(01-07-2020, 11:58 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: I actually agree you dont need a howitzer to be a great NFL qb.  Tua does not have a howitzer either, but his arm strength is more than adequate, where as Burrow is basically near the minimum you would want. When I watch Burrow it looks like a highlight film for his playmakers not Burrow.  He has thrown plenty of dimes this year to get excited about, but there are a ton of throws where im like wow he really got away with one there.  Those throws are completed for huge plays right now and they simply wont be at the NFL level.  I love Burrows pocket presence and the way he can keep plays alive.  He has been amazing at that this year, its just unsustainable.  We see this every year with a QB playing at a much higher level, they all level off.  Burrow is going to level off in a big way all the writing is on the wall.

Something interesting about Joe Burrows development under Joe Brady this offseason. Brady uses a Radar gun in practice and has his QBs adjust their throws accordingly.

There are plenty of throws where Burrow shows an NFL arm it's just we also see throws he takes juice off to give his WRs an easier catch.

(01-07-2020, 12:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So who you taking at #1? No trades, assume we don’t get good enough offers. You going Young when DL is literally one of the only strengths of our team. If you do who’s our future QB? Please don’t say Lawrence the odds of ending up with back-to-back 1st overall picks are very low.

Easiest question I have ever received.  Tua Tagovailoa aka Hawaiian Jesus.  He is THE reason I argue against Joe so much.  In another draft I would probably be somewhat ok with Joe.  Picking Sam Bowie over Jordan is not what I want the Bengals to do.  We are headed down that path now. 

(01-07-2020, 01:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who’s saying that?

He's pulling a Fred and BLATANTLY misconstruing my words, but whatever.

(01-07-2020, 12:22 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Easiest question I have ever received. Tua Tagovailoa aka Hawaiian Jesus. He is THE reason I argue against Joe so much. In another draft I would probably be somewhat ok with Joe. Picking Sam Bowie over Jordan is not what I want the Bengals to do. We are headed down that path now.

Lol, keep dreaming.

Tua will not do anything in this league, unless he is perfectly healthy.

It is absolutely not a knock against them and the rule DEFINITELY has to be broken eventually, but since when has a Samoan/Tongan/Pacific Islander, ever been a successful QB?

(01-07-2020, 12:22 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Easiest question I have ever received.  Tua Tagovailoa aka Hawaiian Jesus.  He is THE reason I argue against Joe so much.  In another draft I would probably be somewhat ok with Joe.  Picking Sam Bowie over Jordan is not what I want the Bengals to do.  We are headed down that path now. 

A #1OA on a gigantic question mark like Tua? Not even Mike Brown is that dumb. It’s just not worth the risk when you have Burrow sitting there.

(01-07-2020, 12:23 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He's pulling a Fred and BLATANTLY misconstruing my words, but whatever.


Lol, keep dreaming.

Tua will not do anything in this league, unless he is perfectly healthy.

It is absolutely not a knock against them and the rule DEFINITELY has to be broken eventually, but since when has a Samoan/Tongan/Pacific Islander, ever been a successful QB?

When was a Big 12 QB sucessful prior to Mahomes? Bengals fans are hilarious.  The dude is somoan/Tongan/ Pacific Islanders so he cant be successful.  Thats one of the weirdest things Ive ever read.  I base projections on game film not their heritage, or what somebody of the heritage did in the last 20 years or whatever you are getting at.  There is only 1 Tua i dont care what any other somoan/Tongan/Pacific Islanders have ever done.  Its not at all relevent, and borderline racist.  If you said that about a black QB people would be taking you to the woodshed.  Grow up my man.

(01-07-2020, 12:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: A #1OA on a gigantic question mark like Tua? Not even Mike Brown is that dumb. It’s just not worth the risk when you have Burrow sitting there.

you have your opinion and I have mine.  I have watched every single throw that both have made.  I have no doubt Tua will be the better NFL qb.  There is no way to debate which one of us is right.  Only time will tell.  I like my odds.

