If we draft Burrow and he pulls a Ryan Leaf/Akili Smith flop his first season, the following phases will occur per year:

1. He's just a rookie.
2. It's the coaches.
3. It's mike brown
4. He has a bad O-line
5. He has no receivers.
6. Game OVER

Don't get lit, this will not happen. I just thought I throw it out there.

(02-02-2020, 04:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. And how much will it sting/be rough if they draft Burrow, he'll look like the next super star, and then we watch Mike Brown end a potential Hall of Fame career early with the same level of negligence running this franchise he's shown the last 30 years?

2. OR if they get him, and we watch yet another QB publicly turn on this franchise/Mike Brown before he leaves town and goes and has more success elsewhere and ends up in the Hall of Fame in some other team's uniform anyway. (Franchise Tag might go away this next CBA after all, so potentially only 5 years as a Bengal.)


Long story short... please for the love of God, won't the NFL force the Bengals to sell to somebody competent?

1. About as much as it stung to watch the wasted careers of Palmer, Chad, Dillon, Pickens, Green, etc.

2. About as much as it stung to watch Palmer, Chad, Dillon, Pickens, a punter, etc turn on the team.

I guess a "woulda coulda" scenario is likely either way, but I'd rather it happen with the stud QB prospect than a bunch of Ogbuehis and Fishers.

...and yes it's sad we even need to have these discussions due to the incompetence of the FO. 

People keep bringing up Luck retiring because of all the injuries he sustained behind shitty offensive lines.

Remind me, how many serious injuries did Andy Dalton suffer as a direct result of poor offensive line play?

(02-02-2020, 05:21 PM)Big Boss Wrote: People keep bringing up Luck retiring because of all the injuries he sustained behind shitty offensive lines.

Remind me, how many serious injuries did Andy Dalton suffer as a direct result of poor offensive line play?

Exactly. Some guys are durable, some aren’t.

(02-02-2020, 05:21 PM)Big Boss Wrote: People keep bringing up Luck retiring because of all the injuries he sustained behind shitty offensive lines.

Remind me, how many serious injuries did Andy Dalton suffer as a direct result of poor offensive line play?

Andy Dalton had the 1st-3rd fastest release time in the NFL for most of his career.


- - - - -
He also didn't have a terrible offensive line for the first half-decade of his career. 

2011: Whitworth-Livings-Cook-Williams/Bolling-A Smith
2012: Whitworth-Boling-Faine/Robinson-Zeitler-A Smith
2013: Whitworth-Boling-Cook-Zeitler-A Smith
2014: Whitworth-Boling-Bodine-Zeitler-A Smith/Newhouse
2015: Whitworth-Boling-Bodine-Zeitler-A Smith

It was only once you started throwing in Ogbuehi/Fisher/Redmond/Hart/Miller/Price/Jerry that the OL became shaky. Right now we're looking at an OL of...

Williams/Miller/Hopkins/Jordan/Hart

...and I doubt that will change much seeing as how they just drafted Williams and Jordan, just signed Hopkins to a 3 year extension in Dec, and signed both Hart and Miller to 3 year deals last offseason. That is objectively a far worse OL than anything Dalton had when the Bengals were actually winning football games, and once again I don't think Burrow will have that 1st-3rd fastest release time that Dalton had working for him. Think more Ryan Finley being sacked 11 times in 3 games. That's 59 sacks in a 16 game season. Burrow has never had guys coming at him as fast as they will, and he's probably never played behind a worse OL than he will with the Bengals. 

Not only does Burrow have a really quick release, he’s great at avoiding pressure, and making plays on the run.

A quick release is great, but if you stand there like a statue at the first hint of pressure it doesn’t let WR’s get open. Something we’ve had a TON of trouble with the last few years.

If Jonah works out that Burrow’s blindside, and up the middle covered with Hopkins. Just need to replace Hart, and see if Jordan can continue to develop. We’re never going to have 5 All Pros across the line, Burrow will have to make things happen himself at times.

(02-02-2020, 06:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Andy Dalton had the 1st-3rd fastest release time in the NFL for most of his career.


