(01-14-2020, 02:51 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: The one thing that may make the Bengals go another direction is the senior bowl. They will be spending time with Justin Hebert. If the Bengals fall in love with him and another team wants to trade up for JB or CY the Bengals may consider the offer if they believe they can still take Hebert if they fall in love with him. The problem I see is that the Steelers tend to end up jumping the Bengals a few spots and select the guy the Bengals covert and that has hurt them over the years.

With that said I would be ok with JB if the scheme ZT uses will allow JB to play at the highest level; otherwise I wouldn't use the pick on JB. You can state all you want about this or that but I have watched way to many skilled players leave here and flourished on other teams and the same can be said for FA the Bengals have brought in as well from other teams.

Scheme that is being used can really improve a player ability. The issue I see is that our coaching staff is still too wet behind the ears to realize they need to modify their scheme to fit the players they have on their roster. I mean it took 8 games for the OL to make the needed changes to improve the running game. That type of change should have been resolve the minute Williams went down with an injury.

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..... sorry I couldn't make it past the first couple of sentences.

(01-14-2020, 02:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: not sure we ever had a chance....

I've been on the Burrow train since before Tua's injury.

Hopefully this front office steps up and puts Joe in the best situation possible.

(01-14-2020, 12:16 PM)HuDey Wrote: Without that rat tail, Vigil would've been unthreadworthy.....Definitely not Chuck Norris level thread worthy.

Right.

Please tell me that no one took the Nick Vigil is going to be Norris posts as serious?

I thought it was inside joke jab and a way to be creative in a boring downtime.

(01-14-2020, 02:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's right, I'm asking all of the Joe Burrow antagonists, "What's wrong with him?".

Did you not like the way he hangs in there, against likely the best defense in CFB?

Did you not like the way he changed his strategy to defeat tight coverage and a relentless pass rush?

Did you not like that he set the NCAA TD record?

Do you not like the way he overcomes adversity, and leads his team to play their best game?

Now is you chance, tell us what you don't like about Joe Burrow.  

I don't see anything wrong with him at all myself.

I only question if this coaching staff can bring him along.

 

(01-14-2020, 02:51 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: The one thing that may make the Bengals go another direction is the senior bowl. They will be spending time with Justin Hebert. If the Bengals fall in love with him and another team wants to trade up for JB or CY the Bengals may consider the offer if they believe they can still take Hebert if they fall in love with him. The problem I see is that the Steelers tend to end up jumping the Bengals a few spots and select the guy the Bengals covert and that has hurt them over the years.

With that said I would be ok with JB if the scheme ZT uses will allow JB to play at the highest level; otherwise I wouldn't use the pick on JB. You can state all you want about this or that but I have watched way to many skilled players leave here and flourished on other teams and the same can be said for FA the Bengals have brought in as well from other teams.

Scheme that is being used can really improve a player ability. The issue I see is that our coaching staff is still too wet behind the ears to realize they need to modify their scheme to fit the players they have on their roster. I mean it took 8 games for the OL to make the needed changes to improve the running game. That type of change should have been resolve the minute Williams went down with an injury.

I'd cry as this would be a typical Mike Brown move from the 90s rearing its head once again. But I really don't think Mike Brown is that dumb.

Even if the like Herbert they'd have to like him a lot more than Burrow and I just don't see that happening.

 

(01-14-2020, 03:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'd cry as this would be a typical Mike Brown move from the 90s rearing its head once again. But I really don't think Mike Brown is that dumb.

Even if the like Herbert they'd have to like him a lot more than Burrow and I just don't see that happening.

 

I just don't understand the obsession with Herbert.  Maybe someone can fill me in because I see an average quarterback prospect when I watch the tape.  Sure he's a big strong dude, but there are no QB's in the hall of fame over 6'4" and the two most successful QB's in NFL history didn't have the strongest arms.  He's basically a better prospect than Josh Allen

(01-14-2020, 04:14 PM)Okeana Wrote: I just don't understand the obsession with Herbert.  Maybe someone can fill me in because I see an average quarterback prospect when I watch the tape.  Sure he's a big strong dude, but there are no QB's in the hall of fame over 6'4" and the two most successful QB's in NFL history didn't have the strongest arms.  He's basically a better prospect than Josh Allen

Big Ben will be in the hall of fame when his career is over and he is similar in size to Hebert. 

