(12-23-2019, 12:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Playing Devil's advocate here....but Dalton didn't get a pass when he was sick enough to be getting fluids via I.V. before a game in Tampa where he played bad.....and we WON.

I already pointed out that when people defend Dalton, he is quick to throw out the word "excuses".

Yet when flipping it and pointing out that Mixon hasn't performed well all season, he throws out all of these "excuses".

It really is simple.  This OLine is so good and it is Dalton's fault for the bad season which is why we need Joe Burrow, but not good enough to get the supposedly great RB better production.  Only have to jump through a few mental hoops to get to this conclusion.

(12-23-2019, 12:41 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Normally I love your post... but this isn't one of your best.  You are blaming his stats on him and not the scheme, the lack of production in the run game and no OLine?  Really.  I know you are smarter than this.

I don't see Dalton here next year, I wouldn't blame him for demanding to be released. Why stay in a place that obviously doesn't want him to be here?

Yes, I've always blamed Andy's poor play on Andy. As to scheme he's been in 2 different ones the last 2 years and has finished 26 and 32nd. As to no running game, when had the AFC's leading rusher last year he finished 26th. As to oline protection: we are 7th in sacks allowed and 4th in passes attempted, so the Oline is protecting. 

I do appreciate the compliments, we just see this one differently. Andy was a middle of the road starter in his prime, but he will be entering his 10th season and has shown a step decline.

WTS, who knows; stranger things have happened. There's a guy in this forum whose username rhymes with head. I once suggested that the team should have perhaps held onto Fitz in 2009 and get what we could for CP9. That dude told me Fitz would never be a starter in the NFL. Anybody get the name of that starter that beat us yesterday while passing for over 400 yards? 

A supporting cast is never a bad thing in most any profession. Hell, I painted cars for a living for a while, but if the people doing the sanding and taping did a lousy job the paint job looked horrible. There's just no way to do a great job painting without the prep work being done properly.. Anyway, when all the big playmakers left Andy was left with a shell of a team and for that he was crucified and made to look horrible. It was like asking him to do a great paint job when the guy sanding the car used a brick and taped it up with toilet paper..

Lets just rebuild a team around an average 30+ year old QB then? Hmm. Thats very Mike Brown like...

Lets not forget the 9 years of AJ bailing Andy's poorly thrown balls out by being such an amazing WR who can adjust and win most 50/50 balls. WRs like AJ dont come around often. Without a WR of his caliber Andy doesnt look even above average and never has. We can draft and draft but finding another AJ is going to be a crap shoot.

(12-23-2019, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, I've always blamed Andy's poor play on Andy. As to scheme he's been in 2 different ones the last 2 years and has finished 26 and 32nd. As to no running game, when had the AFC's leading rusher last year he finished 26th. As to oline protection: we are 7th in sacks allowed and 4th in passes attempted, so the Oline is protecting. 

I do appreciate the compliments, we just see this one differently. Andy was a middle of the road starter in his prime, but he will be entering his 10th season and has shown a step decline.

WTS, who knows; stranger things have happened. There's a guy in this forum whose username rhymes with head. I once suggested that the team should have perhaps held onto Fitz in 2009 and get what we could for CP9. That dude told me Fitz would never be a starter in the NFL. Anybody get the name of that starter that beat us yesterday while passing for over 400 yards? 

So will you be blaming Burrow's poor play or Burrow?

I disagree about Dalton being a "middle of the road starter in his prime".  2015 was his best year and he was even mentioned as a MVP candidate at one point in that season.  That was the year he had the right scheme, the proper protection and an even better run game to work with.

You do know that Dalton didn't play every game last year and Mixon hasn't been a consistently good RB?  Sure Mixon has his moments and he even has some good games, but outside of a big run here and there, he hasn't been overly productive.  The game that comes to mind about Mixon's ability is the Packers game during Mixon's rookie season, he gets a first down, we beat GB.  He slips... when the game was on the line, he slipped.  I have seen that happen with him quite a bit.  Maybe not slipping but not getting it done when it is needed the most.

As to him being the leading rushing in the AFC, he was giving the ball the most in the AFC.  His 237 next to the 215 that Derrick Henry got should be looked at as well.  Considering that Mixon only got 1168 compared to the 1059 of Henry.  20 carries more and 100 yards more.  Of course Dalton's injury may have been a reason for giving him the ball more.

Stats are also misleading.  How many of those passes were throw a ways to prevent a sack?  The incompletion hurts the QB, the lack of a sack helps the OLine.