- - - - -
He also didn't have a terrible offensive line for the first half-decade of his career. 

2011: Whitworth-Livings-Cook-Williams/Bolling-A Smith
2012: Whitworth-Boling-Faine/Robinson-Zeitler-A Smith
2013: Whitworth-Boling-Cook-Zeitler-A Smith
2014: Whitworth-Boling-Bodine-Zeitler-A Smith/Newhouse
2015: Whitworth-Boling-Bodine-Zeitler-A Smith

It was only once you started throwing in Ogbuehi/Fisher/Redmond/Hart/Miller/Price/Jerry that the OL became shaky. Right now we're looking at an OL of...

Williams/Miller/Hopkins/Jordan/Hart

...and I doubt that will change much seeing as how they just drafted Williams and Jordan, just signed Hopkins to a 3 year extension in Dec, and signed both Hart and Miller to 3 year deals last offseason. That is objectively a far worse OL than anything Dalton had when the Bengals were actually winning football games, and once again I don't think Burrow will have that 1st-3rd fastest release time that Dalton had working for him. Think more Ryan Finley being sacked 11 times in 3 games. That's 59 sacks in a 16 game season. Burrow has never had guys coming at him as fast as they will, and he's probably never played behind a worse OL than he will with the Bengals. 

But again, how many times did Dalton sustain a serious injury behind these bad lines?  

I'm obviously not advocating for Burrow to have a shitty line.  But I think it's silly to look at Andrew Luck and think that's going to happen to Burrow.  Luck just had... well, a lot of bad luck.  He's a lot like Eifert in that regard.  Just a series of freak injuries one after the other.  

We're not fixing everything in one season, guys. That's just the reality of it. Grab your franchise QB now while you can, and continue adding linemen through the next few drafts.

(02-02-2020, 06:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not only does Burrow have a really quick release, he’s great at avoiding pressure, and making plays on the run.

A quick release is great, but if you stand there like a statue at the first hint of pressure it doesn’t let WR’s get open. Something we’ve had a TON of trouble with the last few years.

If Jonah works out that Burrow’s blindside, and up the middle covered with Hopkins. Just need to replace Hart, and see if Jordan can continue to develop. We’re never going to have 5 All Pros across the line, Burrow will have to make things happen himself at times.

Burrow knows a little something about being pressured, as he was pressured more than all but one SEC QB this year. Although people keep claiming that LSU had an unbelievable line and Burrow had all kinds of time, it simply isn't true. He was pressured and forced to go off script quite a bit...and his stats were unreal when doing so. 

Not only that, but when you look at his numbers versus zone and man, or being blitzed versus no blitz, etc. there's virtually no difference. It didn't matter the defense, the scheme, clean pocket, under pressure...it simply didn't matter. He adapted, adjusted and continued to dominate in every situation and circumstance.

Given all that, combined with his knowledge of the game, ability to read defenses and being able to create something out of nothing...I don't think he'll have the issues behind this line (whatever shape it takes) as some think. I actually think he could potentially make a line look better than it actually is.

(02-02-2020, 06:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Burrow knows a little something about being pressured, as he was pressured more than all but one SEC QB this year. Although people keep claiming that LSU had an unbelievable line and Burrow had all kinds of time, it simply isn't true. He was pressured and forced to go off script quite a bit...and his stats were unreal when doing so. 

Not only that, but when you look at his numbers versus zone and man, or being blitzed versus no blitz, etc. there's virtually no difference. It didn't matter the defense, the scheme, clean pocket, under pressure...it simply didn't matter. He adapted, adjusted and continued to dominate in every situation and circumstance.

Given all that, combined with his knowledge of the game, ability to read defenses and being able to create something out of nothing...I don't think he'll have the issues behind this line (whatever shape it takes) as some think. I actually think he could potentially make a line look better than it actually is.

Yes.

I thought he looked shaky early on against Clemson. The 7 DBs were giving him some trouble. He was carving them up before long, and was downright surgical as the game rolled on.

(01-31-2020, 12:52 PM)pally Wrote: For the paranoid among us

Man, we have a long way to go until this all plays out but hard not to connect the dots on what Carson said this week, Jordan Palmer taking over training Joe Burrow and this answer to the question of going at the top of the draft.

