(04-24-2020, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure he is.  College OTs play OG in the NFL all the time.  Some draft analysts even mentioned Jones moving to OG in the NFL.

Whitworth was originally drafted to replace Steinbach at OG.

While I agree with college OTs playing G, Whitworth was NOT drafted to replace Steinbach; Steinbach was on the team still, Whitworth was drafted to take over from Levi and Marvin flat out said numerous times, that Whitworth was drafted to play LT and LT only; he only played at LG in an effort to get the best 5 Olineman on the team, period.

I believe the quote from Marv in 2009 was, "so long as he's on my team, Andrew Whitworth is playing Left Tackle for us."

Something like that.

(04-24-2020, 10:56 AM)shanebo Wrote: I'd take Baun over Jones, but truthfully I think both are developmental, boom or bust players. I see a lot of Ogbuehi in Jones, and Baun seems to have to same skill set as Lawson. And as others have said, the opinions on Jones vary widely -- e.g., NFL.com has him in the 50s.

At this point, I'd prefer to go with someone safer. McKinney would be my pick. I think he can do it all -- FS, SS, slot corner, cut Williams and pair him with Bell and you have a very solid defensive backfield.

After McKinney, I'd probably go Baun or Gross-Matos, who I think will be a solid, if not spectacular, NFL player, like a Justin Smith.

Then I'd probably go CB, Diggs or Johnson, then WR, Higgins or Pittman. I don't like Mims.

Most interesting scenario is if they're convinced that Mixon will hold out, or they don't want to pay him $10 mil+ per year, they have Swift, Taylor, and Dobbins just sitting there. I'd be fine with any of those guys.

I’m with you here. I’d just add Epenesa to your DE list of takers. If we don’t go Baun or Epenesa, then I’d like McKinney and or Winfield Jr, and then after that I’d be looking at WRs, either Claypool or Pittman.

The RB situation is very intriguing. I am not opposed to taking Dobbins or Swift if Mixon doesn’t want to pull his head out of his arse.

(04-24-2020, 10:31 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: really?? can you show some tape playing right tackle.. i thought he only played left tackle in college

If you think a guy has to have played the other tackle position to play that position you’re living in 1980. There is no defined “run specialist” and “pass protector” anymore in the NFL. We are in a zone blocking scheme now so it’s even less important as he is going to be moving more than drive blocking.

(04-24-2020, 10:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all arguing based on stuff you just make up in your head is not very effective.

XSF played because of injury.  Hart would do the same if he was a back up with the Cowboys.

The point was I don’t think Hart would even be on the Cowboys in the first place. Hence he wouldn’t be able to start a game for them.

(04-24-2020, 10:56 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Why is everyone talking about Jones?  Why not Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State?  According to ESPN, he’s higher a higher rated OT than Jones is.

He was the most athletic of the OTs, which everyone loved, but has serious strength deficiencies and played at a lower level competition.  He needs at least a year of strength training before he is a starting OT in the NFL but has great potential.  If they are going to go offensive line, it would be Jones, but I don't want a guy at #33 that MIGHT be an upgrade at RG.  

There are lots more OGs and LBs in the draft without the tremendous dropoff you see at WR after Mims, HIggins, and Claypool.  There will be no WR in Rd 3 that can do it all and has #1 WR potential that I can see.  I know the Bengals like Bryan Edwards so maybe him, but I would much rather get Mims now, Willie Gay in Rd 3, and Damien Lewis in Rd 4.  

(04-24-2020, 11:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He was the most athletic of the OTs, which everyone loved, but has serious strength deficiencies and played at a lower level competition.  He needs at least a year of strength training before he is a starting OT in the NFL but has great potential.  If they are going to go offensive line, it would be Jones, but I don't want a guy at #33 that MIGHT be an upgrade at RG.  

There are lots more OGs and LBs in the draft without the tremendous dropoff you see at WR after Mims, HIggins, and Claypool.  There will be no WR in Rd 3 that can do it all and has #1 WR potential that I can see.  I know the Bengals like Bryan Edwards so maybe him, but I would much rather get Mims now, Willie Gay in Rd 3, and Damien Lewis in Rd 4.  