You take out Tua and Burrow and you have Hebert. His performance has improved each year and this year he had almost 70% completion and 30+ TDs. That is very good production and any other year he would be the top QB and probably the 1st pick off the board. As for Burrow, his numbers jump out as he broke records.

Now many people are all about Burrow but it takes a team to win football games. You have special teams, defense and the offense. The QB does control the offense but if you don't have a good enough defense you won't win the SB. 

The other thing is finding players that fit within the schemes the Bengals use. Other than Simmons that has had great success with ST because he can coach up players, even players who never played special teams, getting a player of Burrow caliber and having him in scheme that won't allow him to reach his potential is worst than picking a player that fits the scheme and produces. 

The Bengals offense is not the same as what allowed Burrow to have such high production. So, either ZT has to modify the scheme or Burrow will have to adjust. The later is usually where top rated players simply don't pan out moreso than picking a player that does fit the scheme and he may seem like a reach. 

There are some players that flourish no matter the scheme/systems and that is because they are just that good. Others simply excel within certain scheme/systems. I'm concern Burrow is more a product of the scheme and if he came here and falls flat it wouldn't be the first player to see their talent wasted. 

Herbert = Oregon means auto DQ

Burrow is the obvious #1 overall. Especially with the injury to Tua.

Anyone still going on about “scheme” clearly didn’t watch the kid play last night.

I guess it was Joe Brady that was dropping absolute dimes into buckets. And it was also clearly Joe Brady that was extending plays and giving the WR’s an eternity to get open. I’ve also heard Burrow didn’t know how to take off and rip huge runs before Joe Brady’s scheme taught him how...

(01-14-2020, 02:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's right, I'm asking all of the Joe Burrow antagonists, "What's wrong with him?".

Did you not like the way he hangs in there, against likely the best defense in CFB?

Did you not like the way he changed his strategy to defeat tight coverage and a relentless pass rush?

Did you not like that he set the NCAA TD record?

Do you not like the way he overcomes adversity, and leads his team to play their best game?

Now is you chance, tell us what you don't like about Joe Burrow.  

It is a damn good question, I cannot find anything wrong with the guy.

He is the perfect QB for us.

(01-14-2020, 04:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still going on about “scheme” clearly didn’t watch the kid play last night.

I guess it was Joe Brady that was dropping absolute dimes into buckets. And it was also clearly Joe Brady that was extending plays and giving the WR’s an eternity to get open. I’ve also heard Burrow didn’t know how to take off and rip huge runs before Joe Brady’s scheme taught him how...

I hear Joe Brady had to teach Burrow how to tie his shoes and he didn't know how to read and write

(01-14-2020, 04:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still going on about “scheme” clearly didn’t watch the kid play last night.

I guess it was Joe Brady that was dropping absolute dimes into buckets. And it was also clearly Joe Brady that was extending plays and giving the WR’s an eternity to get open. I’ve also heard Burrow didn’t know how to take off and rip huge runs before Joe Brady’s scheme taught him how...

I think Brady's scheme definitely created situations where there was no high safety over those deeps balls and it was Brady's scheme that drew up play calls that voided the middle of the field when man coverage was called, which allowed Burrow to run for 30 yards unimpeded.

Your QB is only as good as the plays designed for the offense. You can be the perfect QB with the perfect arm and perfect accuracy, but if your play caller keeps calling all hitches and simple crossing routes that the defense can sniff out, you won't be able to showcase your QB's talents.

I'm all in on Burrow, but I'm not about to discount the value of strong play calling.

