(02-01-2020, 02:00 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I know i'm starting to sound like a broken record on this... if the front office is aggressive in FA, I want Burrow. If it's status quo, I want them to trade the pick for a haul.

The issue with this is you are then on the clock.

If they have say 3 first round picks then you have 5 years to win a superbowl because mostly likely 2 will be gone after that. I know you can argue the QB would be gone in 5 but Mike Brown pays his performing players what they are worth so most likely he would get a big extension after 4 years.

I know the trade need more picks is popular but a franchise QB you can build around is smarter because you can do it more than once.

(02-01-2020, 02:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue with this is you are then on the clock.

If they have say 3 first round picks then you have 5 years to win a superbowl because mostly likely 2 will be gone after that. I know you can argue the QB would be gone in 5 but Mike Brown pays his performing players what they are worth so most likely he would get a big extension after 4 years.

I know the trade need more picks is popular but a franchise QB you can build around is smarter because you can do it more than once.

You will rarely, very rarely, if ever be able to convince people of this who think that way. 

Passing on the most important position on the field for more picks--that all have to hit to be successful--then try to get a top 10 QB from somewhere, which is very hard to do. Pretty much impossible if you're the Bengals and you don't use FA or trade decent/good players.

It seems so easy and i just don't understand people that don't understand this concept. 

(02-01-2020, 02:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You will rarely, very rarely, if ever be able to convince people of this who think that way. 

Passing on the most important position on the field for more picks--that all have to hit to be successful--then try to get a top 10 QB from somewhere, which is very hard to do. Pretty much impossible if you're the Bengals and you don't use FA or trade decent/good players.

It seems so easy and i just don't understand people that don't understand this concept. 

Getting to a Superbowl is not easy you can have it all and just not get there.

Look at the Saints they have one of the best rosters in the NFL which includes a future first ballot HoF QB and great coaching on both sides of the ball. They still can't get to a superbowl.

(02-01-2020, 09:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mahomes was a top 10 pick, and SF sucked until they got Jimmy G. He came in and won his first 5 games for them, and got himself paid. Last season they only won 3 games without him.

And they built there team before both of those guys arrived. Know one is saying you don't need to be a QB but he doesn't have to be the first position to be addressed during a rebuild. Also would like to point out that it can be the first position to be built around as well.

(02-01-2020, 02:00 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I know i'm starting to sound like a broken record on this... if the front office is aggressive in FA, I want Burrow. If it's status quo, I want them to trade the pick for a haul.

Well I know they won’t be aggressive in FA and that’s actually one of the reasons I want Burrow so badly. It’s going to take a special player to make up for the way this team is run.

(02-01-2020, 02:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue with this is you are then on the clock.

If they have say 3 first round picks then you have 5 years to win a superbowl because mostly likely 2 will be gone after that. I know you can argue the QB would be gone in 5 but Mike Brown pays his performing players what they are worth so most likely he would get a big extension after 4 years.

I know the trade need more picks is popular but a franchise QB you can build around is smarter because you can do it more than once.

QBs are way more expensive though. For Example Mahomes is probably going to get between 40-50 million dollars a year in his next contract. That's worth 2 to 3 all stars at other positions.  

(02-01-2020, 02:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Getting to a Superbowl is not easy you can have it all and just not get there.

Look at the Saints they have one of the best rosters in the NFL which includes a future first ballot HoF QB and great coaching on both sides of the ball. They still can't get to a superbowl.

They keep getting screwed by the officiating lol

(02-01-2020, 02:40 PM)J24 Wrote: QBs are way more expensive though. For Example Mahomes is probably going to get between 40-50 million dollars a year in his next contract. That's worth 2 to 3 all stars at other positions.  

Is Mahomes worth it? Yes because you can continue to build/rebuild around him and he will consistently keep your team in a superbowl hunt for years.

Like Arod, Brees, Ben, Brady. QB is the most important position on the field if you have a chance at one that could be special you jump on it.

(02-01-2020, 02:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well I know they won’t be aggressive in FA and that’s actually one of the reasons I want Burrow so badly. It’s going to take a special player to make up for the way this team is run.

Exactly



MB isn't going to just morph into a competent GM.

(02-01-2020, 02:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Getting to a Superbowl is not easy you can have it all and just not get there.

Look at the Saints they have one of the best rosters in the NFL which includes a future first ballot HoF QB and great coaching on both sides of the ball. They still can't get to a superbowl.

But that football team is in the play offs literally every year and brees has a ring.

That's what fans want to see, there team in the play offs every year, even if it's one and done most years, the fact that your team has a chance is exciting

(02-01-2020, 02:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue with this is you are then on the clock.

If they have say 3 first round picks then you have 5 years to win a superbowl because mostly likely 2 will be gone after that. I know you can argue the QB would be gone in 5 but Mike Brown pays his performing players what they are worth so most likely he would get a big extension after 4 years.

I know the trade need more picks is popular but a franchise QB you can build around is smarter because you can do it more than once.

I should have prefaced my definition of a haul. The updated trade value chart says it'd take Miami's 3 first rounders & a 4th. For Burrow, it'd take 5-6 picks in the first 3 rounds in '20 & '21, with 3 of them being 1st rounders. (And just in case Nate sees this and asks the question on who the QB would be, I'd sign Teddy Bridgewater to a 3 year deal and still draft a QB in the late first or 2nd round.)

Trying to understand your 5 year window argument.  Mike Brown extends good players, but not the potentially good players they'd take with the extra picks?

