(02-05-2020, 12:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: For the people insisting that burrow was clearly qb1 even if tua hadn’t got hurt

Todd McShay on @dpshow:

“I would take Tua over Joe Burrow if there were no medical concerns.”

Compared him to Drew Brees.

Bigger, stronger, more accurate, destroyed nearly every team he faced (including the #1 defense in college football).  Hmmm.  I can see why McShay likes Tua better 

(02-06-2020, 11:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: Tua's schedule before he got hurt was not good at all. He creamed cupcakes, something Burrow did as well.



I'd argue Burrow had played a much better schedule at that point as he played a ranked Texas, Auburn, Florida, and then Bama. He played well in all of those games as well. 



It's interesting more people are finally starting to accept that Burrow could simply be better than Tua, not just because of Tua's injuries either. I mentioned Daniel Jeremiah saying that and he is not alone in that take. The problem with scouting is people don't like to admit their early beliefs on guys were wrong. People who pushed "Tank for Tua" and proclaimed him the next coming won't easily move off that position that someone could be better. We could see a similar situation with Lawrence next year because of how strongly entrenched people were his freshman year about him being the best prospect in X year. 

You are referring to 2019 only. Tua got to the National Championship twice, winning once.
As I've already stated, Tua had a better resume up to Nov 16, 2019 due to the years prior IMO.
My opinion won't change on Tua not being the top QB prospect before he went down to injury on Nov 16.

The way I analyze prospects is different than others, I understand that. I put more stock into what have you done in the previous years than some/most do. I realize that can be wrong at times, but I've mostly seen it to be a good indicator of success vs having a single dominant year.

With that said, Burrow elevated his game so well over the course of 2019 that he deserves to go 1st overall and worthy of that even if Tua had been fully healthy all year.

(02-06-2020, 12:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You are referring to 2019 only. Tua got to the National Championship twice, winning once.
As I've already stated, Tua had a better resume up to Nov 16, 2019 due to the years prior IMO.
My opinion won't change on Tua not being the top QB prospect before he went down to injury on Nov 16.

The way I analyze prospects is different than others, I understand that. I put more stock into what have you done in the previous years than some/most do. I realize that can be wrong at times, but I've mostly seen it to be a good indicator of success vs having a single dominant year.

With that said, Burrow elevated his game so well over the course of 2019 that he deserves to go 1st overall and worthy of that even if Tua had been fully healthy all year.

He played three quarters in the national title they won, and he lost the one he started after needing Jalen Hurts to win in the SEC championship game to get them in. I'm not saying he isn't a great player but if we are going to call the first national title Tua's because he played part of one game then we need to call the second trip to the title game Hurt's because they aren't there if he doesn't save them in the SEC title game. 

I would argue though that Burrow didn't have a similar situation in terms of personnel or coordinators until this past season so to compare much before then isn't really apples to apples. This year with similar talent around them and similar scheme's (not necessarily the same but in LSU case modified spread versus power run) along with similar talent in coaching you saw Burrow perform better. I get it, nothing I say will change your mind and that's fine I'm just pointing out that all comparison's aren't always fair. 

My issue is Tua played one full season essentially last year after mop up duty and a save in the NCG the year before and everyone proclaimed him the undisputed #1 pick coming into the year. His one year of greatness that people used to move to "Tank for Tua" and set him firmly as the best player in the draft entering the year wasn't close to as good as Burrow's season this year. There are people who would have told you last year if he could have come out they would have taken Tua #1, now how is that really different then Burrow at this point?

I know this guy has a hard on for not liking burrow since hes the main guy who keeps posting trade down mocks, but when is enough enough?

Everyone knows what the beginning of the year was tank for tua.

What did tua do this year? The nfl is a what have you done lately league, and tya was hurt damn near all year. Burrow lit it up all year, against the best cfb defenses, and nothing stopped him.

Literally every other qb in this draft is a project. Every other one. Zac wants to move on from Dalton this year.

Do the critical thinking.

(02-06-2020, 12:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I know this guy has a hard on for not liking burrow since hes the main guy who keeps posting trade down mocks, but when is enough enough?

Everyone knows what the beginning of the year was tank for tua.