Maybe I'm just looking too hard but ... https://t.co/sjlwA8b87d

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) January 31, 2020

Mike Brown is not going to let Palmer jerk him around.  He will draft Burrow anyway and he won't trade him.  

(02-02-2020, 06:58 PM)jason Wrote: Yes.

I thought he looked shaky early on against Clemson. The 7 DBs were giving him some trouble. He was carving them up before long, and was downright surgical as the game rolled on.

Well, tbf he was backed up inside the 10 for the first couple possessions.

(02-02-2020, 07:29 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Mike Brown is not going to let Palmer jerk him around.  He will draft Burrow anyway and he won't trade him.  

He'd be punching his ticket out of Cincinnati if he did.  If this team got nothing out of a number 1 overall (and 14-2 season) because Mike let him rot and refused to cash in, it would effectively be over for pro football in this town.  It's bad enough as it is.  That would be the coffin nail.

(02-02-2020, 08:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, tbf he was backed up inside the 10 for the first couple possessions.

Yeah... I remember them having bad field position, and quite frankly nerves may have been an issue early on. I texted my buddy, who's an OU alum, and was driving the Joe Burrow to the Bengals bus as early as you were. I told him Burrow is throwing some ugly balls. His response... Your balls are ugly.

But yeah; he settled in nicely, and brought it against a defense full of NFL caliber players. I just watched a game where a mediocre QB couldn't get it done in crunch time. We can only hope we're a couple of years away from from our guy getting the job done.

(02-02-2020, 02:52 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: So the Carsons are heavily involved, no one has mentioned this but...this could be an AZ Cardinals ambush, they could be going for their third #1 QB.
The Carsons  are grooming him to the Cardinals.

Its a theory, no need to get lit up. Just thought I throw it out there.

Go Burrow!

Cardinals picked a QB in the first round the last two years( Rosen and Murray). They are the last team we have to worry about. 

(02-02-2020, 08:41 PM)samhain Wrote: He'd be punching his ticket out of Cincinnati if he did.  If this team got nothing out of a number 1 overall (and 14-2 season) because Mike let him rot and refused to cash in, it would effectively be over for pro football in this town.  It's bad enough as it is.  That would be the coffin nail.

I doubt Burrow would refuse to play. The Bengals would own his rights.

(02-03-2020, 12:47 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I doubt Burrow would refuse to play. The Bengals would own his rights.

Plus, Joe has already said he's willing to play for anyone that's willing to pay.

(02-02-2020, 04:49 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If we draft Burrow and he pulls a Ryan Leaf/Akili Smith flop his first season, the following phases will occur per year:

1. He's just a rookie.
2. It's the coaches.
3. It's mike brown
4. He has a bad O-line
5. He has no receivers.
6. Game OVER

Don't get lit, this will not happen. I just thought I throw it out there.

There is a chance in a year from now we are all talking about how excited we are to finally see Burrow play in a "real system" now that ZT has been fired.  As I've said before I lived in Chicago so I see a lot of Bears fans talking and they had the following responses about Mitch Trubisky...

Year 1 - he looks crappy, but John Fox is a lousy fossil of a coach so he should look better without him next year
Year 2 - see?  he doesn't look great but he's clearly on the upswing!
Year 3 - Crap, I think we need a new QB...or maybe Nagy sucks too?

We blamed 2018 on the coaches and we blamed 2019 on the players...if 2020 is a bit of a dud I'm predicting the non-Burrow players and the coaching staff are going to get lambasted.

(02-03-2020, 12:47 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I doubt Burrow would refuse to play. The Bengals would own his rights.

For a season.  Then he becomes draft eligible in 2021.  Not ideal for anyone involved.

(02-03-2020, 03:33 AM)samhain Wrote: For a season.  Then he becomes draft eligible in 2021.  Not ideal for anyone involved.

I can't see him sitting out a whole year.  And I can't see Mike Brown letting Carson Palmer dictate what happens to his team.  

is jordan palmer the best trainer? lol