(01-07-2020, 12:34 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: you have your opinion and I have mine.  I have watched every single throw that both have made.  I have no doubt Tua will be the better NFL qb.  There is no way to debate which one of us is right.  Only time will tell.  I like my odds.

Injuries are not opinion. They’re a fact. They happened. No one is questioning Tua’s skill.

But hip surgery, especially on a QB like Tua is a huge concern. I don’t want another Ross or Eifert on our hands. Tua might go on to be one of the best QB’s ever, but he could also turn out to be a total bust because he can’t stay healthy.

(01-07-2020, 12:19 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: Lol we got several people already saying we want him to throw 16td and 5 picks and that would be awesome.  Why would the bar be so low for a #1 overall pick.  If thats the production were better doing almost anything else with the #1 pick.  We can find a qb in the 4th round that can throw 16 td and 5 picks.

We did draft a guy in the 4th last year. How did he do?

(01-07-2020, 12:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Injuries are not opinion. They’re a fact. They happened. No one is questioning Tua’s skill.

But hip surgery, especially on a QB like Tua is a huge concern. I don’t want another Ross or Eifert on our hands. Tua might go on to be one of the best QB’s ever, but he could also turn out to be a total bust because he can’t stay healthy.

my opinion is Tua is better than Burrow. I didnt say anything about him not being injured.  We all know Tua is currently rehabbing.  I am of the opinion that by the time the draft rolls around we will have a pretty good idea if he can make a full recovery.  If he passes medicals with flying colors I take him #1 and dont think twice about it.  Id rather draft for talent than health every day of the week and twice on sundays.  Nobody talks about Burrow and the fact that right now when he runs he looks for contact and trys to run at LB's right now.  He does that in NFL and hes gonna get hurt alot.  Just because hes heathy now doesnt mean he cant get hurt in the NFL.  Every pick has some sort of risk.

Chris Perry wasnt hurt a day in his life till we drafted him and then he turned into glass. You never know.

(01-07-2020, 12:47 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: We did draft a guy in the 4th last year. How did he do?

Hes terrible.  So since we drafted him in the 4th that I guess guarantees that Joe Burrow is gonna be a stud?  If we start Finley next year that 16td and 5 int is a real possibility and thats what people want out of Burrow apparently. Why not just keep Finley if thats the goal.  What a useless post.  

I said what a terrible pick it was last year right when we picked him. Complete waste of a pick. Outside of Jonah our whole draft last year was wasted. Im hoping we dont do that again by taking Burrow.

(01-07-2020, 12:48 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: my opinion is Tua is better than Burrow. I didnt say anything about him not being injured.  We all know Tua is currently rehabbing.  I am of the opinion that by the time the draft rolls around we will have a pretty good idea if he can make a full recovery.  If he passes medicals with flying colors I take him #1 and dont think twice about it.  Id rather draft for talent than health every day of the week and twice on sundays.  Nobody talks about Burrow and the fact that right now when he runs he looks for contact and trys to run at LB's right now.  He does that in NFL and hes gonna get hurt alot.  Just because hes heathy now doesnt mean he cant get hurt in the NFL.  Every pick has some sort of risk.

Chris Perry wasnt hurt a day in his life till we drafted him and then he turned into glass.  You never know.

Man, you're super tryhard.  Stop the fandom and just think from a logic point of view.  Who is more likely to get injured out of the two.  I mean the guy literally broke his Hip.  Anyone can be injured and I like Tua as a top 5 pick, but constantly disregarding other people's opinion because " you know better " is such a childish argument that you lose all credibility and if your goal is convincing people to listen to you this is not the way to go about it.

(01-07-2020, 12:31 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: When was a Big 12 QB sucessful prior to Mahomes? Bengals fans are hilarious.  The dude is somoan/Tongan/ Pacific Islanders so he cant be successful.  Thats one of the weirdest things Ive ever read.  I base projections on game film not their heritage, or what somebody of the heritage did in the last 20 years or whatever you are getting at.  There is only 1 Tua i dont care what any other somoan/Tongan/Pacific Islanders have ever done.  Its not at all relevent, and borderline racist.  If you said that about a black QB people would be taking you to the woodshed.  Grow up my man.

