(03-27-2020, 07:22 PM)samhain Wrote: Where did you hear that?

In the "Bengals in the mix for Trent Williams" thread right below this one from Whodey Hooligan, doesn't know how reliable the
source is, but I have seen a lot of sources this year be correct for once about us. 

(03-27-2020, 05:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I never said that, waiting for an apology Truck.

I said bring in Peters at RT and leave Jonah at LT...

Never meant you, Nate

(03-27-2020, 07:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:

Never meant you, Nate

Cool. Cool.

I would not go higher then a 4th rounder for this guy....he seems like a Cordy Glenn V2 to me....and if we cant get higher picks for Andy Dalton a QB and with no character issue..why a high pick for this guy??

(03-28-2020, 02:40 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I would not go higher then a 4th rounder for this guy....he seems like a Cordy Glenn V2 to me....and if we cant get higher picks for Andy Dalton a QB and with no character issue..why a high pick for this guy??

How far does being a good guy get anybody in the NFL?  The league seems to have spoken on where Dalton stands.  He is now in the being a backup phase of his career. 

(03-28-2020, 02:40 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I would not go higher then a 4th rounder for this guy....he seems like a Cordy Glenn V2 to me....and if we cant get higher picks for Andy Dalton a QB and with no character issue..why a high pick for this guy??

Because he’s one of the best at his position and has gone to the Pro Bowl 7x. A starting LT is worth a hell of a lot more than a backup QB.

(03-26-2020, 06:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Agreed.

If you can afford them, you can sign everyone and play them anywhere...

But then what's the whole point of the draft? Why waste putting the best player at their best position, just to sign someone to move them to a position where they're worse?

The same shit that happened with Whitworth, where everyone and their mother was saying to move Boling and play him at LG, so that Collins or someone else could play, "to have the best 5 OLineman playing at once."

Such stupid logic; why don't you play that other good lineman, at the position you want to move your BEST lineman to, instead of moving the better guy?

Jonah is the best we have right now and for all we know, he's better than Peters RIGHT NOW, so why sign someone and move things around?

Fix in the draft at this point.

We hope Jonah is the best we have. Just like Ogbuehi, Fisher and Price. Except those last three didn’t live up to the expectations. So if the team were to bring in a proven NFL LT it might be in the team’s best interest to move the unproven draft pick to RT which he has experience playing in college. At least until he proves he is better than Ogbuehi, Fisher, or Price.

(03-25-2020, 04:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who do the Jags have on the O-line we could trade Dalton for?

Ogbuehi  ...I know he's in Seattle, but I still thought it was funny.  He could be the next Andre Smith (with less talent) that just keeps coming back.   :paul:

(03-25-2020, 06:24 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I would to, but I'd ask for a 3rd to see if they bite. 

Here is the realistic possibility:  The Jags are not the only team that could use Dalton.  LAC and New England also could.  LA is going to have a tough time selling Tyrod Taylor to their fan base as they enter a new stadium.  Although they are talking a good game, they could still be in play for Dalton and are just seeing what shakes out in the draft.  If the Lions take Tua (they should) and the Dolphins are left with Herbert, then LA may be in need of a QB.  Sure, ideally this would ideally play out before this year's draft for the Bengals and Dalton, but that is very unlikely at this point.

There are still FA signings AFTER the draft, and trades for 2021 draft picks, which would not be all bad for the Bengals.

No one is mentioning the Chargers, but if the top 3 QBs are gone from this year's draft before it gets to them, they could very well be looking for a guy like Dalton.

So could Jax, who picks AFTER the Chargers, if they are unable to get one of the big three in the draft.  Their problem?  If they are all waiting for Dalton to get released, the Chargers get first dibs (of the teams needing a QB) based on their record from last year.

The Jags aren't just competing against the Pats for a released-Dalton (where they get first dibs before NE) but a Chargers team that doesn't get one of the top 3 QBs in the draft.  A very real possibility.  

The Pats don't easily part with draft picks and I don't see any players that would really fit the trade mold that make sense for them.  However, if they are waiting for Dalton to be released, they would be behind the Chargers, Jags, and likely the Colts who may need a longer term plan (and backup) behind Rivers.  

One huge factor about Dalton is his history of being able to digest a new scheme quickly and put it in to action with success.  Not every QB has shown that propensity.  

If I had to bet, the Jags and Chargers are going to sit and wait for a QB in the draft (Jags COULD be very aggressive and trade up for Tua, as they have a real attendance problem) and if they are left empty handed, they could target Dalton.  If the Pats are waiting for Dalton to be released, they are simply not going to get him.  In an organization as historically smart as theirs, I doubt they let that happen.  If they want Dalton, they will have to move before the draft.  I think this is what Cincy is waiting on...and that would sure be taking good care of Dalton.  