I like Fitz.  Funny that you want to dump Dalton (or have him holding a clip board) but wanted to keep Fitz.  There is a lot of the same character traits that these 2 share.

(12-23-2019, 01:30 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So will you be blaming Burrow's poor play or Burrow?

I disagree about Dalton being a "middle of the road starter in his prime".  2015 was his best year and he was even mentioned as a MVP candidate at one point in that season.  That was the year he had the right scheme, the proper protection and an even better run game to work with.

You do know that Dalton didn't play every game last year and Mixon hasn't been a consistently good RB?  Sure Mixon has his moments and he even has some good games, but outside of a big run here and there, he hasn't been overly productive.  The game that comes to mind about Mixon's ability is the Packers game during Mixon's rookie season, he gets a first down, we beat GB.  He slips... when the game was on the line, he slipped.  I have seen that happen with him quite a bit.  Maybe not slipping but not getting it done when it is needed the most.

As to him being the leading rushing in the AFC, he was giving the ball the most in the AFC.  His 237 next to the 215 that Derrick Henry got should be looked at as well.  Considering that Mixon only got 1168 compared to the 1059 of Henry.  20 carries more and 100 yards more.  Of course Dalton's injury may have been a reason for giving him the ball more.

Stats are also misleading.  How many of those passes were throw a ways to prevent a sack?  The incompletion hurts the QB, the lack of a sack helps the OLine.

I like Fitz.  Funny that you want to dump Dalton (or have him holding a clip board) but wanted to keep Fitz.  There is a lot of the same character traits that these 2 share.

This is the Bengals man. If Burrow stinks it up, he will be called out proper just like everyone is. But fans are realistic and know we are in a rebuilding mode. It may take a year or two for a rookie QB and that is assuming ZT doesnt just completely blow and somehow with the right players can produce a high powered offense. The jury is out on this guy. The jury is out on all his coaches, and the jury is already out on Burrow. Dalton? After 9 years not so much. We know what we have in Dalton and most fans see him as a product of the talent around him more than a standout QB who makes everyone around him better. The jury is out that Burrow will be the ladder.

(12-23-2019, 01:24 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Lets just rebuild a team around an average 30+ year old QB then? Hmm. Thats very Mike Brown like...

Lets not forget the 9 years of AJ bailing Andy's poorly thrown balls out by being such an amazing WR who can adjust and win most 50/50 balls. WRs like AJ dont come around often. Without a WR of his caliber Andy doesnt look even above average and never has. We can draft and draft but finding another AJ is going to be a crap shoot.

Case in point about entitled and insufferable fans.

Look we all know that Burrow will be the pick.  We also know that Dalton is gone.  I can't wait to see if you will bash Burrow for his bad plays or blame others for not producing.  Hell even if we keep Green, it would be funny watching fans like you cry about Blowing Joe not connecting with the AMAZIN AJ Green.

Bungle for Burrow not complete until they draft Burrow.....

(12-23-2019, 01:36 PM)bengaloo Wrote: This is the Bengals man. If Burrow stinks it up, he will be called out proper just like everyone is. But fans are realistic and know we are in a rebuilding mode. It may take a year or two for a rookie QB and that is assuming ZT doesnt just completely blow and somehow with the right players can produce a high powered offense. The jury is out on this guy. The jury is out on all his coaches, and the jury is already out on Burrow. Dalton? After 9 years not so much. We know what we have in Dalton and most fans see him as a product of the talent around him more than a standout QB who makes everyone around him better. The jury is out that Burrow will be the ladder.

So it will be a mix then.... but no matter what.... without Dalton we have a MUCH better season this year right?  

(12-23-2019, 01:36 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Case in point about entitled and insufferable fans.

Look we all know that Burrow will be the pick.  We also know that Dalton is gone.  I can't wait to see if you will bash Burrow for his bad plays or blame others for not producing.  Hell even if we keep Green, it would be funny watching fans like you cry about Blowing Joe not connecting with the AMAZIN AJ Green.

Of course I will call Burrow out lol. If he completely stinks definitely. This is the Bengals. He will be having his head called for in his second game by some. Weve been with Andy 9 years. Very few fans share your thoughts about him sorry to say.

(12-23-2019, 01:37 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So it will be a mix then.... but no matter what.... without Dalton we have a MUCH better season this year right?  

With AJ and better blocking Andy couldve had another good year. And in Andy fashion wouldve most liklely laid an egg in the playoffs based on what we know from him.

