(03-27-2020, 03:55 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: Drew Sample isn't a bust. You have to have some type of promise before you fail and Drew had nothing to begin with.  

I will give the Bengals credit though: They at least tried to address their offensive line woes with their first two picks last year.

Hello Ignore.

(03-27-2020, 03:56 PM)McC Wrote: Hello Ignore.

That's fine. You have every right. 

But just know you're doing the exact same thing the Bengals did to Drew. He played 10% of eligible snaps last year so congrats to you for following the Bengals lead.  

(03-27-2020, 04:03 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote:  He played 10% of eligible snaps last year

Define "eligible snaps"

(03-27-2020, 03:55 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: Drew Sample isn't a bust. You have to have some type of promise before you fail and Drew had nothing to begin with.  

Sample has good size (6'5", 255), soft hands, and a good football IQ.

He also has good agility and athleticism.  Here is how he ranked among TEs at the 2019 combine.

5th in 3 come
5th in 60 yd shuttle
6th in short shuttle
8th in vertical
9th in broad jump
9th in 40 yd dash

But thanks for proving how much you know.

(03-27-2020, 04:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sample has good size (6'5", 255), soft hands, and a good football IQ.

He also has good agility and athleticism.  Here is how he ranked among TEs at the 2019 combine.

5th in 3 come
5th in 60 yd shuttle
6th in short shuttle
8th in vertical
9th in broad jump
9th in 40 yd dash

But thanks for proving how much you know.

Not sure what this proves. Those are not particularly good results. 8th and 9th? And yet he was the 4th TE taken.

(03-27-2020, 01:30 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Lol.  Of course he said that.    Sample showed absolutely nothing last year.   He got blown up all year long n stunk up the place.   Let me guess he is pretty much a rookie this year.

Don't know why you quoted me, never said a thing about Sample in my post...

(03-27-2020, 02:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sample, despite only playing 9 games, had as many receptions his rookie season as these other TEs

Ben Watson (547 career receptions)
Kellen Winslow (469 career receptions)
Marcus Pollard (349 career receptions)
Desmond Clark (323 career receptions)
Steve Jordan (6 time Pro Bowl)
Travis Kelce (5 time Pro Bowl)
Todd Christiansen (5 time Pro Bowl)
Jay Novacek (5 time Pro Bowl)
Wesley Walls (5 time Pro Bowl)
Rodney Holman (3 time Pro Bowl)
Mark Chmura (3 time Pro Bowl)
Delanie Walker (3 time Pro Bowl)

Hall of Famer Shannon Sharpe only had 7 receptions his rookie season.

That doesn't matter at all Fred. There's posters on here that say he has no talent after 9 games in year 1 and the case is already closed. So forget what this player does in years 2, 3 and 4.
Let's just move on I guess....Lmao

(03-26-2020, 01:50 AM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I don't even know where to start with you J24? Let's simplify this.
I'll take the Bengals coaching staff and the players they felt they needed to be brought in to fit in their systems over you just giving everyone your opinion that they didn't really upgrade anywhere.
I mean seriously???? What makes you an authority over the Bengals coaches and FO?

At the minimum using raw numbers, every defensive player they signed has a history of being good to above average tacklers! Guess what?
The players leaving their defense couldn't tackle anybody!! Did you watch the same games as me by chance???

And, since when is it better to pay(Overpay) a LB like Schobert and give them the same kind of money as a starting DB such as Waynes?
You'd have rather them spent that money on a LB? Are you kidding me?
The NFL values LB franchise tags almost as badly as Running backs.
The franchise tags for DB's are up there with the Left tackles and WRs. Everyone seems to realize the importance of the DB over the LB position except you. That's extortion what those LBers got.

And in regards to Vonn vs Williams, it's not even close J24.
In the last 4 years, Williams has 66 stops and 59 missed tackles. That's almost a 1:1 ratio. For a strong safety????
On the contrary, Bell had 107 stops to just 33 missed tackles. That's better than a 3:1 ratio. That's good for a Strong Safety!
And, he's 3 years younger than Williams.
He's not the free safety, he's the strong safety. He needs to be able to tackle in the back end and come down into the box when needed to either blitz or tackle someone.
Like I said, it's not even close.

I have faith in the Bengals coaching staff until proven otherwise.

