(04-01-2020, 01:00 AM)J24 Wrote: Yeah I know I did that just for fun.  
Jackson is a different type of cat yeah he is a QB  but since he runs so much and gets hit so much it's a fair question to ask will the Ravens commit huge  money to him  for a second contract.
Also look at what the  cowboys are doing with Prescott their not interested in committing to him long term. Same with Kirk Cousins in DC they didn't commit to him and he was putting up impressive numbers there.  

Jerry will cave and pay Dak. Paying Cousins that kind of money was stupid (as was extending him), he’s good, but not great. But that just goes to show how desperate teams are for a good QB. We have the chance at a great one. Trading that away for lottery tickets would be a terrible decision.

(04-01-2020, 01:05 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote:   I'm fine if we take Burrow. No way!!!! I turn down three first round picks for one player. No way! I doubt that MB would either. Enjoy the drama.

Here’s our last 3 1st round picks:

Jonah Williams
Billy Price
John Ross

In what universe would you trade a potential franchise QB prospect like Joe Burrow for those three guys?

(04-01-2020, 01:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here’s our last 3 1st round picks:

Jonah Williams
Billy Price
John Ross

In what universe would you trade a potential franchise QB prospect like Joe Burrow for those three guys?

Jury is out on Williams, the other 2 are lost causes.

But, it isn't those three you'd be getting. Realistically, you're getting Burrow or Herbert, Kenneth Murray LB, and maybe Austin Jackson for the line or Justin Jefferson at WR. Plus, if you get another 2nd rounder or a 1st next year...it is really hard to say no to that package for anyone who has yet to show they can play in the NFL. 

I get it, he is listed as the number 1 QB on the boards, but that doesn't always equal NFL success. 

That being said, I still don't see many places that say the Bengals are listening, more just the Dolphins want him.

(04-01-2020, 12:50 AM)WhoDey Wrote: Pat McAfee was talking to AJ Hawk about it on his show today.

Was it that the Bengals are interested or was the talk that the Dolphins want to do it? Everything I've seen is more along the lines of the Dolphins want to move up, and they may move up so they don't miss on Burrow and Tua which could happen. 

Still not seeing a lot of credible places that say the Bengals are listening.

I ask this question, if the Bengals accepted an offer from the Miami of 3 1sts and 2 2nds this year and a 1st next year for the rights to Burrow, then wouldn't it be better to pass on a QB in the 1st round and fill out the roster needs with upgrades using what would be 6 picks in the first two rounds this year and keeping Dalton behind center? [NOTE: I'm not a fan of taking Tua high in this draft due to the injuries. In fact, I'm against taking injured players high period.]

Surely Dalton under center with a revamped roster would give the team a better chance of winning this year than going with the likes of Herbert? That #5 pick would give the team a top OT or LB Isaiah Simmons or they might be able to trade down a couple of spots and grab WR CeeDee Lamb.

With the #18 pick they could probably grab WR Justin Jefferson (if they didn't take one at #5) or OT or OG or DL or CB (although we have a ton of those) or a S.

With the #26 pick they add another starter to upgrade a weak spot.

Then with their own #33 pick they'd have their choice of 1st round talent that dropped. Add in Miami's #39 and #56 picks possibly take a TE or OG or whoever's at the top their big board. The team could literally upgrade 6 roster spots, all on rookie contracts.

With such a move, Dalton would be playing behind a much upgraded OL, have an abundance of reliable targets (unlike the last season and a half), and the defense would be stacked to the gills. They could even take two WRs early, trade Ross for a bag of peanuts and be set at WR for several years to come.

In addition, Miami will likely have a high pick next season, so even if the Bengals won the SB this year, I'd expect they'd have a top 10 pick from Miami to use to replace a departing free agent or snag a QB next season.

Given the above, I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger and I'm not sure the team could stay under the cap with all those picks and Dalton's contract and wouldn't leave any room to extend Mixon or Jackson and they'd have to extend Dalton for at least through next season. The cap wouldn't work and if the team takes Herbert would he really be an upgrade to Dalton? The trade route has its benefits, but the draft Burrow route would provide your ideal QB for the next 10 or more years and the team would still come out with an upgraded roster for a team on the rise.

I'd go for taking Burrow and the BPA from the team's big board that upgrades a starting spot with the pick at the top of the 2nd round. This is the right move, not matter what someone schooled in theoretical analytics might churn out from their digital assistant, as their digital assistant's results can only be as reliable as the data fed into it, and you can rest assured that if the person feeding in the data doesn't have a thorough grasp of what it takes to win in the NFL then their data will be flawed to that degree. Yeah, I'm making fun of the qualifications analytics people don't have again. Let's not cry in our milk.