You keep saying there’s a “tremendous drop-off” after those guys, but what about Pittman?

(04-24-2020, 11:11 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep saying there’s a “tremendous drop-off” after those guys, but what about Pittman?

Yes, Pittman is another good choice.  I like him.  I would put him after Mims and Claypool, about even with Higgins, but do you think ANY of them will be there in Rd 3?  

Yet, look at the LB and G talent that WILL be there.  Huge difference.

(04-24-2020, 11:05 AM)Au165 Wrote: If you think a guy has to have played the other tackle position to play that position you’re  living in 1980. There is no defined “run specialist” and “pass protector” anymore in the NFL. We are in a zone blocking scheme now so it’s even less important as he is going to be moving more than drive blocking.

Truth.

Even Interior guys have to be solid in pass pro in todays NFL because defenses like to kick guys inside or move them to stack linebacker to attack the A and B gaps. 

(04-24-2020, 11:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The point was I don’t think Hart would even be on the Cowboys in the first place. Hence he wouldn’t be able to start a game for them.

Hart's arrow has been pointing up, but it was starting at a pretty low point.  I think Johnson either steals his job at RT or we get Hart to take another step and become an above average RT.  He is still just 25 years old, and I have been pointing out for a while now that Whit didn't start at tackle until he was 27.  It wasn't like he has ever had a great guard next to him or a very mobile QB, either.  

Both of those things would appear to have been upgraded with XSF (or Lewis in Rd 4) and Burrow. 

(04-24-2020, 11:14 AM)Synric Wrote: Truth.

Even Interior guys have to be solid in pass pro in todays NFL because defenses like to kick guys inside or move them to stack linebacker to attack the A and B gaps. 

Jones got reps at RG at the Senior Bowl, kind of interesting...

(04-24-2020, 11:02 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: While I agree with college OTs playing G, Whitworth was NOT drafted to replace Steinbach; Steinbach was on the team still, Whitworth was drafted to take over from Levi and Marvin flat out said numerous times, that Whitworth was drafted to play LT and LT only; he only played at LG in an effort to get the best 5 Olineman on the team, period.

I believe the quote from Marv in 2009 was, "so long as he's on my team, Andrew Whitworth is playing Left Tackle for us."

Something like that.

All five of the starting offensive linemen for the Bengals were set to become free agents in '05 and '06.  Everyone knew we could not re-sign them all.  Everyone got a new contract (Braham '05, Williams '06, Jones '06, Anderson '06) except Steinbach.  He was still on the team in '06 but it was clear it was probably his last season here.

(04-24-2020, 11:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Hart's arrow has been pointing up, but it was starting at a pretty low point.  I think Johnson either steals his job at RT or we get Hart to take another step and become an above average RT.  He is still just 25 years old, and I have been pointing out for a while now that Whit didn't start at tackle until he was 27.  It wasn't like he has ever had a great guard next to him or a very mobile QB, either.  

Both of those things would appear to have been upgraded with XSF (or Lewis in Rd 4) and Burrow. 

This is a good point.  Hart is 25.  Josh Jones will be 23 when this season starts.  Fred Johnson is actually two weeks younger than Jones.

(04-24-2020, 11:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All five of the starting offensive linemen for the Bengals were set to become free agents in '05 and '06.  Everyone knew we could not re-sign them all.  Everyone got a new contract (Braham '05, Williams '06, Jones '06, Anderson '06) except Steinbach.  He was still on the team in '06 but it was clear it was probably his last season here.

Absolutely. I believe Andrews was drafted to play G though and when Willie went down, he went to RT.

The internal line was weird there for a few years, save for Bobbie.

(04-24-2020, 11:17 AM)Au165 Wrote: Jones got reps at RG at the Senior Bowl, kind of interesting...

A lot of people are not as high on a guy like Damien Lewis as I am, but I honestly don't see a big difference between him and Jones and Lewis did it at a far superior level of competition.  