Lol they were 2-14 last season but yes let's have all the confidence in the Bengals coaching staff + front office. 

the guy isn't good in pass coverage he's given up 10 Tds to one INT.  It's a passing league & dude sucks in pass coverage.
Have you seen our LB core over the last 3 seasons they have sucked ass. So maybe improving the position work be IDK smart. 

Thirdly I have watched every Bengal game since 2011 so yeah I watched the same games you have watched. The defense played like crap weeks 2-10 after that they solidified its self( after Brown was cut). The secondary wasn't the problem with the unit it was the LB core.  Wayne's + Alexander is a minimal improvement at best over Dre + Dennard.
Littleton or Schobert would have been a major improvement over Vigil and Brown.

(03-25-2020, 11:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: PFF certainly isn't the only thing we can use to judge players on.  However, "X isn't an upgrade over Y because I say so" isn't really a discussion point.  Gotta bring more to the table than that.

It's the job of the coaches and FO to identify players that will work in their schemes to upgrade the roster.  If they're signing guys over top of guys currently on the roster, it's because they feel those players will work better in their schemes.  Some of these guys will probably surprise, both for good and for bad.  

What Shawn Williams, WJIII, Vigil, and company did years ago in Paul Guenther's defense is pretty much irrelevant because they don't play in Paul Guenther's defense anymore.  We have seen one year of those guys in Lou Anarumo's defense, so that's what we have to base their performance and ability to produce within the scheme on.  It doesn't necessarily mean these guys can't produce in a different scheme.  However, they performed poorly in the current scheme so the FO is bringing in players that they expect to perform better.

Our LB's sucked last year against both the run and the pass.  A guy that can at least play the run is an upgrade.  If they can stop the run and get to 3rd and long, they can get Bynes off the field.  Plus, he's a smart player and disciplined in his assignments and should be able to help the younger guys.  

It's a passing league teams don't just don't run on first down anymore. If he is one of our 3 down LBers were in trouble. If we use him like we did with James Harrison in 13 then he will be fine.

(03-25-2020, 11:47 PM)Mobster Wrote: You're going to be so baffled next season, wondering why our defense is so much better than it was last year.

The Defense was actually improving as the season went along. The secondary/Dline actually played fairly well during the last 7 games.
57% completion + 21 sacks last 7 games of year. 
So no I won't be that surprised if the Defense is better next year infact I would expect it given how they improved at the end of last season.

(03-27-2020, 05:41 PM)J24 Wrote: Lol they were 2-14 last season but yes let's have all the confidence in the Bengals coaching staff + front office. 

the guy isn't good in pass coverage he's given up 10 Tds to one INT.  It's a passing league & dude sucks in pass coverage.
Have you seen our LB core over the last 3 seasons they have sucked ass. So maybe improving the position work be IDK smart. 

Thirdly I have watched every Bengal game since 2011 so yeah I watched the same games you have watched. The defense played like crap weeks 2-10 after that they solidified its self( after Brown was cut). The secondary wasn't the problem with the unit it was the LB core.  Wayne's + Alexander is a minimal improvement at best over Dre + Dennard.
Littleton or Schobert would have been a major improvement over Vigil and Brown.

You just want to keep ignoring the "factual" grades placed upon these players. They need to be graded in some way, not just your opinion.
The facts clearly and factually are that our DB's couldn't tackle anyone last year. So, Dre/Webb/McRae/Dennard couldn't tackle anyone or wasn't available to tackle anyone (Dennard), and the Bengals were bludgeoned on outside runs all season long. Then, on the inside and safety, Brown/Vigil/Williams couldn't tackle anyone either.

So guess what? They have tried to replace them with higher graded tackling players. And they have. And, you don't want to recognize that or give them any credit for it.

There's just some fans who will never be happy. You should be rejoicing right now that the Bengals had a plan and delivered it and paying out $145 Million in the process. This is unprecedented and you're not happy over a LB. Seriously?

They were smart for not overpaying for either Littleton or Schobert. Jacksonville is constantly on the "Loser" list in FA b/c they had to spend so much to land Schobert. But, you're just on board with that move. 