(03-27-2020, 06:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't either, feeling more cuts than just Dalton and Kirkpatrick will be coming if we get Trent.

This.  Does anyone know the date after the draft where players have to either be cut or traded before they count against a team's cap?  Right now, I would say with good certainty that before that date...after the draft, however, that both of them won't be on the team.  Shawn Williams being released also makes some sense.  

FWIW, I honestly don't see the Bengals giving up the draft equity that is being bartered around for a FA OT.  I think they are happy with WIlliams at LT, Hart at RT, and Johnson as a backup.  It is the guard position that still has me intrigued about guys like Thuney.

(03-27-2020, 02:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Can't subscribe to that, personally, but I don't know the mentalities and behaviours of the people involved either; guess that would have to factor into a decision like that as well.

I'll take your guys' words for it.

I'm with you on this one, Truck.  Peters may have been a pro bowl LT, but you don't stunt the development of what will hopefully become the next long time pro bowl LT.  Peters is actually a really good fit at RT.  

Tell you what, fellas (haven't seen Bonnie for a while?): If the Bengals are doing what I think they are doing (mentioned about 5 posts ago) with respect to Dalton and Dre, and they end up getting a big name OT as a FA and release a guy like Hart, OR sign a guy like Thuney (although that seems less likely) they will be a serious threat in the AFC North.

Baltimore may be the class of the division because of a very mobile QB, but their defense has some issues. I mean, the Browns pummeled them one game last year with their rushing attack.

There is CLEARLY more going on here than what has already been executed. Maybe they use up those dollars (after Dalton and Dre are gone) to extend AJ Green or Joe Mixon. FWIW, I think Mixon has clearly earned it more than Green.

These are not only unprecedented times, they are exciting as hell. I can't wait for the draft. I simply can't wait. Imagine that COVID-19 subsides (as I believe it will and has elsewhere) by then and our world starts to open up again right after the draft. Man, I'm salivating at the prospect.

(03-30-2020, 10:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  Does anyone know the date after the draft where players have to either be cut or traded before they count against a team's cap?  Right now, I would say with good certainty that before that date...after the draft, however, that both of them won't be on the team.  Shawn Williams being released also makes some sense.  

FWIW, I honestly don't see the Bengals giving up the draft equity that is being bartered around for a FA OT.  I think they are happy with WIlliams at LT, Hart at RT, and Johnson as a backup.  It is the guard position that still has me intrigued about guys like Thuney.

The salary for players with more than 4 accrued years becomes fully guaranteed if they are on the roster the first week of the regular season.  They could technically bring Dre and Dalton into camp and cut them before week 1, but that would be risky as they could get injured and they would not be able to cut them.

(03-30-2020, 10:31 AM)Whatever Wrote: The salary for players with more than 4 accrued years becomes fully guaranteed if they are on the roster the first week of the regular season.  They could technically bring Dre and Dalton into camp and cut them before week 1, but that would be risky as they could get injured and they would not be able to cut them.

Gotcha, and since we don't know (yet) when camp will start...but I would want to move both before that date, and honestly, any potential suitor would want them in camp to get ready as well.  Thanks. 

(03-30-2020, 10:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm with you on this one, Truck.  Peters may have been a pro bowl LT, but you don't stunt the development of what will hopefully become the next long time pro bowl LT.  Peters is actually a really good fit at RT.  

This is why I'd like Peters over Williams and just my opinion. With Peters, you're getting a good vet on a 1 yr contract. He's 38 and I don't see a long term contract coming. This would allow Johnson or another new guy to learn for another year. Maybe Johnson or Hart take a big leap this year, who knows.
With Willams, you're going to have re-do his contract and it won't be cheap. I'm not sure of what injuries he's had, but he sat out last year. Is he even in football shape, is he the same player he was before? Not sure I'd want to pay a guy big money and be stuck with his cap space if he isn't the same guy.

(03-30-2020, 09:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Here is the realistic possibility:  The Jags are not the only team that could use Dalton.  LAC and New England also could.  LA is going to have a tough time selling Tyrod Taylor to their fan base as they enter a new stadium.  Although they are talking a good game, they could still be in play for Dalton and are just seeing what shakes out in the draft.  If the Lions take Tua (they should) and the Dolphins are left with Herbert, then LA may be in need of a QB.  Sure, ideally this would ideally play out before this year's draft for the Bengals and Dalton, but that is very unlikely at this point.

