(12-30-2019, 12:47 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: The QB FA market will be flooded this off-season. His perceived value may have more to do with demand than ability.

Brees
Brady
Prescott
Marriota sp?
Tannehill
Rivers
Manning
Bridgewater
Keenum
Winston
Bortles

Plus QBs probably available while still under contract
Dalton
Newton
Flacco
Rosen.

What are the "QB hungry" teams that will be willing to trade after the FA dust settles?

All of those bolded are current starting QB's, so if they leave their current teams, the old team needs a replacement.

My point being yes a lot of free agents, but the demand will be high for starting QB's, it always is as teams look for answers at QB. Jags also may be looking as Nick did not do well. I don't see Brees going anywhere.

I believe Pats will be in dire need as Brady retires catching them off guard.

(12-30-2019, 10:47 AM)HuDey Wrote: That’s a good question and I personally don’t view Andy as a player that that I would want to give up draft capital for with the FA options available. I wouldn’t expect a great return from an Andy trade but you still have to explore it and see what interest is out there.

If you are one of the teams the other QBs are leaving and have a decent team who can't get one of the top QBs in the draft then I could see them wanting a stop gap solution for 2020. Late second or third would be a fair market value.

(12-30-2019, 10:47 AM)HuDey Wrote: That’s a good question and I personally don’t view Andy as a player that that I would want to give up draft capital for with the FA options available. I wouldn’t expect a great return from an Andy trade but you still have to explore it and see what interest is out there.

It really is a good question. With Dalton, I think the 2 things that help his trade market are that he's only due $17.7m next year and he only has 1 year left on his deal. So even if you trade a 2nd or 3rd for him, he's not busting your cap and you're only tied to him for 1 season. If he performs well, they can talk extension/new deal, if it doesn't go as planned you only lost a draft pick. I think teams may consider that a better option than paying $25m+ a year for 4+ years. I could be completely wrong, but that's how I'm looking at it.

(12-30-2019, 11:17 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: It really is a good question. With Dalton, I think the 2 things that help his trade market are that he's only due $17.7m next year and he only has 1 year left on his deal. So even if you trade a 2nd or 3rd for him, he's not busting your cap and you're only tied to him for 1 season. If he performs well, they can talk extension/new deal, if it doesn't go as planned you only lost a draft pick. I think teams may consider that a better option than paying $25m+ a year for 4+ years. I could be completely wrong, but that's how I'm looking at it.

AD is a very experienced NFL starting QB with a decent contract (short term) and as his teammates said yesterday a great leader who works his ass off on and off the field.

I know many hate AD and want him to never play again, but he will and my guess is those haters fear he may make them look silly if he does.

Back to this thread, I believe AD tells the FO and coaching staff his wishes for 2020 today at their final meeting. That wish is to be a starting QB, preferably right here, but if not possible he will ask to be traded. Just a hunch.

(12-30-2019, 12:47 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: The QB FA market will be flooded this off-season. His perceived value may have more to do with demand than ability.

Brees
Brady
Prescott
Marriota sp?
Tannehill
Rivers
Manning
Bridgewater
Keenum
Winston
Bortles

Plus QBs probably available while still under contract
Dalton
Newton
Flacco
Rosen.

What are the "QB hungry" teams that will be willing to trade after the FA dust settles?

There are a lot of QBs that are available and there is the draft. There will be some teams that are in "win now" mode and will take a flyer. While I'll get blasted, if I'm a GM, I'd rather trade for Dalton than sign/trade for Mariota, Manning, Keenum, Winston, Bortles, Flacco, or Rosen.

If Brees doesn't retire, he'll stay in New Orleans. If he does retire, Bridgewater will stay in New Orleans. If Brady retires, they may look for a stop gap or roll with Stidham. I think Prescott stays in Dallas. According to reports, Tennessee has already reached out to Tannehill about wanting to re-sign him. Rivers could be on the move which would open up the Chargers job. I don't remember if Fitzpatrick will be a free agent or not, but if so Miami may want to keep Rosen. Also been reading that Gruden may be done with Carr in Oakland. That could be another QB hitting the market and another open position.

Just my thoughts on some of these situations. I think there will be a market for Dalton. It may not be a big market, but there will be some teams that are interested. $17.7m for a starting QB and a draft pick seems like a better option than signing a free agent for $25m+ for a few years.

(12-30-2019, 11:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: AD is a very experienced NFL starting QB with a decent contract (short term) and as his teammates said yesterday a great leader who works his ass off on and off the field.

I know many hate AD and want him to never play again, but he will and my guess is those haters fear he may make them look silly if he does.

Back to this thread, I believe AD tells the FO and coaching staff his wishes for 2020 today ath their final meeting. That wish is to be a starting QB, preferably right here, but if not possible he will ask to be traded. Just a hunch.

While I'm in the minority, I won't be upset if Dalton is the starter next year while Burrow rides the pine and prepares for 2021. I'm not saying that's the best option, but that could an option the Bengals consider.