What we really want is a team like Andy couldve performed better with, but also with a QB better than Andy behind center. Thats what fans really want. We want a more talented QB to have what Andy has had here in the past. A good supporting cast. 

(12-23-2019, 01:38 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Of course I will call Burrow out lol. If he completely stinks definitely. This is the Bengals. He will be having his head called for in his second game by some. Weve been with Andy 9 years. Very few fans share your thoughts about him sorry to say.

Exactly.....


Andy has been hated by fans even before he started playing.  Many wanted us to take Kaepernick or Mallet and were boohooing us taking Dalton.  They have been calling for Dalton's replacement every year for the past 9 years.  

(12-23-2019, 01:41 PM)bengaloo Wrote: With AJ and better blocking Andy couldve had another good year. And in Andy fashion wouldve most liklely laid an egg in the playoffs based on what we know from him.

What we really want is a team like Andy couldve performed better with, but also with a QB better than Andy behind center. Thats what fans really want. We want a more talented QB to have what Andy has had here in the past. A good supporting cast. 

Please.... Andy could have won a SB here and there are people like you that would be calling for us to "draft his replacement", because with a "better QB" we would have won multiple SBs...

That is the theme of these boards from what I have seen.

(12-23-2019, 01:41 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Exactly.....


Andy has been hated by fans even before he started playing.  Many wanted us to take Kaepernick or Mallet and were boohooing us taking Dalton.  They have been calling for Dalton's replacement every year for the past 9 years.  

I was taking up for Andy every year until this past year. He aging, hes rattled and its just time to move on. I loved the pick when we got him.

(12-23-2019, 01:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I was taking up for Andy every year until this past year. He aging, hes rattled and its just time to move on. I loved the pick when we got him.

Yes it is time to move on.  However that isn't gonna fix anything.  Getting Burrow will NOT improve this team.  Even if Burrow was the 2nd coming of Brady or Manning... our team will NOT improve.

This past season has blame that can go around for a while.... but it seems that you and others agree that if Burrow were in stripes this season we win every game.  Look what happened with Finley when they put him in?

(12-23-2019, 01:47 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yes it is time to move on.  However that isn't gonna fix anything.  Getting Burrow will NOT improve this team.  Even if Burrow was the 2nd coming of Brady or Manning... our team will NOT improve.

This past season has blame that can go around for a while.... but it seems that you and others agree that if Burrow were in stripes this season we win every game.  Look what happened with Finley when they put him in?

I totally agree. We need to build a solid team around Burrow for him to succeed. And beyond that, we need to keep the good pieces around him instead of letting players like Whitworth go. We have our work cut out for us.

For the record I was a Chase Young guy all year until a few weeks ago when I watched Burrow play in some big games, and honestly what he showed was more than Ive seen in a QB from college in a long time, and he did it against a bunch of future NFL ballers on Bama, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, etc. I mean what this guy has done is amazing. And he's not a one year wonder. He was solid as heck last year too, but this season his game is elevated in a way where even me, a defensive old school run and stop the run kind of guy can admit we cant pass it up on him. He may turn out special.

(12-23-2019, 12:47 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I already pointed out that when people defend Dalton, he is quick to throw out the word "excuses".

Yet when flipping it and pointing out that Mixon hasn't performed well all season, he throws out all of these "excuses".

It really is simple.  This OLine is so good and it is Dalton's fault for the bad season which is why we need Joe Burrow, but not good enough to get the supposedly great RB better production.  Only have to jump through a few mental hoops to get to this conclusion.

Some think it rests squarely on the QB, some realize it's a team sport, and that are only so many HOF signal callers in a lifetime. It's like those that thought Johnny Fartball would be the 2nd coming, not realizing that running around like a chicken with its head cut off and chucking up prayers to Mike Evans isn't sustainable at this level.

(12-23-2019, 01:50 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I totally agree. We need to build a solid team around Burrow for him to succeed. And beyond that, we need to keep the good pieces around him instead of letting players like Whitworth go. We have our work cut out for us.

How is that any different than Dalton?

When people talk about Dalton, they say he can't get it done without a solid team.  "He needs Green"... yet Burrow needs the same thing.

Don't you see how messed up that sounds?

(12-23-2019, 01:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I was taking up for Andy every year until this past year. He aging, hes rattled and its just time to move on. I loved the pick when we got him.

Yeah, he was definitely rattled after the first few weeks this year. A fresh start could do everyone wonders at this point.