Again, I only want to trade the pick if the Bengals aren't aggressive in free agency. If they aren't aggressive, I think the likelihood of Burrow succeeding goes way down. 

(02-01-2020, 03:08 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I should have prefaced my definition of a haul. The updated trade value chart says it'd take Miami's 3 first rounders & a 4th. For Burrow, it'd take 5-6 picks in the first 3 rounds in '20 & '21, with 3 of them being 1st rounders. (And just in case Nate sees this and asks the question on who the QB would be, I'd sign Teddy Bridgewater to a 3 year deal and still draft a QB in the late first or 2nd round.)

Trying to understand your 5 year window argument.  Mike Brown extends good players, but not the potentially good players they'd take with the extra picks?

Again, I only want to trade the pick if the Bengals aren't aggressive in free agency. If they aren't aggressive, I think the likelihood of Burrow succeeding goes way down. 

You want to hit on 3 first round picks that will earn huge contracts in the same year and expect all 3 to be resigned? Highly unlikely.

(02-01-2020, 03:08 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I should have prefaced my definition of a haul. The updated trade value chart says it'd take Miami's 3 first rounders & a 4th. For Burrow, it'd take 5-6 picks in the first 3 rounds in '20 & '21, with 3 of them being 1st rounders. (And just in case Nate sees this and asks the question on who the QB would be, I'd sign Teddy Bridgewater to a 3 year deal and still draft a QB in the late first or 2nd round.)

Trying to understand your 5 year window argument.  Mike Brown extends good players, but not the potentially good players they'd take with the extra picks?

Again, I only want to trade the pick if the Bengals aren't aggressive in free agency. If they aren't aggressive, I think the likelihood of Burrow succeeding goes way down.

So the likely hood of a lesser QB having success, given how this team is run and will continue to be ran, makes sense to you ? 

(02-01-2020, 03:20 PM)Synric Wrote: You want to hit on 3 first round picks that will earn huge contracts in the same year and expect all 3 to be resigned? Highly unlikely.

So the problem could be that the Bengals could get too many good players? 

I kid, but again I'd want 5-6 picks. One would be the #5 pick. Hit on 2-3 of them plus another league average starter or two. When you can't sign everyone, you start doing the compensatory pick game again. 

(02-01-2020, 02:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You will rarely, very rarely, if ever be able to convince people of this who think that way. 

Passing on the most important position on the field for more picks--that all have to hit to be successful--then try to get a top 10 QB from somewhere, which is very hard to do. Pretty much impossible if you're the Bengals and you don't use FA or trade decent/good players.

It seems so easy and i just don't understand people that don't understand this concept. 

Same here Rfaulk. I don't get it man.

(02-01-2020, 02:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well I know they won’t be aggressive in FA and that’s actually one of the reasons I want Burrow so badly. It’s going to take a special player to make up for the way this team is run.

Exactly, want Burrow worse because of our lack of participation in FA, not less.

(02-01-2020, 03:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: So the likely hood of a lesser QB having success, given how this team is run and will continue to be ran, makes sense to you ? 

How this team is run and will likely continue to be run does not make sense to me. That's why I'm suggesting two different scenarios that are outside of what the Bengals do. I think the Bengals can be a playoff team in 2021 if they do one of those scenarios. I don't see that if they draft Burrow and just work through the draft. 

The team needs a major infusion of talent. If the team isn't going to do it by adding good players in free agency, they'd have a better chance of doing it with lots of high draft picks. It's numbers and stuff.

(02-01-2020, 03:56 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: How this team is run and will likely continue to be run does not make sense to me. That's why I'm suggesting two different scenarios that are outside of what the Bengals do. I think the Bengals can be a playoff team in 2021 if they do one of those scenarios. I don't see that if they draft Burrow and just work through the draft. 

The team needs a major infusion of talent. If the team isn't going to do it by adding good players in free agency, they'd have a better chance of doing it with lots of high draft picks. It's numbers and stuff.

But 1 elite QB is worth more than 2-3 elite position players (if you hit on that many). We had Whit, AJ, and Geno all top 5 at their positions at one point and it still couldn’t get us over the hump.

(02-01-2020, 02:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue with this is you are then on the clock.

If they have say 3 first round picks then you have 5 years to win a superbowl because mostly likely 2 will be gone after that. I know you can argue the QB would be gone in 5 but Mike Brown pays his performing players what they are worth so most likely he would get a big extension after 4.

Your logic here makes no sense.  You claim that we would most likely only keep 1 of the 3 players after 5 years. Then you immediately contradict yourself by stating that Mike pays his performing players what they're worth.

Why exactly would he only pay to keep 1 of 3 guys again?

(02-01-2020, 04:32 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But 1 elite QB is worth more than 2-3 elite position players (if you hit on that many). We had Whit, AJ, and Geno all top 5 at their positions at one point and it still couldn’t get us over the hump.

1 "potentially" elite rookie QB with 3 below average O-line starters can quickly become damaged goods. 

My preference is to draft Burrow after signing 2-3 good free agent starters. 

(02-01-2020, 04:47 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: 1 "potentially" elite rookie QB with 3 below average O-line starters can quickly become damaged goods. 

My preference is to draft Burrow after signing 2-3 good free agent starters. 

But that’s not going to happen. We never even bring in 1 good FA let alone 2-3.

Take Burrow, see what we have in Jonah Williams, and go from there. Should be able to get a decent OT and WR in this draft. Sounds like it’s deep at both position this year.