(04-15-2020, 01:12 PM)jj22 Wrote: With the 2nd round the sweet spot for runningbacks for the Bengals, and Mixon in his final year. RB is not out of the question if we trade back from 33.

Clyde Hellaire is Daniel Jeremiah's #32 rated player in the draft. Chris Simms has him as his best RB of all of them. 
Joe Burrow has been interviewed and said he's the best player he's ever played with.....and he's played with a lot of great players in his 5 years at OSU and LSU. 
If I'm the Bengals FO, I don't even trade down and take him. 
I just take him at #33 and make Joe Burrow a very happy #1 pick! 

It also gives them leverage if Mixon and his agent do want to play games with holding out, etc....

(04-15-2020, 11:56 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'd offer him a 3 year extension worth 30 million in new money (that's 31.2 million over 4 years, AAV of 7.8 million) with a signing bonus of 15 million dollars spread out across the length of the extension. His cap hit would remain the same in 2020, but he'd have 15 million more dollars in his pocket right now with 15 million more to come from 2021 to 2023.

If that isn't enough for him, I say let him hold out. You really can't commit more than 8 million AAV to a running back in this league anymore. It's just too much.

Agreed.

I'd even go as far as 11-12 mil, just in case.

It 100% rings true for RBs in today's game, but Mixon is clearly a special talent. And he loves the city. And he's (though iffy on this now) a team player.

The bengals draft a RB in the second round. He was a top round 1 guy with character concerns. He has lived up to being a top round 1 guy and shown no signs of character concerns. Now he wants paid, I don’t see a problem
Here. Why even draft players if you have no plan to re-sign them a 2nd contract?

Mixon is more important to this offense then AJ Green, in my opinion. Plus he is only 23, so a 3-4 extension only puts him at 27-28.

It wouldn't kill me if Mixon sits out and the Bengals draft an RB. There should be some quality picks in rounds 2-3.

Yeah, Mixon grinds out the yards but, at 4.2 career yds/att, he doesn't even rank in the top 20 for the last two years (15th of 15 RBs with over 1,000 yards last season). Not to mention his lack of receiving yards.

He's not exactly a Super Star.

(04-15-2020, 02:08 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: It wouldn't kill me if Mixon sits out and the Bengals draft an RB. There should be some quality picks in rounds 2-3.

Yeah, Mixon grinds out the yards but, at 4.2 career yds/att, he doesn't even rank in the top 20 for the last two years (15th of 15 RBs with over 1,000 yards last season). Not to mention his lack of receiving yards.

He's not exactly a Super Star.

If he is actually doing this, it hardly seems like a good time to be a selfish *****.

(04-15-2020, 01:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Agreed.

I'd even go as far as 11-12 mil, just in case.

It 100% rings true for RBs in today's game, but Mixon is clearly a special talent. And he loves the city. And he's (though iffy on this now) a team player.

I don't think the guy isn't a team player.  This is business.  He has a limited window to get whatever he can.  I'm sure his teammates understand that.

That's stupid money for him, though.  $9 mil a year would put him well into the top 5 at his position.  $6 mil would put him in the top 10.  Fact is, he wasn't impressive as a rookie in PA's scheme and he sucked last year until they completely changed the blocking scheme during the bye.  That indicates that he's a scheme dependant RB, not a guy you can plug and play in any offense.  That isn't worth Top 5 money.  If we go 2-14, fire Zac, and bring in a new staff with new schemes, will he be right back to a 3 ypc back?

I don't have a problem paying the man fair market value for his position, which for a RB of his caliber is in the $6-8 mil per year range.  I would not be willing to cave to something more than that based on the "RB's are underpaid" narrative.  

It shocks me when guys and their agents decide that this sort of a stunt is a good way to negotiate a raise. There isn't an owner in the league that wants to create a culture of caving to holdouts at the end of rookie deals. Could you imagine if all of the good players in the league decided to hold out on the least year of their deal? I get that the rookie wage scale isn't perfect and some overachievers are exposed to risk if they get hurt right before their first big payday. I just don't get the sense of making a scene about it when every player in the league has to abide by the same rules of the same CBA. 

(04-15-2020, 02:25 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think the guy isn't a team player.  This is business.  He has a limited window to get whatever he can.  I'm sure his teammates understand that.

That's stupid money for him, though.  $9 mil a year would put him well into the top 5 at his position.  $6 mil would put him in the top 10.  Fact is, he wasn't impressive as a rookie in PA's scheme and he sucked last year until they completely changed the blocking scheme during the bye.  That indicates that he's a scheme dependant RB, not a guy you can plug and play in any offense.  That isn't worth Top 5 money.  If we go 2-14, fire Zac, and bring in a new staff with new schemes, will he be right back to a 3 ypc back?

I don't have a problem paying the man fair market value for his position, which for a RB of his caliber is in the $6-8 mil per year range.  I would not be willing to cave to something more than that based on the "RB's are underpaid" narrative.  

He’s making $1.2 mil this year and would get $12.5-13 mil next year on the franchise tag? Worst case scenario we/he should be able to add those two numbers up and divide by two on a one year extension to keep him playing. He doesn’t have much leverage past that. This would give him more money today so that’s reason enough to sign. If he sits out he loses value

(04-15-2020, 01:32 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Wrong. Many rbs and QBs get to college and are moved to a new position day 1. They play that position bc they are the best athlete in their hs but aren't suited to be the guy in college so they move to lb, de, safety, wr, db, etc

No, I'm right. 