There are still FA signings AFTER the draft, and trades for 2021 draft picks, which would not be all bad for the Bengals.

No one is mentioning the Chargers, but if the top 3 QBs are gone from this year's draft before it gets to them, they could very well be looking for a guy like Dalton.

So could Jax, who picks AFTER the Chargers, if they are unable to get one of the big three in the draft.  Their problem?  If they are all waiting for Dalton to get released, the Chargers get first dibs (of the teams needing a QB) based on their record from last year.

The Jags aren't just competing against the Pats for a released-Dalton (where they get first dibs before NE) but a Chargers team that doesn't get one of the top 3 QBs in the draft.  A very real possibility.  

The Pats don't easily part with draft picks and I don't see any players that would really fit the trade mold that make sense for them.  However, if they are waiting for Dalton to be released, they would be behind the Chargers, Jags, and likely the Colts who may need a longer term plan (and backup) behind Rivers.  

One huge factor about Dalton is his history of being able to digest a new scheme quickly and put it in to action with success.  Not every QB has shown that propensity.  

If I had to bet, the Jags and Chargers are going to sit and wait for a QB in the draft (Jags COULD be very aggressive and trade up for Tua, as they have a real attendance problem) and if they are left empty handed, they could target Dalton.  If the Pats are waiting for Dalton to be released, they are simply not going to get him.  In an organization as historically smart as theirs, I doubt they let that happen.  If they want Dalton, they will have to move before the draft.  I think this is what Cincy is waiting on...and that would sure be taking good care of Dalton.  

A nice analysis, in theory. Except by referring to who gets "first dibs" you seem to imply the waiver wire is in play here? Dalton is a veteran, if he's released he's an unrestricted free agent (waiver system for veterans only comes into effect after the trade deadline) and not subject to waivers. 

But otherwise interesting run down of QB needy teams. Here's how I see it:

Detroit - I really, really don't think they're in the market for a QB. 

Mia - Will come out of this draft with either Tua or Herbert. 

LAC - IF nobody trades ahead of them they would get Herbert, but they know CAR probably wants Tua and they'll have to trade up to ensure they get him. They can't afford to not get one of the top 3. So LAC and Miami will be competing to get into Detroit's spot (Det is really in the premium draft slot this year). So I'm convinced Tua will go at 3 one way or another. Then we'll see if bidding for the 4th pick comes into play. If CAR or Miami come out of this without a QB (I doubt it's Miami as they have the most firepower), don't look for them to trade for Dalton. Bridgewater and Fitzpatrick, respectively, would make him redundant. IF it's LAC, and they don't, say, trade down for Love or just take him in the top 10, we'll see how serious they are about Tyrod Taylor. Maybe they like Jacob Eason. And it would make more sense for them to just sign Cam Newton than trade for Dalton anyway. 

Jags - Drafting a young QB wouldn't make sense for them. I'm sure Gruden wants Dalton, but it's more of a cap issue with them. Do they want him at 17M? Is he willing to regotiate to facilitate a trade? Or is Dalton thinking what everybody else is: "hey, if I refuse to renegotiate they'll release me, and i'll be able to pick a team AND use the market to leverage a good contract." I mean there are lots of things in play here besides what pick(s) they offer us. 

Patriots - Much the same analysis as Jax. But I also think Belichick is more inclined to do something off the wall like draft Jake Fromm in about the third round and go into camp with a competition. Hard to see Belichick blinking in this chicken game we're playing. 

Tennessee, Washington, etc... those ships have sailed. 

Ultimately it seems that NE and Jax are the only viable options. Personally I think we'll wait and see what transpires during the draft, come up empty, and release him shortly thereafter. Like I said, if the trade hinges on Dalton renegotiating, he can easily refuse and force his release. They might be what's been holding things up all along. 

Herm Edwards claims to know Cam Newton will sign with the Chargers.

Andy should do well with Jax... He completed 3 passes to them last season.

(03-30-2020, 10:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tell you what, fellas (haven't seen Bonnie for a while.)

Hi.

I'm still in the thinking that AD will be traded or released after the draft. We cannot afford to have a 17million backup, while were trying to extend guys like Mixon/AJ. To me it hinges on the draft, and what teams like LAC, MIA, JAX, NE, and PIT do. To me those teams are looking to add a QB somewhere before the 3rd rd.

LAC- Tyrod Taylor-Come on!!

PIT- Ben- Getting old an injury riddled

JAX- Minshew - not the answer

NE- ???- who knows

-Miami and one of the above will land TUA and Herbert, the real question is do the other teams covet guys like:

1) Eason
2) Love
3) Fromm
4) Hurts

- IMO, I just see those guys as career backups.