What did tua do this year? The nfl is a what have you done lately league, and tya was hurt damn near all year. Burrow lit it up all year, against the best cfb defenses, and nothing stopped him.

Literally every other qb in this draft is a project. Every other one. Zac wants to move on from Dalton this year.

Do the critical thinking.

Right on

The thing about the one year wonder, I get it. And there's plenty of examples of one year wonders that failed in the NFL.

Where the separation comes in, (and I don't get why people don't understand) is he didn't just have a garden variety one year wonder season. He blew every metric out of the water like the battleship Missouri facing off vs. a 16 foot john boat !

You could make a long list of all the attributes and stuff he did that's just mind boggling. It's just a total slam dunk.

(02-06-2020, 12:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: What did tua do this year?

Post a higher passer rating than Burrow.

(02-06-2020, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Post a higher passer rating than Burrow.

And the year before.

(02-06-2020, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Post a higher passer rating than Burrow.

How many games he play this year?

(02-06-2020, 11:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, Burrow absolutely did.
But people are acting like Burrow was always the frontrunner and Tua was worse, which was definitely not true.
Burrow really elevated his game in 2019 whereas Tua has always been rather consistently good.
Aside from the injury concerns, Tua has the best shot to be a good NFL QB aside from Burrow.

Completely agree, true Tua was the frontrunner early in 2019 no question. 

Burrow just came into his own and lit everybody up in record fashion.

(02-06-2020, 11:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: Tua's schedule before he got hurt was not good at all. He creamed cupcakes, something Burrow did as well.



I'd argue Burrow had played a much better schedule at that point as he played a ranked Texas, Auburn, Florida, and then Bama. He played well in all of those games as well. 



It's interesting more people are finally starting to accept that Burrow could simply be better than Tua, not just because of Tua's injuries either. I mentioned Daniel Jeremiah saying that and he is not alone in that take. The problem with scouting is people don't like to admit their early beliefs on guys were wrong. People who pushed "Tank for Tua" and proclaimed him the next coming won't easily move off that position that someone could be better. We could see a similar situation with Lawrence next year because of how strongly entrenched people were his freshman year about him being the best prospect in X year. 

Thanks for this AU165 appreciate you looking this up and posting this for us.

(02-06-2020, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Post a higher passer rating than Burrow.

In (less than) half the amount of attempts.

(02-06-2020, 12:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I know this guy has a hard on for not liking burrow since hes the main guy who keeps posting trade down mocks, but when is enough enough?

Everyone knows what the beginning of the year was tank for tua.

What did tua do this year? The nfl is a what have you done lately league, and tya was hurt damn near all year. Burrow lit it up all year, against the best cfb defenses, and nothing stopped him.

Literally every other qb in this draft is a project. Every other one. Zac wants to move on from Dalton this year.

Do the critical thinking.

On what planet is tua a project? The only way tua is a project is health. No other way. Burrow has shown the ability to suck and be a 5th-6th-7th round pick something tua has never done.

(02-07-2020, 06:38 AM)Jpoore Wrote: On what planet is tua a project? The only way tua is a project is health. No other way. Burrow has shown the ability to suck and be a 5th-6th-7th round pick something tua has never done.

That's exactly why he is a project, he gets hit and gets  hurt. His hip will change his game the rest of his career if he can even play.

Burrow transferred and started on a team that was heavy run and barely any pass, with an arm talent that was still raw and was hitting his receivers in tight coverage still. He takes hits, gets back up and keeps playing. He works hard in the offseason, works on his accuracy, his arm strength, new offense designed for an nfl team, and blows up defenses, even Clemson's who has an nfl defensive scheme.

What else ya got? Can I drop the mic?

(02-07-2020, 06:38 AM)Jpoore Wrote: On what planet is tua a project? The only way tua is a project is health. No other way. Burrow has shown the ability to suck and be a 5th-6th-7th round pick something tua has never done.

He never sucked.

(02-07-2020, 06:38 AM)Jpoore Wrote: On what planet is tua a project? The only way tua is a project is health. No other way. Burrow has shown the ability to suck and be a 5th-6th-7th round pick something tua has never done.