Would you want to spend #33 overall on a RG?  There is a lot of difference of opinion on Jones, and that scares me a bit.  His level of competition was pathetic.  Their toughest opponent was Oklahoma (the rest sucked) and Oklahoma doesn't have any high draft picks coming out of that defensive end roster.  Why take him when there is potentially first round talent available?  Mims was referred to as first round talent by many after the Senior Bowl, and I still can't believe I am the only one that thinks Claypool is a first round talent.  I seem to be on an island on that one.  

After Mims, Claypool, Higgins, and Pittman, I see a substantial dropoff at WR talent.  I don't think any of those guys are available in Rd 3.  Yet I see lots of talent at LB that could start in our nickel package immediately.  And there is guard talent that could compete at RG to be had in Rd 4.

(04-24-2020, 11:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The point was I don’t think Hart would even be on the Cowboys in the first place. Hence he wouldn’t be able to start a game for them.

No offense Nico, but basing arguments on stuff you just make up out of thin air is not very persuasive.

I honestly don't see how the Bengals do not take that Wiscy Polar Bear LB Zack Baun at 33. Dude is a beast.

The Bengals currently have one freaking Linebacker right now. How is there even a discussion here?

That said, I would not be entirely pi$$ed if they picked up OT Jones out of Houston.

After spending all night reading up on a Josh Jones he’s got to be the pick. Has great tape , measurement s are fine , arm length is good not like Lapham says , pFF graded him as the top tackle , and most importantly in the senior bowl week he dominated against other top seniors . Every Bengals we drafted that did well at senior bowl are studs. Chad Johnson , Atkins n Whitworth. At first seeing his build I though he was like ogbuehi but he isn’t at all.

(04-24-2020, 11:17 AM)Au165 Wrote: Jones got reps at RG at the Senior Bowl, kind of interesting...

I watched Houston alot more than I normally would this past season because Holgorsen took over after leaving WVU and Jones stands out. 

He didnt play alot of top competition but he dominated in his games in run and pass . He was very good against speed guys but it was when ends long armed him he had issues. I could see teams thinking he was a guard and a good one. 

Whoever takes him I think works him at both spots but keeps him to one side for at least his first year (LT/LG or RT/RG).

If we don’t draft Josh Jones at 33 I would take a flier on Trey Adams later on in the draft. If it wasn’t for his injuries I think Adams would have been projected higher , he seems like a more natural right tackle with his size.

(04-24-2020, 11:35 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A lot of people are not as high on a guy like Damien Lewis as I am, but I honestly don't see a big difference between him and Jones and Lewis did it at a far superior level of competition.  

Would you want to spend #33 overall on a RG?  There is a lot of difference of opinion on Jones, and that scares me a bit.  His level of competition was pathetic.  Their toughest opponent was Oklahoma (the rest sucked) and Oklahoma doesn't have any high draft picks coming out of that defensive end roster.  Why take him when there is potentially first round talent available?  Mims was referred to as first round talent by many after the Senior Bowl, and I still can't believe I am the only one that thinks Claypool is a first round talent.  I seem to be on an island on that one.  

After Mims, Claypool, Higgins, and Pittman, I see a substantial dropoff at WR talent.  I don't think any of those guys are available in Rd 3.  Yet I see lots of talent at LB that could start in our nickel package immediately.  And there is guard talent that could compete at RG to be had in Rd 4.

Yea I see a huge difference, Jones can eventually play tackle and Lewis won’t. You can start Jones at Guard year one then next year move him to tackle.

As for WR it’s a tough read, I don’t know if the team sees it as a pressing need right now. Taylor said whoever they take at 33 needs to be a starter and no WR is starting this year and their reps are probably limited in a currently crowded room which makes me wonder if 33 and WR go together in the staffs mind.

65 is the perfect spot for a Lb as some combination of Logan Wilson, Willie Gay, Davis-Gaithersburg, and Malik Harrison should be there. I don’t think any stand out head and shoulders above so I’d take any.