(02-28-2020, 07:11 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4


G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade

T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A


This is why the Bengals were the worst team in the league.  The entire line needs to be upgraded.
Hart sucks.  He would not start on any playoff team.  Is that not the goal?

John Jerry played T for Us and Andre Smith as well last season.

Things would have been better if not for the Williams injury and the Boling retirement... That really thru the line into disarray.

(02-28-2020, 07:11 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Hart sucks.  He would not start on any playoff team.  

Link?

PFF individual rankings are a joke, but lets see all the starting OTs for the playoff teams.

(02-28-2020, 05:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF had Hart rated as the 67th ranked OT in the league last year.
Overall rating 57.7.
68.7 in pass blocking, 46.3 in run blocking.

Oh c'mon.  You can't go by those.  You have to break it down to 5(you can decide if it's 5, 4, 3, whatever)games to get the real picture.  

Fred likes to point to some posted stats being subjective, then proceeds to make subjective threads with his selective stats. 

(02-28-2020, 05:13 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: You all would be begging for Hart back at RT if we let Isaiah Prince start a few games in his place.

Damn straight.

I think Fred Johnson might be the Bengals best O lineman next year.He’ll either replace Hart or Miller.This guy is a Beast.I am really glad the Bengals picked him up.Keep Hart as a back-up,which is where he belongs on the depth chart.We want lineman who can dominate,not just your average Joe’s.

(02-29-2020, 03:20 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I think Fred Johnson might be the Bengals best O lineman next year.He’ll either replace Hart or Miller.This guy is a Beast.I am really glad the Bengals picked him up.Keep Hart as a back-up,which is where he belongs on the depth chart.We want lineman who can dominate,not just your average Joe’s.

That's the problem.  Such a passive approach to evaluating this O-line.

Yeah we all know you can't realistically have top-notch dominant players in every position, but shit at least try to get a player or two that can not only protetct the QB and be useful in the run game but be better than average at doing it!

We'll see what happens but this defending of Hart and other bad players we've had to watch for years now is dumb.

We can't actually do anything anyways, but we don't have to enjoy the crappy gruel they're dishing out either because some fans tell us we should.

Oh well... "squeal on" I guess.

(02-27-2020, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2019 Bobby Hart played 92 more snaps than he did in 2018 (1086 to 994), but even more important the Bengals had 85 more passing plays (attempts + sacks) than 2018 (664 to 579).  Yet Hart only allowed about a third as many sacks in 2019 as 2018 (4 to 11.5) and he cut his penalties in half (12 to 6).  Only 2 of Harts 6 penalties were holding.

There were 64 players that started at least 8 games as an OT last year and played at least 500 snaps.  If you look at snaps per (sacks allowed + holding penalties) Hart ranked 13th among those 64.  He also ranked 25th in sacks per snap. 


https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/2/18/21142328/2019-offensive-line-pass-blocking-review 

Since stats on O-linemen are kind of obscure I think a lot of people hate Hart based on 2018.  I am starting to see why the Bengals had faith in him.

I was looking for him at the Pro Bowl, couldn’t locate him or Vigil ?

(02-27-2020, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2019 Bobby Hart played 92 more snaps than he did in 2018 (1086 to 994), but even more important the Bengals had 85 more passing plays (attempts + sacks) than 2018 (664 to 579).  Yet Hart only allowed about a third as many sacks in 2019 as 2018 (4 to 11.5) and he cut his penalties in half (12 to 6).  Only 2 of Harts 6 penalties were holding.

There were 64 players that started at least 8 games as an OT last year and played at least 500 snaps.  If you look at snaps per (sacks allowed + holding penalties) Hart ranked 13th among those 64.  He also ranked 25th in sacks per snap. 


https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/2/18/21142328/2019-offensive-line-pass-blocking-review 

Since stats on O-linemen are kind of obscure I think a lot of people hate Hart based on 2018.  I am starting to see why the Bengals had faith in him.

Hart, who probably had his best year last season was still sub-average, which is a long ways from "very good". Still not worth the salary he's getting and the team would be better off upgrading the spot.

The scary part is that the team, for the 2nd year in a row doesn't really see the need for an upgrade.

 

(02-28-2020, 07:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

commonsense.com/bobbyhartisaturdsandwich

(02-27-2020, 07:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hope he does.

I am not trying to start a Bobby Hart fan club or anything.  I just think he is one of those guys who fans have decided to hate no matter how well he plays.

I dunno..You could start the Bobby Hart Fan Club International and become the CEO and CFO then make millions on the salary alone not to mention all the naming rights and revenue from Bobby Hart Fan Club International apparel and when he runs for president you could be his campaign manager and get fees for speaking engagement, book deals, etc.. It could be a stepping stone to a brighter future!
On the other hand perhaps I'm overthinking this a bit.. Nah..just stick to hoping. It doesn't cost anything.

