(01-03-2020, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Funny, how you throw that in there about Burrow. Tua I suppose is doing it all on his own ?

Yeah, Tua had nothing to work with at all brother....

(01-03-2020, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Funny, how you throw that in there about Burrow. Tua I suppose is doing it all on his own ?

Yeah, i'd like to know how he knows Tua is "clearly more skilled" when he freely admits he doesn't have the ability to "scout" players and Tua is doing it with the same kind of talent that Burrow is. 

hmmm.

(01-03-2020, 07:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Two of those last four games were against 2-10 Arkansas and 2-11 Rice.

But why look at a full season when you can cherry pick just four.

You're trying to say he didn't show anything last year. If he's going to show "improvement", that usually happens in the 2nd half of the season, no?

The last 2 games he played in last year were @ #22 Texas A&M and #8 UCF in a bowl game which just happened to snap UCFs 25 game winning streak. He was 7/1 TD to INT in those games to end the year. 

That's not improvement and pointing towards what he's capable of? They weren't a positive thing?

(01-03-2020, 10:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, Tua had nothing to work with at all brother....

(01-03-2020, 11:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yeah, i'd like to know how he knows Tua is "clearly more skilled" when he freely admits he doesn't have the ability to "scout" players and Tua is doing it with the same kind of talent that Burrow is. 

hmmm.

Yes, Alabama hasn't put any players in the NFL in years and I doubt there will be any in the near future.   Moreover Saban and Co. are horrible coaches, haven't won anything lately.

(01-03-2020, 11:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yes, Alabama hasn't put any players in the NFL in years and I doubt there will be any in the near future.   Moreover Saban and Co. are horrible coaches, haven't won anything lately.

Seriously, if anything LSU has been the underwhelming SEC team of the two...

Until Burrow got there.

(01-03-2020, 11:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yeah, i'd like to know how he knows Tua is "clearly more skilled" when he freely admits he doesn't have the ability to "scout" players and Tua is doing it with the same kind of talent that Burrow is. 

hmmm.

Funny thing about pre-season "rankings" too. 

Entering 2018 Tua Tagovailoa was one of the higher ranking SEC QBs even though he had only played half a game...an amazing half a game but still half a game and had to still beat out Jalen Hurts for the job.

(01-02-2020, 07:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league his first 6 years. If Borrow can reach his heights it will be a positive.

He was for 2 of those 6....and AJ played a big part in that. He consistently misses big plays deep.


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(01-02-2020, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you just look at numbers then you really don't understand how to grade college QBs.

Andrew Luck was the highest rated QB prospect of the last decade and his best season of 3517 passing yards ranks 258th in college history.

Fred often times has some very good points. He comes across as cocksure to me.

I’m a Burrow fan, and his lack of production before this year scares me. Seeing what he does outside the framework of the play is mind blowing this season. His arm strength isn’t elite(but it doesn’t bother me at all). His accuracy short, medium and deep are unbelievable this season. His anticipation is elite. His pocket awareness is elite this season.

His past is a red flag, but the season he put up this year is among the best I’ve ever seen in collage football. He has also faced many big teams and challenges this year...and crushed each one.

Burrow has a Brady-like work ethic and approach which often times goes unnoticed in the fan scouting process. The way Jefferson mentions Joe leading this team really blows me away.

Burrow is a risk, but the reward is something this franchise needs. A team like the Colts, Packers, or Bengals need a QB to make the step to good team. It’s the only position that can transcend bad management. We will need other players as well, especially at LB! Dalton was never the problem, but he was also never the answer.....Burrow might not be, but he can be! That’s worth the risk he comes with to me.


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(01-03-2020, 02:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So taking a sack and not protecting the ball have nothing to do with pocket presence?

WTF are we even talking about then?  Whatever it is I will take 50% fewer sacks and one-third the number of fumbles over your idea of "pocket presence".

IMO Findlay's sacks had little to nothing to do with pocket presence and everything to do with inexperience.  Dalton is very decisive and quick to get rid of the ball.  Findlay had not developed that yet (or maybe never would) so it led to sacks.

This is a silly discussion because it seems people assume if you are pro Burrow that you are anti Dalton.  For me that is the farthest from the truth, I actually like AD and have stood up for him on these boards.  But the Bengals have the #1 pick and just so happen they need to develop a young QB to rebuild the franchise.  Ding, Joe Burrow is the best QB prospect in the draft.  Dalton is older and at the end of his contract.  

This isn't about comparisons, it's just pure common sense.

(01-03-2020, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals picking Tua is my nightmare.

I agree he is possibly the most gifted QB in the draft this year, but he has had way too many injuries.  He missed last spring game with a broken wrist, has had two ankle surgeries in the last year, and is now recovering from a dislocated hip.

He will drop in the draft because of his injury history and some team will see him as a "bargain".  Sound familiar?

Now this we can agree on!  

(01-04-2020, 10:40 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: IMO Findlay's sacks had little to nothing to do with pocket presence and everything to do with inexperience.  Dalton is very decisive and quick to get rid of the ball.  Findlay had not developed that yet (or maybe never would) so it led to sacks.

This is a silly discussion because it seems people assume if you are pro Burrow that you are anti Dalton.  For me that is the farthest from the truth, I actually like AD and have stood up for him on these boards.  But the Bengals have the #1 pick and just so happen they need to develop a young QB to rebuild the franchise.  Ding, Joe Burrow is the best QB prospect in the draft.  Dalton is older and at the end of his contract.  

This isn't about comparisons, it's just pure common sense.

^This

I can want Burrow and still not be anti-Dalton.

Just the same as I can refrain from trashing on Dalton for the most part and not be a Dalton Gang person.

Dalton is what he is.  Good Andy.  Bad Andy.

As a team we need a change and this is the right alignment for the QB position.