I'm a fan of Dalton and will follow his career after he's done in Cincinnati. Obviously I hope that Burrow comes in and takes us to the promised land, but I'll still hope for Dalton to find success as long as it's not against the Bengals.

I believe there's a market for him and that he'll be a starter for a few more years in the NFL.

(12-30-2019, 11:31 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: While I'm in the minority, I won't be upset if Dalton is the starter next year while Burrow rides the pine and prepares for 2021. I'm not saying that's the best option, but that could an option the Bengals consider.

I'm a fan of Dalton and will follow his career after he's done in Cincinnati. Obviously I hope that Burrow comes in and takes us to the promised land, but I'll still hope for Dalton to find success as long as it's not against the Bengals.

I believe there's a market for him and that he'll be a starter for a few more years in the NFL.

^^^^

Good points.

I think AD will be a starting QB in the NFL for the next 7 or 8 years. It just won't be in Cincinnati. I wish him well.

(12-30-2019, 12:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: What do you think we can get for a 33 year old QB entering his 10th year coming off a season where he finished 32nd out of 32 QBs that qualified in the NFL?

I don't want him traded. I want him to play or mentor (hopefully mentor) 

What is the ranking he finished 32nd out of 32?  And do you think, perhaps, his surrounding cast had just a little to do with that?  No Green, no Ross for much of the season, pathetic offensive line (there is a SURE 32nd ranked unit) and a defense that earlier in the season couldn't stop anyone?

(12-30-2019, 11:36 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ^^^^

Good points.

I think AD will be a starting QB in the NFL for the next 7 or 8 years. It just won't be in Cincinnati. I wish him well.

I think Dalton can start and he isn't done, but the idea of him being a starting QB into his 40s seems unlikely. 

I'd like to see him flirt with some relevance elsewhere like he who shant be named.  

(12-30-2019, 12:48 AM)samhain Wrote: Eh, I don't think Andy has it in him to show his ass if the family doesn't let him go.  You might hear some grumbling from his agent, but he's a good soldier.  

I personally think that the team is doing him a disservice if they prevent him from going to a place where he will start.  I'm not quite positive that such a place exists, but it probably does.  If they truly appreciate his service, they shouldn't block him.

My question is whether or not the family would keep him as a starter in 2020 al-la Kitna/Palmer 03.  That redshirt year approach is less common  in the current era, but the Brown family is as old school as they come.  

As a fan, I want them to get something out of him.  I'd take a 3rd if it's offered, maybe even a 4th.  They need all the picks they can get.

This.  The Brown family does not operate the same as other franchises.  Wouldn't surprise me on bit if they drafted Burrow and made him sent the bench behind Dalton for a year - forcing Dalton to finish out his contract.   

If there's a backwards way to approach this thing they will take that route.  Too much history to suggest otherwise.  Guarantee as they are assessing this past season they are thinking they are close and just had some tough breaks.  Insanity will again prevail.  Seen this played out too many times before.

Lots of good QBs on the market for sure. As it stands now based on everyone else being where they are, I could see Dalton in Chicago, Tampa, maybe even Carolina, as their rookie QB Will Grier looked completely lost out there the last two weeks. I do think some teams will want him and if they dont then restructure his deal and make him Burrows backup. Andy as a person and a backup QB would be loved.

(12-30-2019, 12:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That would be total waste of money. We have multiple QB coaches on this staff, he doesn’t need Dalton to mentor him.

If we can get a 2nd or 3rd for him you do it and you don’t think twice.

This is my thought also, and remember, when McCarron was here as the backup, they very nearly completed a trade of him for a 2nd round pick to Cleveland.  

If you look at Dalton as the backup (1st overall picks almost always start at QB), then why keep him?  Maybe there will be a unique opportunity to get a draft pick AND a player?  

The team I keep coming back to is Tampa.  Fitting they lost their last game of the season on another pick-6 by Jamies Winston.  In OT, no less.  I don't know his contract status, but you simply can't be a turnover machine and win in the NFL.  The rest of that team seems pretty capable.  

Another oddball possibility is Dallas.  I don't see them paying Dak $35 million per year.  Dalton could be lethal on that team.  They could draft a QB and have Dalton as a one year "prove it".  Dallas is the most amazing marketing franchise in sports.  They could sell Dalton and have their fans thinking they will be favorites to win the Super Bowl (again) and might not crap the bed (again).

We need a new direction.. Anyone up for the gutter instead of the dumpster fire? At least in the gutter they have a chance to wash out to sea and flourish as  dangerous, toxic algae blooms..

(12-30-2019, 11:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What is the ranking he finished 32nd out of 32?  And do you think, perhaps, his surrounding cast had just a little to do with that?  No Green, no Ross for much of the season, pathetic offensive line (there is a SURE 32nd ranked unit) and a defense that earlier in the season couldn't stop anyone?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Andy Dalton was sacked the 12th most in the NFL. Let ne save you from the "bur he missed 3 games" defense. Only 5 QB in the NFl attempted more passes than Andy yet was sacked less. 

He had a fine supporting crew. He had a WR catch for over 1000 yards and a RB rush for over 1000 yards. 

