Was the line asked to do things that didn’t fit them well because of the backers? I’m curious how the personnel change with the whole D will allow schemes to play more to certain guys strengths. Just resting Geno a little more should be an easy way of helping with his play.

(04-10-2020, 06:40 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Was the line asked to do things that didn’t fit them well because of the backers? I’m curious how the personnel change with the whole D will allow schemes to play more to certain guys strengths. Just resting Geno a little more should be an easy way of helping with his play.

I think you're right on. This guy isn't getting it done so that guy has to help but in order to do that he has to let this go and then another guy has to help do his job and it quickly snowballs out of control.

And i agree I'd love to see Geno's snaps reduced like 1/4 or a bit more this season.

(04-10-2020, 04:04 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: If Epensa drops to #33, would anyone support drafting him? Would he mae our Dline that much more imposing?

Yes- we have bigger needs but one injury could put us begging for a good DE. He could be a Carlos Dunlap type value in the 2nd round. I’d take him all day.

To the idea that our dline has disappointed in recent years, I agree. I will say that it’s hard to get sacks when your LB’s always allow RB’s/TE’s to be open the whole play as check down options. Games are won in the trenches but it’s hard to win in the trenches if your back 7 is a sieve. If we can get one legit LB in the draft with coverage ability and our secondary meshes well we should be ok. If not, our line could continue to disappoint

(04-10-2020, 02:54 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I expect a lot from Geno.  He ought to see far more favorable match ups when DJ is on his side.  

Not sure about Geno. He really hasn't been much of a force the last couple years. They need him to be better.

(04-10-2020, 06:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think you're right on. This guy isn't getting it done so that guy has to help but in order to do that he has to let this go and then another guy has to help do his job and it quickly snowballs out of control.

And i agree I'd love to see Geno's snaps reduced like 1/4 or a bit more this season.

That’s what I’m thinking. The improved talent will let responsibility’s be distributed better.

(04-10-2020, 08:33 PM)Mobster Wrote: Not sure about Geno. He really hasn't been much of a force the last couple years. They need him to be better.

He had a disappointing season last year( more so a disappointing second half) but the prior 4 seasons dude was a beast he had 39 Sacks those 4 seasons with 53 TFLs.
He spoiled us over his career.

It would appear Geno for the Bengals isn't a whole lot different to Joey Votto for the Reds..Played great on some not so great teams and now hopes to rebound like a swan song before retirement.. I hope I'm wrong, but the two do seem to be following similar paths.

I think the D-line was slightly overrated by some fans. I think we’re in a transition of getting younger and more talented up front. Dunlap and Atkins aren’t the same players they used to be ,there getting older and played a ton of snaps last season. We don’t really have a true 3 technique backup to give Atkins some reps off. Billings was a decent NT but the fact that some draft experts said he was supposed to get drafted in the 1st round made some think he was better than how he played. We didn’t have much depth at DE because Wynn got hurt and Lawson is limited because he’s basically a pass rush specialist and we can’t stop the run. At DT Glasgow got hurt , Tupo is ok and Wren is a project. Adding a young, talented 25 year old like Reader on the D-line will make a big impact paired with a young Sam Hubbard who is on the rise. Feel like we need to still draft a talented d-lineman upfront In the upcoming draft if the value is there.

(04-11-2020, 12:41 AM)grampahol Wrote: It would appear Geno for the Bengals isn't a whole lot different to Joey Votto for the Reds..Played great on some not so great teams and now hopes to rebound like a swan song before retirement.. I hope I'm wrong, but the two do seem to be following similar paths.

I have more faith in Geno between the 2. Geno’s strength will be around for awhile. The big Votto weakness seems to be between his ears.

(04-10-2020, 01:10 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I'm kind of over Tupou. Sure he is hard to move out of the middle, but he he gets stuck there. No penetration. I remember in a game last season him getting knocked down and he looked like turtle unable to turnover and get up. To sum it up, not vary athletic. 

 .  I don't remember the turtle game, but at one time or another a lot of Bengals have looked pretty sorry.  I remember a game when I still had season tickets where MJ tried a spin move.  He literally just spun in place and fell down.  It was one of the funniest looking things I have ever seen.  Even the OT I think laughed at him.  Still, Tupou is a 4th year player and maybe his light is starting to come on.  I look at the defensive line like most team do at CB:  You can't have enough big men to clog the middle.  

Here is a  good article about Tupou last year and if memory serves the Raiders are supposed to have a solid offensive line. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/20/20972580/bengals-weekly-lineman-josh-tupou-solidified-his-development-in-oakland

(04-10-2020, 03:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Reader's biggest contribution will be in the run game.
I think we see our run game jump at least to the 20-25 range, which would be a big improvement from last place.
I'm excited to see Reader clog the middle with Dunlap, Atkins, Hubbard, and Lawson all rushing the passer, but don't expect Reader to get a bunch of sacks himself. He's never had more than 2.5 sacks in a season.

