I know this will upset many who want AD gone, those who attack him and call him a bum and worse.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001091582/article/offensive-player-rankings-week-17-3-offenses-in-need-of-revamp

It places the blame on our offense on our OL (we all agree) and on ZT and his 60% pass play calling thus under utilizing Mixon. It also points out the lack of play action used by ZT.

Personally, I think AD needs a change of scenery like many and time for Joe Burrow or best QB in draft (projected). But it does align what many have said, trade down and get more picks to rebuild the OL and then look at QB in round 2 or late round 1.

It also places the offensive woes squarely on ZT, not AD as many believed to be the main problem.

Thoughts??

True. AD is part of the overall problem but not the main one. He has had at least moderate success when we had a good OL and a good OC. We have neither at the moment, so AD is not able to carry a team - never could. But he can be a great backup for someone.

15tds, 13 int’s. He may not be the problem, but not part of the solution either.

I have a hard time thinking anyone believes AD is the MAIN problem. I think many would agree though, that Andy does not have the ability to mask any team issues, but amplifies them a majority of the time (aside from his quick release).

The MAIN problem is obviously our owner, but yes, Andy actually is one of the bigger problems as well. Even when we had a pretty solid team around him he couldn’t get us over the hump. Time to move on.

It depends.

What offense will the Bengals run in 2020 and beyond?

If Cincinnati decides upon a traditional pocket passer-run offense with some planned rollouts, then by all means take Joe Burrow or stick with Andy Dalton through 2020.

If the Bengals want a more RPO-type Lamar Jackson Lite offense, then don’t pick Joe Burrow. In that case either pick Jalen Hurts or see if signing Cam Newton is possible.

A balanced offense with run and pass is what the Bengals decide upon? Then taking Tua Tagovailoa might be the best idea.

Either we fit the player to the system or build a system around a player. Right now the Bengals’ inept offensive staff is using the “throw jello at the wall and see what sticks” method.

Andy's career qb rating is 87.6. There is a large body of work here. Never bad enough to bench, but except for one year, never really dominant either.

He was obviously part of the problem with Marvin the past few years.

Now with ZT as well.

Both Marvin as of late, and ZT as new, have the exact major issue.  Poor O-line play and lack of talent/depth.

Except Taylor isn't balancing the offense with run/pass and it's making the team one dimensional and flat.

That is why Zac only has one win, and is about to be the worst first year coach we've ever had.

All that being said and coupling with Dalton's inability to make plays is why he is under the microscope of scrutiny more than ever.

Most teams without post-season let alone regular season success eventually move on.

Perhaps now is the time for Andy.

I have no problem with fans being done with Dalton as the starting QB but have MAJOR doubts about Zac Taylor being HC for any NFL team.

Of course he isn't the main problem.  He's perfectly capable of playing around the level of say Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers, or Matt Ryan depending on the year.  The question is do you decide to build around him or do you seek a new foundation.  The bridge may not be totally burned, but the whole "happy birthday, you're benched" thing was pretty cold.  After that, the boos, constantly changing OCs, and watching his line fall apart...the guy is only human.  A change of scenery may be good for both parties.

(12-25-2019, 12:48 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It depends.

What offense will the Bengals run in 2020 and beyond?  

If Cincinnati decides upon a traditional pocket passer-run offense with some planned rollouts, then by all means take Joe Burrow or stick with Andy Dalton through 2020.

If the Bengals want a more RPO-type Lamar Jackson Lite offense, then don’t pick Joe Burrow.  In that case either pick Jalen Hurts or see if signing Cam Newton is possible.

A balanced offense with run and pass is what the Bengals decide upon?  Then taking Tua Tagovailoa might be the best idea.  

Either we fit the player to the system or build a system around a player.  Right now the Bengals’ inept offensive staff is using the “throw jello at the wall and see what sticks” method.

LSU runs a very heavy shotgun RPO offense...with NFL reads and concepts for the QB.

I think you are talking about the read option.

(12-25-2019, 01:53 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Of course he isn't the main problem.  He's perfectly capable of playing around the level of say Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers, or Matt Ryan depending on the year.  The question is do you decide to build around him or do you seek a new foundation.  The bridge may not be totally burned, but the whole "happy birthday, you're benched" thing was pretty cold.  After that, the boos, constantly changing OCs, and watching his line fall apart...the the guy is only human.  A change of scenery may be good for both parties.

This.....is EXACTLY right.

(12-25-2019, 12:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 15tds, 13 int’s. He may not be the problem, but not part of the solution either.

Not a good season from him by any means and he even had a good Center in front of him finally so he could step into a 
pocket. Dalton has never been the problem except in the big games where he continually failed to play well over and over
again. We need to build up the O-line, Draft Burrow and Linebackers that is....