(01-14-2020, 10:06 AM)kevin Wrote: I just hope Bengals don't waste his talents.   LSU uses a New Orleans Saints NFL offense of hurry up quick plays and quick release passes.  Burrow was excellent fit as he reads and adjusts and hits the open man.  So the question is are the Bengals and Zac Taylor a Step Down from the LSU offensive coaches ???   I know he had better blocking at LSU than Bengals provide. 

So 99.9 % sure he is Bengals #1 pick.   The Focus changes to the first picks in 2 and 3.   Yes, we need a 4-3 LB in here.   We also need a Great Blocker for the worst O Line in NFL.   The first pick in 2 is like an extra First Round Pick, and I say after taking the QB,  use the next pick to get him some blocking.  This will help Mixon also. 

The coaches need to stop the rinky dink, slow developing plays.  It remains to be seen if Zac can win with any players.  Bengals Front Office leaves a lot to be desired.  Is this Franchise ready to commit to WINNING as LSU did ???   

In the right offense Burrow will do well in the NFL.  I'm not sure Bengals are the right offense for any quarterback as long as Mike Brown wonders why he should have to pay blockers.  This team needs more than a QB change and I really don't think Dalton was Bengals major problem.  Dalton performed a miracle getting this franchise into 5 straight play-off games.  Anderson had Bengals in 2 straight play-offs once.  So I think this franchise has much bigger problems than QB, and they start with MB and work their way down. 

By all means, bring in Joe Heisman, but don't pretend that alone fixes the worst team in NFL.  As good as Carson was, he couldn't win here.  The owners have to commit to WINNING and surrounding Joe Heisman with a good team of coaches and players.  Lets face it, if LSU is the best in college, then Cincy is the worst in NFL.   Can the Bengals win with Joe Burrow.  Yes, IF they commit to WINNING.  IF the owners change their cheap ways holding this franchise back.  And THAT'S the ONLY way Burrow can win with constant loser Cincy.  ONE MAN can not turn this thing around.  The entire Franchise from Top Down needs to change and commit to WINNING as never before. 

I have seen good QB's drafted to teams that ruin them.  I have seen a Big Ben get drafted by a team long committed to WINNING and was to his benefit.   Burrow WILL NOT be going to a good team,  he will be going to worst team in NFL.  Ownership must know they have to surround Burrow with good coaches and good players.  IF THEY DON'T, we should never blame Burrow, or Dalton or Carson as Fans have.  Good Teams know it takes more than a QB. 

So hoping that we get a heck of a Blocker to start round 2 and a heck of a LB to start round 3.   Those should be excellent players also considering where the team drafts. 

IF the 2019 Bengals didn't fit Zacs playbook and IF Burrow and the 2020 Bengals don't fit Zacs playbook, then get rid of the playbook, or get rid of Zac.  

All that said, Burrow can read defenses and make quick release passes long, medium, short range and he can excel in a Hurry Up Offense.  Hopefully Bengals will build around that and this offense speeds things up 100 %.   GO BENGALS.  ....The thing BEST about Joe Heisman is He Scores Points, and the Bengals Don't.   We could use the points on the scoreboard. To the poster who wonders if he can play in Ohio weather, He played grade school and high school ball in Ohio and was with Ohio State before transfer to LSU, so Ohio weather is nothing new to him.  His Parents are in Ohio.   So he can play in the Ohio slop or run on a fast track at LSU,  which is rare.   GO BENGALS.

Truly great post.

:andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

(01-14-2020, 02:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Now is you chance, tell us what you don't like about Joe Burrow.  

I didn't like when he was going through his Eminem phase

(01-14-2020, 04:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still going on about “scheme” clearly didn’t watch the kid play last night.

I guess it was Joe Brady that was dropping absolute dimes into buckets. And it was also clearly Joe Brady that was extending plays and giving the WR’s an eternity to get open. I’ve also heard Burrow didn’t know how to take off and rip huge runs before Joe Brady’s scheme taught him how...

  This kid can play. Praying the Bengals don't screw it up.

(01-14-2020, 04:29 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Big Ben will be in the hall of fame when his career is over and he is similar in size to Hebert. 