If the Bengals can land an impact defensive player or two in the draft, this defense really could be in the top half in the league. If they don't, I still see the middle of the field being exposed.

He's so much more than just a run stuffer.  He only had 2.5 sacks last year, but he also had 6 TFL and 13 QB hits.  In other words, the dude flat out get's penetration beyond the LOS.  That penetration and ability to blow up a pocket from the inside is what will benefit the rest of our pass rushers.  I could truly see guys like Carlos, Geno and Sam treating Reader to a few steak dinners, following some multi sack games.

(04-11-2020, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He's so much more than just a run stuffer.  He only had 2.5 sacks last year, but he also had 6 TFL and 13 QB hits.  In other words, the dude flat out get's penetration beyond the LOS.  That penetration and ability to blow up a pocket from the inside is what will benefit the rest of our pass rushers.  I could truly see guys like Carlos, Geno and Sam treating Reader to a few steak dinners, following some multi sack games.

And the thing QB's despise above all else is pressure up the middle. It just disrupts the timing of everything.

(04-11-2020, 09:54 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And the thing QB's despise above all else is pressure up the middle. It just disrupts the timing of everything.

Yep, just ask Andy..  


What, too soon?  

I think the better offense the Bengals put on the field
The better the dine will perform. If your offense
Can't sustain drives and put up TDS it's a long day for the dline
In general. Once a offense gets up 10 points up a defense
Then it becomes ball control with the run game
And short controlled passing game with underneath stuff
I think a fresh Geno Atkins in the 4th q. Is a huge factor
I imagine a steady rotation Atkins Reader possibly Wren and
Brown and Glasgow.
But if this offense can create some 4th leads
I expect the dline to play at a high level

(04-11-2020, 10:03 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, just ask Andy..  


What, too soon?  

And Tom Brady...

(04-10-2020, 06:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s by far our best position group on paper. Let’s hope it all comes together on the field.

This yr for me will be the litmus test for Geno to prove that he still has gas in the tank. He will now have a legit force lined up next to him with Reader and will likely be rotating more. The DL is my favorite position group in NFL and I really want to see some respect restored.     

(04-10-2020, 08:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Our Dline by and large over the last couple seasons hasn't really been the force we all (me anyways) thought it could be. Carlos came on the 2nd half of last season, Hubbard has had some good games. But there's been many games we've just not had the pressure we need and you know the run D, oh boy !

Reader just may be the final piece that pushes us to the place I'd like to see ? And it helps the DB's tremendously. If Geno can have a bit of a bounce back playing beside Reader ? Carlos and Hubbard on the ends, Lawson, if he can stay on the field ? Glasgow was flashing before injuries.

We just might have a Dline teams just dread playing ?

https://twitter.com/Bengals/status/1248321027198701569?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Reader was who I hoped Billings would become next to Geno. This one pick could be the one that makes our Defense 
dominant as long as the coaching of Lou comes around. Reader sure will help out Lou and the coaches and everyone on
Defense. The trenches are where games are won and this guy could be the best at his position in the NFL. He can stop 
the run and he has a pass rush. You cannot double both Reader and Geno, someone will be freed up with a 1 on 1.

(04-11-2020, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He's so much more than just a run stuffer.  He only had 2.5 sacks last year, but he also had 6 TFL and 13 QB hits.  In other words, the dude flat out get's penetration beyond the LOS.  That penetration and ability to blow up a pocket from the inside is what will benefit the rest of our pass rushers.  I could truly see guys like Carlos, Geno and Sam treating Reader to a few steak dinners, following some multi sack games.

TFL is still part of the run game.
And the QB hits are good, but 13 might be an outlier.
For 2016-2018, he only had 11 QB hits total.
It may not be realistic to see Reader get 10+ QB hits every year.

(04-10-2020, 01:10 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I'm kind of over Tupou. Sure he is hard to move out of the middle, but he he gets stuck there. No penetration. I remember in a game last season him getting knocked down and he looked like turtle unable to turnover and get up. To sum it up, not vary athletic. 

Here come the Peko criticisms again..... He's not supposed to penetrate, he's supposed to fill the lane and stop the run. Topou has played well.

(04-12-2020, 08:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: TFL is still part of the run game.
And the QB hits are good, but 13 might be an outlier.
For 2016-2018, he only had 11 QB hits total.
It may not be realistic to see Reader get 10+ QB hits every year.

Something the analytics people push hard is that a TFL is as good as a sack. I know this wasn't really in context of your post but figured like a good place to plug this in. Fans and even some football people get too infatuated with sacks however if I told you on 2nd down it was 2nd and 13 without telling you what happened you'd say it was a big, and positive play, the fact it happened because you stuffed the run or hit the QB really does not matter.

Again, not your point but worth noting here.