(01-02-2020, 06:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So coming into this year where did you have him?? People that scout for a living did not have him in even 1st round....If you look at combine of Dalton, his arm was NFL caliber and we could bring the rope he threw a few weeks ago to show Andy's arm strength is still good. Besides I'm comparing him to Mannings, Luck , Newton still they were 1st pick in draft not 2md round like Dalton... this kid is more hyped after 1 great season and nothing before that than anyone I can remember. 

thats the worry.....  consistancy.. Hes had a great year this year.    But where was it before? will it be there after? or did all the stars just align for this season  for him

(01-02-2020, 03:26 PM)Synric Wrote: Remember this year when he went 21 of 24 for 293 and 3 TDs against Florida. Remember when he went 31 of 39 for 393 and 3 TDs against Alabama?

Funny that same arguments we heard with Dalton, up and down play..hmm or it's the system that makes Andy good, cant we worry about the same with Burrow? The difference is we are talking 1st pick not 2nd round pick..maybe the risk is not worth the reward of multiple picks and a QB like Herbert or Tua...

(01-02-2020, 04:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Well, that and his height. It may only be 2 inches, but Burrow being taller probably makes for less batted balls at the line of scrimmage.

Interesting you brought that up. I watched Herbert yesterday at 6'6 and they were swatting his balls (that didn't sound good) down left and right.

I guess the same people who are knocking Burrow for only producing his senior year didn't want the Bengals to draft Palmer either. Palmer also took a massive step forward his senior year compared to previous years.

Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2001 USC Pac-10 JR QB 12 221 377 58.6 2717 7.2 6.5 13 12 124.2
2002 USC Pac-10 SR QB 13 309 489 63.2 3942 8.1 8.5 33 10 149.1


you know what I won't knock a quarterback for? Improving each year.

(01-02-2020, 05:39 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: In your dream world was Burrow throwing it out of bounds??

Dalton was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league his first 6 years. If Borrow can reach his heights it will be a positive.

(01-02-2020, 05:47 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Ryan Finley is the same height and at least 10lbs lighter and doesnt have nearly the muscle definition of Burrow and Finley is 2 years older. How is Burrow exactly like Finley? That's a pretty big reach whoever compared Burrow to Finley.

Dalton and Burrow are totally different QBs its just not a good comparison at all. The only reason this is even being talked about is because Walter Football coming into the season had Burrow's closest NFL comparison listed as Dalton and Carr. Walter Football gets more wrong than they get right lol. But this is how lame analogies get started, is by websites like Walter Football. They write little write-ups about hundreds of players every year for entertainment and hits, and they are often pretty off base.

They the same height and weigh. Both need to pack on some weight.

And if you think the Dalton comparison is bad, then you don't want to see other comparisons out there.

Look I'm team Burrow through and through. But he isn't the elite prospect from a physical or talent standpoint that folks are making him out to be. We aren't talking about a Palmer, Cam, Wentz, Luck prospect here. Far from it. This is a very weak QB draft class. Nothing like 2018's class. If we had more options or even if Tua wasn't hurt, there'd be far more debate on who we'd take. So it's not as clear cut as folks make it sound now that he's the only and best option. He has what we call "intangibles" which is what Dalton and prospects like them have lived off of because of their limitations. Not their physical gifts. We have to understand and accept that. He has the "it" factor. A far better leader of men outwardly and emotionally then Dalton showed, and seems to be clutch. All worthy of the 1st overall pick in my book.

(01-02-2020, 06:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So coming into this year where did you have him?? People that scout for a living did not have him in even 1st round....

Yet, those very same scouts now do have him in the 1st round...very high in the 1st round.

(01-02-2020, 06:14 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: All of the offense was there or came in when Burrow did. 

Passing  coordinator Joe Brady just arrived this year.

Jamarr Chase and Terrace Marshall were freshmen last year (NOT 4th year 23 year old freshmen like Burrow)

Andy Dalton

-Likes his cheeseburgers plain with no condiments
-Likes his women with a strong sense of family and blonde
-Prefers gum over chewing tobacco

Joe Burrow

-Like everything on his cheeseburgers and extra bacon
-Likes any type of women because hes only 24 and sowing the seeds of love
-Prefers anything over chewing tobacco because he knows any of that stuff will eventually kill you.

Do you want me to keep comparing the two? Ok last thing

Andy Daltons favorite video games

-Mario Party
-Yoshi series
-Sonic Adventures

Joe Burrows favorite video games

-Doom
-Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
-Half Life series

they are both similar in that they were newspaper delivery boys as kids and would always throw the paper at customers doorsteps..


What other comparisons of importance would you be interested in hearing?

(01-02-2020, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Passing  coordinator Joe Brady just arrived this year.

Jamarr Chase and Terrace Marshall were freshmen last year (NOT 4th year 23 year old freshmen like Burrow)

Lol can you imagine the QBs you would have to take off your board if you say coaching and talented WRs?

Tua Tagovailoa, Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts...

The only leg you have to stand on is the one year success and still you arent even discussing him as a prospect you are judt writing him off because it's only 1 year.

(01-02-2020, 06:59 PM)MentalRage Wrote: I guess the same people who are knocking Burrow for only producing his senior year didn't want the Bengals to draft Palmer either. Palmer also took a massive step forward his senior year compared to previous years.

Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2001 USC Pac-10 JR QB 12 221 377 58.6 2717 7.2 6.5 13 12 124.2
2002 USC Pac-10 SR QB 13 309 489 63.2 3942 8.1 8.5 33 10 149.1


you know what I won't knock a quarterback for? Improving each year.

Coming into senior year Palmer had 5,000 more yards and tons more experience and tape and was discussed as 1sr round QB since junior year..and if Burrows gives us what Palmer did as 1st pick we should be disappointed,  Oalmer did not live up in 1st pick in draft..

(01-02-2020, 07:10 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yet, those very same scouts now do have him in the 1st round...very high in the 1st round.

That should worry u then ..I can remember another QB that rose greatly his senior year to being picked #2 in draft.. ryan Leaf..

(01-02-2020, 07:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: Look I'm team Burrow through and through. But he isn't the elite prospect from a physical or talent standpoint that folks are making him out to be. We aren't talking about a Palmer, Cam, Wentz, Luck prospect here. Far from it. This is a very weak QB draft class. Nothing like 2018's class. If we had more options or even if Tua wasn't hurt, there'd be far more debate on who we'd take. So it's not as clear cut as folks make it sound now that he's the only and best option. He has what we call "intangibles" which is what Dalton and prospects like them have lived off of because of their limitations. Not their physical gifts. We have to understand and accept that. He has the "it" factor. A far better leader of men outwardly and emotionally then Dalton showed, and seems to be clutch. All worthy of the 1st overall pick in my book.

Carson Palmer Senior Stats 3942 yards  33TD's  10INTs
Joe Burrow Senior Stats      5208 Yards  55 TDs  6INTs and Burrow has 1 more game to play.


Burrow did that against harder defenses than you'll find in the Pac12. Wentz numbers cant compare to either of those 2 guys so its not worth listing. I dont see how any one of those is more elite than the other coming out of college.

Let's remember here that until Burrow LSU did not run an offense where QBs could put up big numbers. Also there were three QBs being ranked as first rounders:

Burrow

Tua - potential career ending injury

Herbert - Oregon QBs have a horrific NFL success record

If Tua were 100% healthy I would consider him but not with that injury - we've had enough problems with first rounders not playing their rookie year.

(01-02-2020, 07:35 PM)bengaloo Wrote:  I dont see how any one of those is more elite than the other coming out of college.

If you just look at numbers then you really don't understand how to grade college QBs.

Andrew Luck was the highest rated QB prospect of the last decade and his best season of 3517 passing yards ranks 258th in college history.

(01-02-2020, 07:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's remember here that until Burrow LSU did not run an offense where QBs could put up big numbers. Also there were three QBs being ranked as first rounders:

Burrow

Tua - potential career ending injury

Herbert - Oregon QBs have a horrific NFL success record

If Tua were 100% healthy I would consider him but not with that injury - we've had enough problems with first rounders not playing their rookie year.

Burrow was not ranked as 1st rounder in the summer  in some rankings I found did not have him a 2nd roundet.  Fromm was ranked in 1st round coming into season with Tua and Herbert. And I would not want LSU history of QB drafted over last 15 years.. Russell.was a bust

(01-02-2020, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you just look at numbers then you really don't understand how to grade college QBs.

Andrew Luck was the highest rated QB prospect of the last decade and his best season of 3517 passing yards ranks 258th in college history.

I dont just look at the numbers but even if I did the fact remains, its all a guessing game based mostly on opinion until the players are in the NFL playing. Joe Burrow in 2 years has put up great numbers and did some pretty magical stuff this season in the toughest conference in the NCAA. His stats are not even what lured me into him. It was literally watching him play. The way he handles pressure, the way he moves, the way he leads his WRs open, his fire, his demeanor. His stats are only part of the story with Burrow. Also he is from OH and grew up playing in bad weather and knows the fan base and I think that can make a difference.

Also, Joe's JR stats were almost identical to Carson's JR stats. The only real argument is that he wasnt a 4 years starter. Thats all. If thats the case, then maybe his ceiling is even higher. Its entirely possible.

And once again, this thread is about how similar style QBs Dalton and Joe Burrow are. Just the fact that has lead to comparing Burrow with the likes of Palmer, Luck and Wentz says ALOT about what people really think of Burrow whether they admit it or not. Nobody is gonna compare Dalton to any of those guys.

(01-02-2020, 06:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So coming into this year where did you have him?? People that scout for a living did not have him in even 1st round....If you look at combine of Dalton, his arm was NFL caliber and we could bring the rope he threw a few weeks ago to show Andy's arm strength is still good. Besides I'm comparing him to Mannings, Luck , Newton still they were 1st pick in draft not 2md round like Dalton... this kid is more hyped after 1 great season and nothing before that than anyone I can remember. 

You mean the same scouts that had Brady as a sixth rounder? Players develop some digress. Sports writers have him as the best player in college in 2019. I'll take their word this year over the scouts opinion last year.

(01-02-2020, 08:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  And I would not want LSU history of QB drafted over last 15 years.. Russell.was a bust

Nor Ohio State's or Urban Meyer's history of successful NFL QB's.