(02-27-2020, 09:43 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: True, but Hart often fails the eye test. Billy Price fails it just about every time. 

Hey, there might be hope for Billy....

(03-01-2020, 12:43 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey, there might be hope for Billy....

Let's hope that they find a way to use him, as words cannot express the level of disappointment I have experienced with his failure to be productive.

(03-01-2020, 12:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Let's hope that they find a way to use him, as words cannot express the level of disappointment I have experienced with his failure to be productive.

So true, cannot believe Price has been this bad. Saw him being at the very least serviceable this early in his career.

Thought he had the biggest upside of the Centers in his class with his anchor, run blocking and smarts.

I have been dead wrong so far.

(02-27-2020, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2019 Bobby Hart played 92 more snaps than he did in 2018 (1086 to 994), but even more important the Bengals had 85 more passing plays (attempts + sacks) than 2018 (664 to 579).  Yet Hart only allowed about a third as many sacks in 2019 as 2018 (4 to 11.5) and he cut his penalties in half (12 to 6).  Only 2 of Harts 6 penalties were holding.

There were 64 players that started at least 8 games as an OT last year and played at least 500 snaps.  If you look at snaps per (sacks allowed + holding penalties) Hart ranked 13th among those 64.  He also ranked 25th in sacks per snap. 


https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/2/18/21142328/2019-offensive-line-pass-blocking-review 

Since stats on O-linemen are kind of obscure I think a lot of people hate Hart based on 2018.  I am starting to see why the Bengals had faith in him.

you are amazing with some stats that we never see.... just watching the entire season.. you could tell he was much improved from last year... that is a good sign.. he has to continue that this year.... I really liked to stayed healthy.. i key for OT

(02-28-2020, 07:11 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4


G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade

T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A


This is why the Bengals were the worst team in the league.  The entire line needs to be upgraded.
Hart sucks.  He would not start on any playoff team.  Is that not the goal?

Actually he was  better than playoff bound Seahawks RT Germain Ifedi.. he was 5th in penalties with 13 and gave up 6th sacks...

I'd be very comfortable with Hart as our first back up OT.

But we can definitely upgrade his position.

We can also upgrade both guard spots (although I think RG will be prioritized over LG because they have faith in Jordan taking a big step in year 2).

(02-29-2020, 03:54 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: We'll see what happens but this defending of Hart and other bad players we've had to watch for years now is dumb.

Oh well... "squeal on" I guess.

What is dumb is going by message board group think and refusing to look at what is happening on the field.  Hart played MUCH better in 2019.  He reduced his sacks by two-thirds and was 25th in the league in sacks per snap among OTs.  He cut his penalties in half.

It reminds me what Whitwirht went through here.  He got lit up his rookie season starting at OT against the Colts who had Freeney and Mathis.  He improved dramatically and became one fo the best pass blocking OTs in the league but there were still lots of Bengal fans saying he should be moved to OG because "He couldn't handle speed rushers".  Once the haters latch on to a whipping boy they refuse to ever acknowledge good play from them.

(03-02-2020, 11:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What is dumb is going by message board group think and refusing to look at what is happening on the field.  Hart played MUCH better in 2019.  He reduced his sacks by two-thirds and was 25th in the league in sacks per snap among OTs.  He cut his penalties in half.

It reminds me what Whitwirht went through here.  He got lit up his rookie season starting at OT against the Colts who had Freeney and Mathis.  He improved dramatically and became one fo the best pass blocking OTs in the league but there were still lots of Bengal fans saying he should be moved to OG because "He couldn't handle speed rushers".  Once the haters latch on to a whipping boy they refuse to ever acknowledge good play from them.

Yes, preach on brother Fred.  It's just like that.

Haters and whipping boy.  So original.

He's better than the pile he was.

I'll admit that there are far worse players than Hart on the O-Line.

The bar is set low.

(02-29-2020, 10:23 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Oh c'mon.  You can't go by those.  You have to break it down to 5(you can decide if it's 5, 4, 3, whatever)games to get the real picture.  

Fred likes to point to some posted stats being subjective, then proceeds to make subjective threads with his selective stats. 

I think it's more accurate to say Hart improved in the passing game, which is true.
When comparing Hart's 2019 to 2018 seasons on PFF...

2019:
overall = 57.7
pass block = 68.7 (715 snaps)
run block = 46.3 (371 snaps)
penalties = 8
sacks allowed = 6

2018:
overall = 57.1
pass block = 62.9 (651)
run block = 56.1 (343)
penalties = 11
sacks allowed = 10

So Bobby Hart did better as a pass blocker, but he performed worse against the run.
And, as was accurately mentioned by others, the horrid performance of the OL in the first 8 games likely doomed any run blocking rating any player would have by year's end.

There's a (small) chance that if the Bengals stick to the directional run blocking that made them successful in second half of 2019 and keep up the pass blocking, Hart (along with rest of the OL) could actually be decent with an upgrade or two.