.

(11-21-2019, 10:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What is he talking about? CHARACTER GUYS?!?! When we made the 5 playoffs in a row...we had Pacman Jones and Burfict on the roster.

Then, some of the lesser guys had red flags when drafted on those rosters.

He's talking about leaders on the field and in the locker room. Say what you want about Jones and Burfict, there is no denying those two guys cared more about winning than anyone else on the team. You never saw Pacman laughing on the sideline when they were down on the scoreboard.

(11-21-2019, 01:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, if there is a re-tread vet under center in 2020 and it isn't Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill I'll be amazed.  Amazed, I tells ya.  Oh man, what if ZT and MB want to see what Finley can do in his second year with a healthy surrounding cast?  Stay tuned to see how crazy that would be!

Carson Palmer was a#1 pick and did not start year one, Kitna did so yeah regardless if we draft a QB #1 or #2 overall, he may be holding a clipboard.