(03-27-2020, 06:17 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You just want to keep ignoring the "factual" grades placed upon these players. They need to be graded in some way, not just your opinion.
The facts clearly and factually are that our DB's couldn't tackle anyone last year. So, Dre/Webb/McRae/Dennard couldn't tackle anyone or wasn't available to tackle anyone (Dennard), and the Bengals were bludgeoned on outside runs all season long. Then, on the inside and safety, Brown/Vigil/Williams couldn't tackle anyone either.

So guess what? They have tried to replace them with higher graded tackling players. And they have. And, you don't want to recognize that or give them any credit for it.

There's just some fans who will never be happy. You should be rejoicing right now that the Bengals had a plan and delivered it and paying out $145 Million in the process. This is unprecedented and you're not happy over a LB. Seriously?

They were smart for not overpaying for either Littleton or Schobert. Jacksonville is constantly on the "Loser" list in FA b/c they had to spend so much to land Schobert. But, you're just on board with that move. 

Well said. 

Seems like the Bengals put number on those FA LB's they weren't going to go over and they stuck to it.  There are LB's in the draft and there are also several damn near LB sized S's too.

(03-27-2020, 06:17 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You just want to keep ignoring the "factual" grades placed upon these players. They need to be graded in some way, not just your opinion.
The facts clearly and factually are that our DB's couldn't tackle anyone last year. So, Dre/Webb/McRae/Dennard couldn't tackle anyone or wasn't available to tackle anyone (Dennard), and the Bengals were bludgeoned on outside runs all season long. Then, on the inside and safety, Brown/Vigil/Williams couldn't tackle anyone either.

So guess what? They have tried to replace them with higher graded tackling players. And they have. And, you don't want to recognize that or give them any credit for it.

There's just some fans who will never be happy. You should be rejoicing right now that the Bengals had a plan and delivered it and paying out $145 Million in the process. This is unprecedented and you're not happy over a LB. Seriously?

They were smart for not overpaying for either Littleton or Schobert. Jacksonville is constantly on the "Loser" list in FA b/c they had to spend so much to land Schobert. But, you're just on board with that move. 

If we got Schobert, we couldn't of got Reader, screw that. Schobert isn't even a great tackler either.

Happy we passed on paying him that much and doing what we did. Build from the trenches out, this is how you win games.

Oh yeah, and tackling.

(03-27-2020, 06:20 PM)McC Wrote: Well said. 

Seems like the Bengals put number on those FA LB's they weren't going to go over and they stuck to it.  There are LB's in the draft and there are also several damn near LB sized S's too.

Lots of good hybrids in this Draft, Chinn, Dugger, Muse to name a few.

(03-27-2020, 06:20 PM)McC Wrote: Well said. 

Seems like the Bengals put number on those FA LB's they weren't going to go over and they stuck to it.  There are LB's in the draft and there are also several damn near LB sized S's too.

Thanks.
I'm glad they didn't overpay for Schobert, and I wanted him here too! Lol

There's still some guys in FA, the Draft, and CFAs and after draft Veteran releases for LB. They'll find 1 or 2 damn it! Lol

Sample may prove to not be a bust but he was a MAJOR reach

(03-27-2020, 08:29 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: Sample may prove to not be a bust but he was a MAJOR reach

Yeah, but this is not a Sample thread so...

(03-27-2020, 06:17 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You just want to keep ignoring the "factual" grades placed upon these players. They need to be graded in some way, not just your opinion.
The facts clearly and factually are that our DB's couldn't tackle anyone last year. So, Dre/Webb/McRae/Dennard couldn't tackle anyone or wasn't available to tackle anyone (Dennard), and the Bengals were bludgeoned on outside runs all season long. Then, on the inside and safety, Brown/Vigil/Williams couldn't tackle anyone either.

So guess what? They have tried to replace them with higher graded tackling players. And they have. And, you don't want to recognize that or give them any credit for it.

There's just some fans who will never be happy. You should be rejoicing right now that the Bengals had a plan and delivered it and paying out $145 Million in the process. This is unprecedented and you're not happy over a LB. Seriously?

They were smart for not overpaying for either Littleton or Schobert. Jacksonville is constantly on the "Loser" list in FA b/c they had to spend so much to land Schobert. But, you're just on board with that move. 