(04-15-2020, 01:00 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: None of those guys are playing at the next level. They’re moving so as to hopefully see some PT. My point was that the elite athletes may shy away from playing RB earlier in their careers to focus on playing more lucrative positions in the league. 5th year seniors moving from TE to LB aren’t germane to this discussion.

I agree with this.  Those guys are getting an opportunity to get more PT where the team needs experienced talent, as they weren't going to get it at the position they had been previously playing.

(04-15-2020, 01:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only if you are very lucky.  Over the last 10 years there have been 164 RBs taken in the third day of the draft.  Only 6 of them have rushed for as many yards as Mixon has.


Good RBs are not as easy to replace as many people claim. 

I also agree with this.  Some teams might be good at finding that late talent to just plug into their RB friendly system, like Denver did for a number of years, but that is the exception rather than the rule.



As to the OP?  I think Mixon is right to be asking the team for an extension, but threatening a hold out just appears selfish in this day and age.

Last season the highest paid running backs in the nfl were Zeke Elliott, Le’Veon Bell, David Johnson, Melvin Gordon, Saquon Barkley and Leonard Fournette. Woof.

Because I live an hour from Jax, I know the Jags well. So let's extract Fournette from that group for further analysis.

The other running backs drafted in the class that went after Fournette were Dalvin Cook, C McCaffrey, our very own Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Marlon Mack, Jamaal Williams, James Conner, Matt Breida and Aaron Jones. All are either more or just as productive as Fournette and most were taken much later in the draft. Point is, there isn't much difference from any of these guys, other than what they make and when they were drafted.

(04-15-2020, 11:07 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Wants a LTC now. Do you pay him? I don’t. Not unless it’s a very friendly deal. Running backs are fungible commodities. I really like Joe, but he’s replaceable. This is per Paul Dehner.

I think Mixon will be extended and will become an even larger focal point of the offense....as a receiver.  

Run CMC just got a huge deal, but is roughly 40% more productive in terms of all-purpose yards than Joe.  Give Joe 60% of CMC's contract?  If only it was that easy.  Joe was given an opportunity here with a fairly high draft selection (and salary) after his issue in college.  Since then, it has worked out pretty well for both parties.  If Mixon doesn't have to come off the field any longer so Gio can go in to pick up blitzers (dumb), they can use his outstanding ability as a receiver.  Gio as well.  

I think Joe is a guy that really wants to win and has a lot of energy.  I want guys like that on my team.  He should get extended.  

Pay the man.

(04-15-2020, 03:27 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The other running backs drafted in the class that went after Fournette were Dalvin Cook, C McCaffrey, our very own Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Marlon Mack, Jamaal Williams, James Conner, Matt Breida and Aaron Jones. All are either more or just as productive as Fournette and most were taken much later in the draft. Point is, there isn't much difference from any of these guys, other than what they make and when they were drafted.

You lost me.

You are saying there isn't much difference between Jamaal Williams and Christian McCaffrey?

(04-15-2020, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You lost me.

You are saying there isn't much difference between Jamaal Williams and Christian McCaffrey?

McCaffrey is an outlier.  

Even so, they will never get their money's worth out of him.

Although, I should add that he does do the work of three guys, so in that light, maybe he is worth it. But few RBs stand up to that workload for long.

Personally, I am not impressed so far with the self proclaimed geniuses running the show in Carolina.

(04-15-2020, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You lost me.

You are saying there isn't much difference between Jamaal Williams and Christian McCaffrey?

(04-15-2020, 03:52 PM)McC Wrote: McCaffrey is an outlier.  

You don't see any difference between Williams and Mixon?

(04-15-2020, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't see any difference between Williams and Mixon?

I didn't say anything about Williams.  I just find it odd that McCaffery was included in your silly comparison.  Is Williams gonna hold out while he's still under contract?

Mixon is a good NFL RB.  No more, no less.  Is he all world like McCaffery?  If he thinks McCaffery's number should have anything to do with what he is worth, he is truly delusional.

Fine him the most you possibly can, suspend him for conduct detrimental, and draft his replacement, and let him sit on the gameday inactive roster all year when he does return.

RBs are simply too replaceable to deal with BS from them. I was already on board with drafting a replacement for Mixon in 2021 and letting him walk in FA because you shouldn't pay RBs. This just moves that plan forward a year.


He can play a year for the Bengals, or he can sit for a year and see if he fares better than Le'Veon Bell did with a year off football. A RB isn't the position you should be caving towards with demands. Doubly so when AJ Green is already unhappy with his franchise tag and lack of long-term deal. If they cave to Mixon, then they'll have to cave to AJ. Then does WJ3 get upset that he's not getting paid? Then does Burrow get upset 3 years in when he doesn't get an extension? It's just a bad policy to start, even worse when it's a RB, and even more worse when it's a non-Pro Bowler/non-All-Pro player. At least when the Jets did the holdout-every-two-years dance with Revis, he was a HoF talent.

If Mixon holds out, here are the FA RBs still available. Some are recent 1000+ yard guys.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/running-back/available/

Even hinting at a holdout vs Mike Brown seems like suicide. MB can't pay him now or else every other player is going to threaten to hold out for a big payday.