After we replace coaches which is the main problem around here.

(12-25-2019, 04:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: After we replace coaches which is the main problem around here.

Yes, exactly! If Joe Burrow plays for the current coaching staff he’ll be a bust.

If I were to narrow down to one glaring problem with the Cincinnati Bengal franchise it would be Mike Brown.

With that said, nine years with Andy Dalton and the closest the Cincinnati Bengals have come to winning a playoff game was with a backup quarterback.

(12-25-2019, 06:37 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If I were to narrow down to one glaring problem with the Cincinnati Bengal franchise it would be Mike Brown.

With that said, nine years with Andy Dalton and the closest the Cincinnati Bengals have come to winning a playoff game was with a backup quarterback.

... And that backup played like poo in that game. The way the defense kept us in that game, it's safe to say that if we had somewhat competent QB play in the first 3 quarters, we win that game.

(12-25-2019, 12:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 15tds, 13 int’s. He may not be the problem, but not part of the solution either.

I agree, Average Andy isn't the main issue, but he's shown time and again that he doesn't have the ability to "kick it up" and carry the team through hard adversity, like the great ones do.  Playoff games, prime time games, late season games versus quality teams have all been for the most part, disappointing, with Andy as the QB.

As long as we're rebuilding the team, I'd prefer that they do it around a rookie QB with a really high ceiling, like Joe Burrow.  The roster of this team definitely needs some help, but it's not so downtrodden that one solid draft, along with a moderate investment in free agency, that they can't put a competitive squad out there.  

More than just player/personnel changes, they need to really rethink the offensive play calling philosophy, and Taylor needs to resign to the fact that he needs a detail oriented taskmaster to assume the role as Defensive Coordinator, and allow him to do his thing.

(12-25-2019, 01:53 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Of course he isn't the main problem.  He's perfectly capable of playing around the level of say Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers, or Matt Ryan depending on the year.  The question is do you decide to build around him or do you seek a new foundation.  The bridge may not be totally burned, but the whole "happy birthday, you're benched" thing was pretty cold.  After that, the boos, constantly changing OCs, and watching his line fall apart...the the guy is only human.  A change of scenery may be good for both parties.

The Alex Smith comparison I agree with, the others not so much...

(12-25-2019, 11:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: . But it does align what many have said, trade down and get more picks to rebuild the OL and then look at QB in round 2 or late round 1.


Thoughts??

It boils down to opinion, which is why I'd rather take a guy like burrow that is widely regarded as the first quarterback (and if you weigh in tuas situation, by a pretty decent margin). If we've got 2020s "Mr Quarterback" then it takes the talent issue out of the argument. 

Mostly,anyway. There's always going to be that guy who says "see,I told you he was going to bust out!".

(12-25-2019, 07:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree, Average Andy isn't the main issue, but he's shown time and again that he doesn't have the ability to "kick it up" and carry the team through hard adversity, like the great ones do.  Playoff games, prime time games, late season games versus quality teams have all been for the most part, disappointing, with Andy as the QB.

As long as we're rebuilding the team, I'd prefer that they do it around a rookie QB with a really high ceiling, like Joe Burrow.  The roster of this team definitely needs some help, but it's not so downtrodden that one solid draft, along with a moderate investment in free agency, that they can't put a competitive squad out there.  

More than just player/personnel changes, they need to really rethink the offensive play calling philosophy, and Taylor needs to resign to the fact that he needs a detail oriented taskmaster to assume the role as Defensive Coordinator, and allow him to do his thing.

That I agree with.


Honestly guys even with the injury to Green.  What excuse does any NFL coach have for winning only one game with the rest of the roster?

You guys can fantasize all you want about Taylor showing us his beautiful football brain.

He is terrible. :paul:

(12-25-2019, 11:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know this will upset many who want AD gone, those who attack him and call him a bum and worse.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001091582/article/offensive-player-rankings-week-17-3-offenses-in-need-of-revamp

It places the blame on our offense on our OL (we all agree) and on ZT and his 60% pass play calling thus under utilizing Mixon. It also points out the lack of play action used by ZT.

Personally, I think AD needs a change of scenery like many and time for Joe Burrow or best QB in draft (projected). But it does align what many have said, trade down and get more picks to rebuild the OL and then look at QB in round 2 or late round 1.

It also places the offensive woes squarely on ZT, not AD as many believed to be the main problem.

Thoughts??

The article is correct. Andy Dalton is not the main issue. We aren't going to win a championship with him, but he's not a bad QB.


ZT has been awful. There's no way to sugar coat a 1 win season, first year HC or not. He needs to be gone and the team needs to make new plans cause their now old and stale New Dey plan fell flat on its face from game one and has never even gotten to its knees.

It's time to cut the losses or this team could enter a second lost decade.