Whether it's retaining Dalton and transitioning to Burrow or just ripping the band aid off and putting the rookie out there next season.

It needs to happen.

This is a message to other posters.  STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE THE FAN BASE!

There are a few outlier posters who hate Dalton and on the other side that want to defend him to the end.

You know who you are.

For the most part fans want the best QB so if parting ways with Andy then so be it.

(01-04-2020, 11:03 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: ^This

I can want Burrow and still not be anti-Dalton.

Just the same as I can refrain from trashing on Dalton for the most part and not be a Dalton Gang person.

Dalton is what he is.  Good Andy.  Bad Andy.

As a team we need a change and this is the right alignment for the QB position.

Whether it's retaining Dalton and transitioning to Burrow or just ripping the band aid off and putting the rookie out there next season.

It needs to happen.

This is a message to other posters.  STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE THE FAN BASE!

There are a few outlier posters who hate Dalton and on the other side that want to defend him to the end.

You know who you are.

For the most part fans want the best QB so if parting ways with Andy then so be it.

You can't rebuild a team and still keep all the existing players. What good is it to get a QB on a rookie contract and still keep the 17.5 million salary on the books when so many other positions need to be addressed. Rebuilding the team is more than just drafting new players. Its installing a new hierarchy, a new pecking order. For better or worse Andy needs to go if they are drafting his replacement.

(01-03-2020, 10:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, Tua had nothing to work with at all brother....

Imagine how dominant Tua Tagovailoa could have been if he hadn’t been held back by that talentless overrated hack Nick Saban.

(01-04-2020, 10:40 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: IMO Findlay's sacks had little to nothing to do with pocket presence and everything to do with inexperience.  Dalton is very decisive and quick to get rid of the ball.  Findlay had not developed that yet (or maybe never would) so it led to sacks.

This is a silly discussion because it seems people assume if you are pro Burrow that you are anti Dalton.  For me that is the farthest from the truth, I actually like AD and have stood up for him on these boards.  But the Bengals have the #1 pick and just so happen they need to develop a young QB to rebuild the franchise.  Ding, Joe Burrow is the best QB prospect in the draft.  Dalton is older and at the end of his contract.  

This isn't about comparisons, it's just pure common sense.

(01-04-2020, 11:03 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: ^This

I can want Burrow and still not be anti-Dalton.

Just the same as I can refrain from trashing on Dalton for the most part and not be a Dalton Gang person.

Dalton is what he is.  Good Andy.  Bad Andy.

As a team we need a change and this is the right alignment for the QB position.

Whether it's retaining Dalton and transitioning to Burrow or just ripping the band aid off and putting the rookie out there next season.

It needs to happen.

This is a message to other posters.  STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE THE FAN BASE!

There are a few outlier posters who hate Dalton and on the other side that want to defend him to the end.

You know who you are.

For the most part fans want the best QB so if parting ways with Andy then so be it.

Well said, always liked Dalton but Burrow is who we need to move on to.

Nothing against Dalton. I am in no Dalton Gang and even Bfine will say so.

It is time, the timing couldn't be better IMO.

(01-04-2020, 12:47 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Imagine how dominant Tua Tagovailoa could have been if he hadn’t been held back by that talentless overrated hack Nick Saban.

Yeah, that hack held him back. 

(01-04-2020, 12:32 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You can't rebuild a team and still keep all the existing players. What good is it to get a QB on a rookie contract and still keep the 17.5 million salary on the books when so many other positions need to be addressed. Rebuilding the team is more than just drafting new players. Its installing a new hierarchy, a new pecking order. For better or worse Andy needs to go if they are drafting his replacement.

I honestly wouldn't mind dumping Dalton and Green's money if The Family/Tobin would spend it on good internal and good external FA signings.

The problem is they suck and I don't trust them.

(01-04-2020, 08:54 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I honestly wouldn't mind dumping Dalton and Green's money if The Family/Tobin would spend it on good internal and good external FA signings.

The problem is they suck and I don't trust them.

Really hard to trust these clowns.

(01-03-2020, 11:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yes, Alabama hasn't put any players in the NFL in years and I doubt there will be any in the near future.   Moreover Saban and Co. are horrible coaches, haven't won anything lately.

Tua throws a pretty deep ball but then I remind myself he’s really fragile , on the small side 6’, has Nfl players at every position then his back up throws for 4 tds in a bowl game.

(01-04-2020, 09:04 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Tua throws a pretty deep ball but then I remind myself he’s really fragile , on the small side 6’, has Nfl players at every position then his back up throws for 4 tds in a bowl game.

Not to mention Burrow didn't have as good of a Defense to help him out.

I like Tua, always have, WHEN HE IS HEALTHY.

Problem is, he is not and he might never be the same after that injury.

Some complain about us always drafting injured dudes in the first and then some want to take Tua over Burrow.

Crazy to me.

If tua declares tomorrow and we take joe burrow everybody is going to be laughing at us in 5 years as usual. Joe burrow is going to look a lot more like 2018 burrow than 2019 burrow when he gets to the big leagues.

(01-03-2020, 11:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Seriously, if anything LSU has been the underwhelming SEC team of the two...

Until Burrow got there.

Les Miles' fault.

After his 5th year there, things started to get VERY stagnant, yearly record notwithstanding.

(01-05-2020, 11:04 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: If tua declares tomorrow and we take joe burrow everybody is going to be laughing at us in 5 years as usual. Joe burrow is going to look a lot more like 2018 burrow than 2019 burrow when he gets to the big leagues.

Ok, there, Mr. Scout, whatever you say!

16-5 TD/INT ratio with 7 rushing TDs, perfect touch on passes and a great QB mind that can pick apart defenses?

I'd take that in a heartbeat (would mean Mixon is tearing it up as well).