Not racist at all; again, the norm has to be broken at some point, why not Tua?

I just don't think it will be him.

Furthermore, to answer your blatantly ignorant first question:

- Troy Aikman (overrated sure, but definitely a success)
- Andy Dalton
- Marc Bulger
- Jeff Hostetler
- John Hadl
- Steve Grogan
- Tannehill (though he's been more middling than successful)

Thanks for turning a respectful conversation into shit-slinging.

(01-07-2020, 01:05 PM)Okeana Wrote: Man, you're super tryhard.  Stop the fandom and just think from a logic point of view.  Who is more likely to get injured out of the two.  I mean the guy literally broke his Hip.  Anyone can be injured and I like Tua as a top 5 pick, but constantly disregarding other people's opinion because " you know better " is such a childish argument that you lose all credibility and if your goal is convincing people to listen to you this is not the way to go about it.

So your arguement is that Tua is more likely to get injured? and thats why Burrow is better?  Ive done heard it all now.  I dont care if people listen to me at all.  We can look back at these posts in a few years and im not the one who is gonna be eating large piles of crow.  I just find it funny that all Burrow lovers like yourself comepletely dismiss Burrows 2018 season like it never happened, and he is now magically worlds better.  Ignoring and dismissing all the warts as if he is the perfect prospect.

(01-07-2020, 12:58 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Hes terrible.  So since we drafted him in the 4th that I guess guarantees that Joe Burrow is gonna be a stud?  If we start Finley next year that 16td and 5 int is a real possibility and thats what people want out of Burrow apparently. Why not just keep Finley if thats the goal.  What a useless post.  

Wrong. People are saying 16/5 because they want the offense to go through mixon and not through Burrow which is the best case scenario.  Burrow could do better than that probably but if I were Zac and was drafting either tua or joe I'm not putting the entire offense in there hands right away.

(01-07-2020, 01:12 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Wrong. People are saying 16/5 because they want the offense to go through mixon and not through Burrow which is the best case scenario.  Burrow could do better than that probably but if I were Zac and was drafting either tua or joe I'm not putting the entire offense in there hands right away.

Thank you.

By no means at all do I want our QB to have that little production, but again, if that were the case, then that would mean we are absolutely killing it with Mixon (or other RBs), game in, game out.

Which usually means we're winning. I'll take 0 TDs 16 picks at the end of the year, if we win the SB.

(01-07-2020, 01:11 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not racist at all; again, the norm has to be broken at some point, why not Tua?

I just don't think it will be him.

Furthermore, to answer your blatantly ignorant first question:

- Troy Aikman (overrated sure, but definitely a success)
- Andy Dalton
- Marc Bulger
- Jeff Hostetler
- John Hadl
- Steve Grogan
- Tannehill (though he's been more middling than successful)

Thanks for turning a respectful conversation into shit-slinging.

This is awesome.  Aikman was drafted out of UCLA.  Pretty much all of his success was at UCLA. He played for Oklahoma as a freshman. He is from the pac 12, as he was drafted from that conference.

The most hilarious part of this is you dont even know Dalton did not play in the Big 12 (MWC).  Marc Bulger also not big 12(big east).  This post just goes to show you have no clue what you are talking about.

You didnt even list the guy you can make the best case for in Bradford.

(01-07-2020, 01:12 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: So your arguement is that Tua is more likely to get injured? and thats why Burrow is better?  Ive done heard it all now.  I dont care if people listen to me at all.  We can look back at these posts in a few years and im not the one who is gonna be eating large piles of crow.  I just find it funny that all Burrow lovers like yourself comepletely dismiss Burrows 2018 season like it never happened, and he is now magically worlds better.  Ignoring and dismissing all the warts as if he is the perfect prospect.

You act like he was bad in 2018. He wasn’t. He just wasn’t on another level yet. Funny that players aren’t static isn’t it? Especially college kids.

(01-07-2020, 01:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Thank you.

By no means at all do I want our QB to have that little production, but again, if that were the case, then that would mean we are absolutely killing it with Mixon (or other RBs), game in, game out.