Tua Tagovailoa is finally getting broke down as far as a prospect. There are red flags.

He was average at best against top teams. He is very dependent off the run game with most of his success coming from play action when the run game struggles he struggles. While he does well running boots under pressure his accuracy drops to below to around average. He is not the type of QB to attack downfield most of his passes are within 15 yards with 1/5th behind or at the line of scrimmage.

Tua Tagovailoa throws a very pretty ball and when kept clean he has excellent accuracy and ball placement. He has solid short area quickness and shows upside as a runner but didnt run as much as people believe in college.

Add in 3 injuries and 3 surgeries in 2 years and kinda have to step back and say meh...

(02-07-2020, 06:10 PM)Synric Wrote: Tua Tagovailoa is finally getting broke down as far as a prospect. There are red flags.

He was average at best against top teams. He is very dependent off the run game with most of his success coming from play action when the run game struggles he struggles. While he does well running boots under pressure his accuracy drops to below to around average. He is not the type of QB to attack downfield most of his passes are within 15 yards with 1/5th behind or at the line of scrimmage.

Tua Tagovailoa throws a very pretty ball and when kept clean he has excellent accuracy and ball placement. He has solid short area quickness and shows upside as a runner but didnt run as much as people believe in college.

Add in 3 injuries and 3 surgeries in 2 years and kinda have to step back and say meh...

So essentially U just described drew brees

(02-07-2020, 10:13 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: That's exactly why he is a project, he gets hit and gets  hurt. His hip will change his game the rest of his career if he can even play.

Burrow transferred and started on a team that was heavy run and barely any pass, with an arm talent that was still raw and was hitting his receivers in tight coverage still. He takes hits, gets back up and keeps playing. He works hard in the offseason, works on his accuracy, his arm strength, new offense designed for an nfl team, and blows up defenses, even Clemson's who has an nfl defensive scheme.

What else ya got? Can I drop the mic?

Burrow isn’t without his injury history... he’s broken his right hand twice. His hip isn’t a issue it’s not gonna change the way he plays. As far as burrow yeah when he had elite players every where u look he preformed. What did he do when He didn’t? Oh yeah he sucked.

(02-08-2020, 04:29 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Burrow isn’t without his injury history... he’s broken his right hand twice. His hip isn’t a issue it’s not gonna change the way he plays.  As far as burrow yeah when he had elite players every where u look he preformed. What did he do when He didn’t? Oh yeah he sucked.

Yeah he sucked! That's why he went to a bowl game against the hottest team in college that year in UCF and beat them! He even took a HUGE hit in that game and got up. That hit would have put tua down fir the entire next season! 

(02-08-2020, 04:29 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Burrow isn’t without his injury history... he’s broken his right hand twice. His hip isn’t a issue it’s not gonna change the way he plays.  As far as burrow yeah when he had elite players every where u look he preformed. What did he do when He didn’t? Oh yeah he sucked.

LSU had almost the exact same offensive roster in 2018 as it did in 2019. 

(02-08-2020, 04:29 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Burrow isn’t without his injury history... he’s broken his right hand twice. His hip isn’t a issue it’s not gonna change the way he plays.  As far as burrow yeah when he had elite players every where u look he preformed. What did he do when He didn’t? Oh yeah he sucked.

Burrow did not "suck" in 2018.  As a first year starter, he showed a lot of poise and promise as a confident leader of a top level program in the most competitive conference in NCAA football.

In 2019, he delivered on all of that promise that he showed was there in 2018, unlike Jordan Love, who regressed horribly..

(02-06-2020, 12:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I know this guy has a hard on for not liking burrow since hes the main guy who keeps posting trade down mocks, but when is enough enough?

Everyone knows what the beginning of the year was tank for tua.

What did tua do this year? The nfl is a what have you done lately league, and tya was hurt damn near all year. Burrow lit it up all year, against the best cfb defenses, and nothing stopped him.

Literally every other qb in this draft is a project. Every other one. Zac wants to move on from Dalton this year.

Do the critical thinking.

Right.

Draft the current worthy player.

Not the one who is injured and rely solely on his past merits.

Known injury risks with Tua.

Unknown perceptional risks with Burrow.

I'll take the latter.