And, as an added note, the best case scenario for using all those draft picks is that the Bengals will pick the right guys on all of them and not make any Sample picks. That sounds good in theory, but in practical application we haven't seen them do that in recent years. So that's another reason to stick with the Burrow pick.

(04-01-2020, 02:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Jury is out on Williams, the other 2 are lost causes.

But, it isn't those three you'd be getting. Realistically, you're getting Burrow or Herbert, Kenneth Murray LB, and maybe Austin Jackson for the line or Justin Jefferson at WR. Plus, if you get another 2nd rounder or a 1st next year...it is really hard to say no to that package for anyone who has yet to show they can play in the NFL. 

I get it, he is listed as the number 1 QB on the boards, but that doesn't always equal NFL success. 

That being said, I still don't see many places that say the Bengals are listening, more just the Dolphins want him.

The Bengals have “hit” on one 1st round pick in the last decade. One. AJ. I’m talking absolute home run, Pro Bowl, elite player. So not guys like Zeitler or WJ3.

Based off our draft history in the 1st round I’m not willing to pass on a QB with the potential of Burrow with those kinds of odds. If we were drafting studs left and right every other year in the 1st round I could at least understand the argument, but would still be against it.

I’ve mentioned it before, but we have had at least 3 elite players on the team at once in AJ, Whit, and Geno. We won 0 playoff games with them. What we never had was a great QB. And now the opportunity to grab one is staring us right in the face...

(04-01-2020, 03:11 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Bengals have “hit” on one 1st round pick in the last decade. One. AJ. I’m talking absolute home run, Pro Bowl, elite player. So not guys like Zeitler or WJ3.

Based off our draft history in the 1st round I’m not willing to pass on a QB with the potential of Burrow with those kinds of odds. If we were drafting studs left and right every other year in the 1st round I could at least understand the argument, but would still be against it.

I’ve mentioned it before, but we have had at least 3 elite players on the team at once in AJ, Whit, and Geno. We won 0 playoff games with them. What we never had was a great QB. And now the opportunity to grab one is staring us right in the face...

Potentially great.

There was a list of Heisman winning QBs around here somewhere and it was an ugly list of NFL success. 

Burrow looks like a good prospect, but every year there is a QB that jumps up the boards and is going to set the world on fire, last year it was Kyler Murray and before that Baker Mayfield, and neither of them look to be "elite" QBs. College success doesn't mean NFL success no matter where you played or who you were coached by, proof of that is as simple as looking at Alabama and realizing that they never produce a QB that is NFL caliber. Another reason I wouldn't take Tua....

It's a crap shoot, Burrow may be elite or he may turn out to be just another middle of the pack Andy Dalton like guy. If the offer is high enough, you have to consider it. Missing on one pick even 1st overall is easier to do then missing on 3 picks in the top 32.

Also, this isn't me saying don't take Burrow... this is just me saying if you get offered enough picks in this draft and perhaps the next draft, you have to entertain the offer.

(04-01-2020, 03:29 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Potentially great.

There was a list of Heisman winning QBs around here somewhere and it was an ugly list of NFL success. 

Burrow looks like a good prospect, but every year there is a QB that jumps up the boards and is going to set the world on fire, last year it was Kyler Murray and before that Baker Mayfield, and neither of them look to be "elite" QBs. College success doesn't mean NFL success no matter where you played or who you were coached by, proof of that is as simple as looking at Alabama and realizing that they never produce a QB that is NFL caliber. Another reason I wouldn't take Tua....

It's a crap shoot, Burrow may be elite or he may turn out to be just another middle of the pack Andy Dalton like guy. If the offer is high enough, you have to consider it. Missing on one pick even 1st overall is easier to do then missing on 3 picks in the top 32.

Not every Heisman winning QB accomplished what Burrow did though. In fact, none did. He pretty much had the best season we’ve ever seen. It wasn’t a typical Heisman season. The one question nobody in the pro-trade camp ever seems to be able to answer is if another team thinks Burrow is worth giving up such a haul for why in the world would WE give him up?

As for the bold, even if you hit on your picks, who do you think the Browns would rather have? All 3 from the first column, or one from the second?

Miles Garrett
Jabrill Peppers
David Njoku

Patrick Mahomes
Deshaun Watson

My dad use to say 'wish in one hand and shit in the other and tell me which one fills up faster'.

Well Miami?

im sitting here trying my best to remember anytime the bengals have ever traded down to aquire picks. i cant, im not remembering a single time in all my years watching this team. now maybe they have and i dont remember but chances of them doing that are slim to none in my opinion. its just not how they draft.

(04-01-2020, 05:38 AM)Attackcat Wrote: im sitting here trying my best to remember anytime the bengals have ever traded down to aquire picks. i cant, im not remembering a single time in all my years watching this team. now maybe they have and i dont remember but chances of them doing that are slim to none in my opinion. its just not how they draft.