You take out Tua and Burrow and you have Hebert. His performance has improved each year and this year he had almost 70% completion and 30+ TDs. That is very good production and any other year he would be the top QB and probably the 1st pick off the board. As for Burrow, his numbers jump out as he broke records.

Now many people are all about Burrow but it takes a team to win football games. You have special teams, defense and the offense. The QB does control the offense but if you don't have a good enough defense you won't win the SB. 

The other thing is finding players that fit within the schemes the Bengals use. Other than Simmons that has had great success with ST because he can coach up players, even players who never played special teams, getting a player of Burrow caliber and having him in scheme that won't allow him to reach his potential is worst than picking a player that fits the scheme and produces. 

The Bengals offense is not the same as what allowed Burrow to have such high production. So, either ZT has to modify the scheme or Burrow will have to adjust. The later is usually where top rated players simply don't pan out moreso than picking a player that does fit the scheme and he may seem like a reach. 

There are some players that flourish no matter the scheme/systems and that is because they are just that good. Others simply excel within certain scheme/systems. I'm concern Burrow is more a product of the scheme and if he came here and falls flat it wouldn't be the first player to see their talent wasted. 

No shit?

Just stop it. CLEARLY you're still one of the ones with an issue, fabricating weaknesses out of nothing.

And it's HeRbert.

HERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBERT

(01-14-2020, 04:54 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think Brady's scheme definitely created situations where there was no high safety over those deeps balls and it was Brady's scheme that drew up play calls that voided the middle of the field when man coverage was called, which allowed Burrow to run for 30 yards unimpeded.

Your QB is only as good as the plays designed for the offense. You can be the perfect QB with the perfect arm and perfect accuracy, but if your play caller keeps calling all hitches and simple crossing routes that the defense can sniff out, you won't be able to showcase your QB's talents.

I'm all in on Burrow, but I'm not about to discount the value of strong play calling.

I’m not asking people to discount it. I’m suggesting to give the majority of the credit where it belongs...THE PLAYER.

You can be an offensive genius but if you don’t have the guy capable of executing it it’s not enough.

(01-14-2020, 04:29 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Big Ben will be in the hall of fame when his career is over and he is similar in size to Hebert. 

You take out Tua and Burrow and you have Hebert. His performance has improved each year and this year he had almost 70% completion and 30+ TDs. That is very good production and any other year he would be the top QB and probably the 1st pick off the board. As for Burrow, his numbers jump out as he broke records.

Now many people are all about Burrow but it takes a team to win football games. You have special teams, defense and the offense. The QB does control the offense but if you don't have a good enough defense you won't win the SB. 

The other thing is finding players that fit within the schemes the Bengals use. Other than Simmons that has had great success with ST because he can coach up players, even players who never played special teams, getting a player of Burrow caliber and having him in scheme that won't allow him to reach his potential is worst than picking a player that fits the scheme and produces. 

The Bengals offense is not the same as what allowed Burrow to have such high production. So, either ZT has to modify the scheme or Burrow will have to adjust. The later is usually where top rated players simply don't pan out moreso than picking a player that does fit the scheme and he may seem like a reach. 

There are some players that flourish no matter the scheme/systems and that is because they are just that good. Others simply excel within certain scheme/systems. I'm concern Burrow is more a product of the scheme and if he came here and falls flat it wouldn't be the first player to see their talent wasted. 

Herbert finally won his conference this year, but he didnt do anything in that game or any other to improve doubters. The truth is, Herbert shows some good stuff because hes tall with a cannon arm, but has also had plenty of wth moments. Hes very bad under pressure. He misses a lot of WRs and hes not that good at going through his progressions. When his OL kept him clean he would pick people apart. When his OL broke down, so did he. 4 years in a row this isnt just one year. The dude has been exactly the same with the same weaknesses in his game for too long. Hes the next Joey Harrington if you ask me.....

I’m just glad we have the 1st pick and don’t have to choose between a somewhat uninspiring Herbert or a huge health risk in Tua.

This was a great year to suck!