1.) Dennard wasn't a bad tackler at all not sure how you pulled that one out your ass. Kinda of funny for someone to say when they supposedly watched "all the games".
2.) There not going to overpay for a pro bowl LB but yet they were willing to overpay on a average CB and an average safety. Cool story bro
3.) Im not impressed with the money they spent just because they spend it. I want this team to move forward. Not sideways or backwards. 
This team had weaknesses at LB, G, and RT. They haven't fully addressed those needs very well this off-season and that disappointing.

(03-27-2020, 08:44 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Dennard wasn't a bad tackler at all not sure how you pulled that one out your ass. Kinda of funny for someone to say when they supposedly watched "all the games".
2.) There not going to overpay for a pro bowl LB but yet they were willing to overpay on a average CB and an average safety. Cool story bro
3.) Im not impressed with the money they spent just because they spend it. I want this team to move forward. Not sideways or backwards. 
This team had weaknesses at LB, G, and RT. They haven't fully addressed those needs very well this off-season and that disappointing.

I know you are a great poster J24, Dennard is a great tackler, just cannot play on the outside or stay healthy and is not as fast or as
good in coverage as Mackenzie Alexander. Upgrade.

Neither Waynes or Vonn Bell are average = fragrant cow paddies as another poster said the other day lol

Stopping the run and tackling better is a move in the right direction, don't know what you are talking about.

Reader is about the best young run stopping NT in the NFL that can also rush the passer if he is not doubled.

Stopping the run and tackling was the biggest need on Defense I find your post disappointing.

Alright folks! That's enough about Sample in this thread. Go find one about the TEs if that's what you want to debate?

Back to Vonn Bell plz.

(03-27-2020, 08:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know you are a great poster J24, Dennard is a great tackler, just cannot play on the outside or stay healthy and is not as fast or as
good in coverage as Mackenzie Alexander. Upgrade.

Neither Waynes or Vonn Bell are average = fragrant cow paddies as another poster said the other day lol

Stopping the run and tackling better is a move in the right direction, don't know what you are talking about.

Reader is about the best young run stopping NT in the NFL that can also rush the passer if he is not doubled.

Stopping the run and tackling was the biggest need on Defense I find your post disappointing.

1.) Dennard is actually a better player than Alexander but like previous post mentioned by myself the difference is minimal. Alexander isn't a signing I mind at all he is cheap + younger than Dennard. 
2.) I don't want to give the impression that I don't like Wayne's or Bell but I just don't think there that much better than Kirkpatrick or Williams. Also while both are good in run Defense they struggle in pass coverage. Personally I would have rather have given Phillips the starting CB spot that Kirkpatrick had and drafted a safety like Chinn in the draft to replace Williams in the future. To me we overspent on two non essential items when we had capable players at that position.
3.) I like Reader I do but if we're saying don't overspend on LBers then why is it ok to overspend money on a Nose tackle.  

(03-27-2020, 09:16 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Dennard is actually a better player than Alexander but like previous post mentioned by myself the difference is minimal. Alexander isn't a signing I mind at all he is cheap + younger than Dennard. 
2.) I don't want to give the impression that I don't like Wayne's or Bell but I just don't think there that much better than Kirkpatrick or Williams. Also while both are good in run Defense they struggle in pass coverage. Personally I would have rather have given Phillips the starting CB spot that Kirkpatrick had and drafted a safety like Chinn in the draft to replace Williams in the future. To me we overspent on two non essential items when we had capable players at that position.
3.) I like Reader I do but if we're saying don't overspend on LBers then why is it ok to overspend money on a Nose tackle.  

1 - I agree.
2 - I like Phillips for the future and think this was a plan to get him into a starting position slowly. Wayne's contract is front loaded
but it also has an out for us if he doesn't work out and Waynes is just simply young and a much better tackler than Dre. Shawn is 
on the last year of his contract and Vonn Bell is a stud blitzer and tackling beast. I like Shawn as I have said, he has a better nose 
for the ball than Vonn so far in his career but we needed insurance as well as someone to show Bates how to blitz and tackle better.

Bates in the meantime hopefully can teach Bell how to be better in pass coverage. Win win.

3 - Put your money in the trenches man and what better way than Reader? He will help out the LB's and the Draft is coming up to 
add to the position. Schobert was overpaid too and is not a great tackler and does not play in the trenches. We are moving to a 3-4
Hybrid, need to have the NT and Reader is perfect in front of Tupou. Couldn't think of a better fit in this move than Reader.