They moved back to get Zeitler. 

Sure the Dolphins and plenty of other teams would trade to get Burrow. How much they are willing to give up and what the Bengals would have to have to give him up is likely extremely far apart. Bunch of off season talk.

If we’re smart we consider it. Think of it this way. Most consider tua and burrow same talent wise(I think tua is way ahead of burrow but that’s not the discussion here). If bengals believe the same that they are equal and believe they will definitely get tua at 5, why would they not trade down?

(04-01-2020, 07:37 AM)Jpoore Wrote: If we’re smart we consider it. Think of it this way. Most consider tua and burrow same talent wise(I think tua is way ahead of burrow but that’s not the discussion here). If bengals believe the same that they are equal and believe they will definitely get tua at 5, why would they not trade down?

Because we live in the real world in which Tua has had surgeries on both ankles, and his hip.

Think of it this way, if Miami believes Tua and Burrow are the same talent-wise why in the world would they give up so much to ensure they get Burrow when Tua might be there at 5?

From all the comments supporting the possibility, remember what MB said just a few months ago, “The Bengals don’t feel it’s their job to make other teams better!” Knowing that, they are not trading the #1 pick and Burrow will be a Bengal.

If the Bengals have decided Burrow is their guy, they won't trade the pick regardless.

(03-31-2020, 09:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: These rumors that Miami is dead set on trading up for the 1st pick just keep picking up more and more steam. There’s absolutely no way we would be that stupid, right? Right??

I’m getting a little worried, ngl...

I think Miami is in a tough spot...Looking back, I wonder how many of their fans were praying they would lose that game against the Bengals. If they stay put, I think they lose Tua.  Both Detroit and the Giants are definite trade partners for the right deal.  San Diego could jump them.  So could Carolina.  I could see a scenario where Detroit drafts Tua themselves.  I would.  And the Giants, if Detroit doesn't select him could certainly trade back and get a different OT.  

I think the question is not if they will give everything to the Bengals, but what are they willing to give to make sure they get Tua.  
Hell, even Jacksonville could try to leap them.  They need every bit of help they can get to sell tickets. 

Personally, I would like to see him go to Detroit.  I kind of root for those guys as they have suffered longer than even Bengal fans.  

(04-01-2020, 09:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Miami is in a tough spot...Looking back, I wonder how many of their fans were praying they would lose that game against the Bengals. If they stay put, I think they lose Tua.  Both Detroit and the Giants are definite trade partners for the right deal.  San Diego could jump them.  So could Carolina.  I could see a scenario where Detroit drafts Tua themselves.  I would.  And the Giants, if Detroit doesn't select him could certainly trade back and get a different OT.  

I think the question is not if they will give everything to the Bengals, but what are they willing to give to make sure they get Tua.  
Hell, even Jacksonville could try to leap them.  They need every bit of help they can get to sell tickets. 

Personally, I would like to see him go to Detroit.  I kind of root for those guys as they have suffered longer than even Bengal fans.  

I agree with you on Miami being in a tough spot. They've already started their window with all the free agents they've signed. 

Sidebar - if they lose out on Tua, I could see them punting on a few picks and trading them away for picks in next year's draft. They'd have to hope like hell that a team with an established QB gets the #1 pick in 2021.

The only way I would support the Bengals trading the pick, is if they got 3 1st rd. picks and 2 2nd rd. picks to fill all our glaring holes, then lose every game this year on purpose so they can then draft the hippie from Clemson. But I'd still want BDJ....

How many times have we had multiple pro bowlers on this team, but were let down by our QB play when it mattered most? Even if you could promise me that we’d turn all 3 of Miami’s picks into perennial Pro Bowl level players, I think I’d still take Joe Burrow. The positions I’ve seen thrown out that we’d try to take with Miami’s picks are OL, WR, and LB. Didn’t we have Andrew Whitworth, AJ Green, and Vontaze Burfict on this team at the same time? And those teams had plenty of other talented players as well on both sides of the ball. Those guys never got us to where we wanted to be because, as much as I like Andy Dalton, our QB failed us at the most important times.

We have a chance to take a potentially great QB. If Joe Burrow was not in this draft class, then sure, let’s trade down and take our chances elsewhere. If Joe Burrow was not in this draft class though, no one would want to trade, they’d also take their chances elsewhere. This isn’t a normal QB coming out. He had the statistically best season a QB has ever had in college, with the tape to back it up. This wasn’t a Boise State or Hawaii QB tearing up the Mountain West either.

Could Joe Burrow be a terrible pick? Yes he could. But in terms of QBs coming out of college, he has potentially the best chance of anyone ever to be an all time great NFL QB. I would much rather take a chance on that, and miss, than end up with 3 potentially good players at any other position.