Unsure what the defense has to do with Andy's performance, but sure, use it as another excuse if you must.

The team was clicking on all cylinders yesterday and he managed a passer rating in the 70s.

Folks around here love Andy and I get that. Professional NFL personnel people have no loyalty to him. If we're not willing to pay him $17 Mil as a back up and/or compete against a promising youngster what makes folks think other teams will?

(12-30-2019, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Andy Dalton was sacked the 12th most in the NFL. Let ne save you from the "bur he missed 3 games" defense. Only 5 QB in the NFl attempted more passes than Andy yet was sacked less. 

He had a fine supporting crew. He had a WR catch for over 1000 yards and a RB rush for over 1000 yards. 

Unsure what the defense has to do with Andy's performance, but sure, use it as another excuse if you must.

The team was clicking on all cylinders yesterday and he managed a passer rating in the 70s.

Folks around here love Andy and I get that. Professional NFL personnel people have no loyalty to him. If we're not willing to pay him $17 Mil as a back up and/or compete against a promising youngster what makes folks think other teams will?

How other teams use him if he's traded is anyone's guess. Of course other teams owe him zero loyalty. He's never played for any of them.
I think there's plenty of other teams who would jump at the chance for Andy and a few who might even mortgage their futures on the chance he returns to 2015 form. It's not like the Bengals are the only team that ever makes dumb moves..

(12-30-2019, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Andy Dalton was sacked the 12th most in the NFL. Let ne save you from the "bur he missed 3 games" defense. Only 5 QB in the NFl attempted more passes than Andy yet was sacked less. 

He had a fine supporting crew. He had a WR catch for over 1000 yards and a RB rush for over 1000 yards. 

Unsure what the defense has to do with Andy's performance, but sure, use it as another excuse if you must.

The team was clicking on all cylinders yesterday and he managed a passer rating in the 70s.

Folks around here love Andy and I get that. Professional NFL personnel people have no loyalty to him. If we're not willing to pay him $17 Mil as a back up and/or compete against a promising youngster what makes folks think other teams will?

Sorry, bud, but watching the Bengals on offense, you saw virtually NO downfield shots because of a lack of outside speed and not enough time to get downfield.  Dalton isn't sacked a lot because of his quick release and the offense being designed to get the ball out quickly.  While that is ok on the surface, it tremendously limits what an offense can do and makes it easier for a defense to attack when they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top.  

He does not have a "fine" supporting crew.  He has the worst offensive line in football.  

How can you not comprehend how a bad defense hurts a QB?  Brady played like CRAP for most of the game against Cincy, but his defense KEPT GETTING HIM THE BALL.  Piggy made a living of this.  

As far as clicking on all cylinders goes, they were doing that in 2015 when his rating was over 100.  That was a team with weapons and an offensive line.  

(12-30-2019, 12:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry, bud, but watching the Bengals on offense, you saw virtually NO downfield shots because of a lack of outside speed and not enough time to get downfield.  Dalton isn't sacked a lot because of his quick release and the offense being designed to get the ball out quickly.  While that is ok on the surface, it tremendously limits what an offense can do and makes it easier for a defense to attack when they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top.  

He does not have a "fine" supporting crew.  He has the worst offensive line in football.  

How can you not comprehend how a bad defense hurts a QB?  Brady played like CRAP for most of the game against Cincy, but his defense KEPT GETTING HIM THE BALL.  Piggy made a living of this.  

As far as clicking on all cylinders goes, they were doing that in 2015 when his rating was over 100.  That was a team with weapons and an offensive line.  

It's pretty simple really.. a bad defense makes a QB play from behind most days and makes them one dimensional throwing the ball over and over. Even great QBs find it tough to play from behind game after game after game.. 

(12-30-2019, 01:29 AM)BengalChris Wrote:
Loyalty is a two-way street and Taylor wasn't exactly very loyal to Dalton this season and tried to blame Dalton for his own inept game planning, play design and play calling, and frankly, his complete failure as a HC this season.

I'd rather see a mentor be someone who actually wanted to be a mentor.

 

You've said this twice now, and it's simply not true. When Taylor benched Andy to see what Finley brought to the table, he was very clear that the record and problems were not  Andy's fault, and that he was simply looking to see if Finley could spark something. 

Andy wants to start, and he can somewhere else. The Bengals will trade him and allow him that opportunity, if they draft Burrow. They can get rid of his last year contract money and use some of it for Green. They will also bring in someone like Fitz, who will come in with experience, but knowing they are the backup. They will do this to avoid the QB controversy if Burrow loses the 1st game and Bengaldom starts screaming to bench him and play Andy.

The Flacco experiment in Denver is just proof that good QBs need to retire and not all of them can play forever. Brady, Brees, Gore, among others however, can.
The Broncos switched to Lock and started winning going 4-1.

We tried the same but unfortunately our coach, talent and Finley was not enough.

Andy will be sought out and I still think the Patriots will seriously try to get him and AJ. They know we have the talent but lack the coaches to best utilize them.