Which usually means we're winning. I'll take 0 TDs 16 picks at the end of the year, if we win the SB.

Do you also believe in unicorns are fairy tales?  If our QB throws 16/5 or 0/16 we aint winning 6 games.  Please say something plausable if you are going to make an argument.  Joe Mixon could have 2,000 yards and we still might not make the playoffs with those numbers.

(01-07-2020, 01:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You act like he was bad in 2018. He wasn’t. He just wasn’t on another level yet. Funny that players aren’t static isn’t it? Especially college kids.

Wow.  You really havent watched 2018 then.  He had a worse year than Guarantano and Shurmur.  Statistically he was the 12th rated passer out of 14 in the SEC.  Only beating out Ty Storey and Nick Fitzgerald.  Terry Wilson had a higher passer rating. To say he was good in 2018 is just flat out false.



Passing
Rushing
Rk
Player
School
G
Cmp
Att
Pct
Yds
Y/A
AY/A
TD
Int
Rate
▼
Att
Yds
Avg
TD1
Tua Tagovailoa*
Alabama
15
245
355
69.0
3966
11.2
12.8
43
6
199.4
57
190
3.3
5
2
Jake Fromm*
Georgia
14
207
307
67.4
2761
9.0
10.1
30
6
171.3
41
-27
-0.7
0
3
Jordan Ta'amu
Ole Miss
12
266
418
63.6
3918
9.4
9.4
19
8
153.5
116
342
2.9
6
4
Drew Lock*
Missouri
13
275
437
62.9
3498
8.0
8.5
28
8
147.7
55
175
3.2
6
5
Jake Bentley*
South Carolina
13
240
388
61.9
3171
8.2
7.9
27
14
146.3
65
78
1.2
2
6
Kyle Shurmur*
Vanderbilt
13
254
406
62.6
3130
7.7
8.2
24
6
143.9
39
-80
-2.1
0
7
Feleipe Franks*
Florida
13
188
322
58.4
2457
7.6
8.3
24
6
143.4
110
350
3.2
7
8
Jarrett Guarantano
Tennessee
12
153
246
62.2
1907
7.8
8.2
12
3
141.0
40
-94
-2.4
0
9
Jarrett Stidham*
Auburn
13
224
369
60.7
2794
7.6
7.9
18
5
137.7
72
1
0.0
3
10
Kellen Mond*
Texas A&M
13
238
415
57.3
3107
7.5
7.7
24
9
135.0
149
474
3.2
7
11
Terry Wilson*
Kentucky
13
180
268
67.2
1889
7.0
6.5
11
8
133.9
135
547
4.1
4
12
Joe Burrow*
LSU
13
219
379
57.8
2894
7.6
7.9
16
5
133.2
128
399
3.1
7
13
Ty Storey
Arkansas
10
143
250
57.2
1584
6.3
5.4
11
10
116.9
67
146
2.2
1
14
Nick Fitzgerald*
Mississippi State
12
145
281
51.6
1767
6.3
6.0
16
9
116.8
221
1121
5.1
13

(01-07-2020, 01:16 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: This is awesome.  Aikman was drafted out of UCLA.  Pretty much all of his success was at UCLA. He played for Oklahoma as a freshman. He is from the pac 12, as he was drafted from that conference.

The most hilarious part of this is you dont even know Dalton did not play in the Big 12 (MWC).  Marc Bulger also not big 12(big east).  This post just goes to show you have no clue what you are talking about.

You didnt even list the guy you can make the best case for in Bradford.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference

My apologies, I missed the years on WVU and TCU.

Point still stands. Bradford was middling like Tannehill, but Tannehill has had more recent success, hence why I put him.

And I know about Aikman; point is, he went to Oklahoma; people are forgetting that Burrow also went to OSU.

(01-07-2020, 01:21 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: If our QB throws 16/5 or 0/16 we aint winning 6 games. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2016.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2019.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2019.htm

I can go on.

I don't wish to discuss this any further, as you clearly are biased and can't accept the fact that other people's opinions MAY be more accurate than yours.