One thing excites me and that is winning. If Joe can't do what AD did in year one after being locked out and a 2nd round pick, it is just another lost year.

I am happy the FO was more active in FA, but excited = winning, Everything else is just a smoke screen and I will be upset if we don't win more games than we lose.

(06-15-2020, 09:40 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: One thing excites me and that is winning. If Joe can't do what AD did in year one after being locked out and a 2nd round pick, it is just another lost year.

I am happy the FO was more active in FA, but excited = winning, Everything else is just a smoke screen and I will be upset if we don't win more games than we lose.

Well duh! It’s put up or shut up time once the season starts. The off-season is for dreamin of what could be and telling ourselves we will be 1,000,000x better to cope with the past seasons failures!

(06-14-2020, 11:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps they are not the best in the NFL but to suggest someone stating the following could be the best in the NFL deserves a "child Please?" is silly:

WJ!!!
Trae Waynes
McKensie Alexander
Darrius Phillips
Jesse Bates
ShawnWilliams 
Vonn Bell
Brandon Wilson

That's the group I'm talking about. If all those guys stay healthy and contribute all year. Shew wee there is so much break out potential. All of them are in their prime with Shawn Williams being the elder at 29.. I thought Phillips and Wilson were ready for more prominent roles so having them as top quality depth to go along with being the special teams demons that they are makes them very valuable. Our projected starting 5 is two first round picks and three second round picks all on their rookie contract or entering the first year of their second contract. 

I fell like we had two really great players, WJ3 and Jessie Bates, two really nice pieces for a secondy. And hearing recently the WJ3 played through a bad shoulder helps explain why he didn't look like the guy he has shown he can be. We splurged and added 3 tops free agents to those two. I think they have a chance to be special.

(06-14-2020, 11:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps they are not the best in the NFL but to suggest someone stating the following could be the best in the NFL deserves a "child Please?" is silly:

WJ!!! - Not as good last year as he was.... needs to step it up this year
Trae Waynes- Unknown in Lou's system
McKensie Alexander- Unknown in Lou's system
Darrius Phillips- shows promise
Jesse Bates- We need rookie Jessie Bates making interceptions
ShawnWilliams - will probably be playing linebacker
Vonn Bell- unknown in Lou's system
Brandon Wilson- shows promise

Not knocking these guys, I think they we be good, but no way can we call them one of the best yet....

I am feeling very optimistic also. We made a lot of great moves this off season. But things are not as rosey as some people claim.

First let me state the positivies so the guys wearing blinders won't accuse me of just being contrary.

-We got the best college QB prospect to come out in a long time. He is not as perfect as some here think, but QB is the most important position on the team and we were damn lucky to get Burrow.

-We have a couple of players that could be very good who missed all of last season with injury (Green, Williams). Every team has players coming back from injury, but few who could be that good who missed the entire 2019 season.

-We made some very good signings in free agency (Reader, Bell).

-The first 8 games of last season our defense and rush offense were not just bad. They were on pace to be among the worst in mordern NFL history. The coaches made some key adjustments and over the las 8 games we had a top ten rush offense and a defense that was close to average. So while we still just won 2 games I feel we are not as bad as some of the full season numbers seem to indicate because we were not as bad as we looked over the first 8 games.



Now on to some moves that I have some concerns about.

-Su'a-Filo was cut by the Titans in 2018 and has been a back up ever since. The starter we released (Miller) got paid more in free agency than we gave Xavier. He is supposed to be a better "scheme fit", so he may be an upgrade, but I have to see it first.

-Josh Bynes is a career back up who could not even make an NFL roster out of training camp last year. Only two times in his career has he ever got more than a one year contract, and he has been cut both times in the second year. People claim he will be a good "veteran presence", but I hope it is from the bench. Others drool over his PFF ratings, but the fact that Vigil got paid 40% more than Bynes in free agency gives you a good idea of what the NFL thinks of PFF ratings.

-We grossly over paid for Trae Waynes. Right now Bengal fans are so thriulled that we spent a lot of money on free agency that they won't complain about anyone we signed. But the fact is that a lot of big free agent signings don't work out. I don't think Waynes is an upgrade over Kirkpatyrick in coverage. He will still improve the defense if he can stay healthy and tackle better, but we should not pay $14 million a year for a CB with tackling skills.

(06-15-2020, 01:24 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: During the lockout year the team and players did not have any contact. This year they are on video calls in video classrooms interacting with coaches asking questions they all have the playbook. With the change in the culture ZT is bringing to the team the rookies being coaches sons or team captains from their college teams they should all be up to par in their heads. They will make rookie mistakes and need to get their muscle memory down once they hit the field but they should be well ahead of the lockout year guys. Which went to the playoffs.

All teams are following the same protocol, but the advantage goes to the teams that already have cohesive lines that have played together for seasons, and quarterbacks and recievers who have played together and have the timing down. We have none of that. I still think we get 9-10 wins.

(06-15-2020, 10:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: All teams are following the same protocol, but the advantage goes to the teams that already have cohesive lines that have played together for seasons, and quarterbacks and recievers who have played together and have the timing down. We have none of that. I still think we get 9-10 wins.

I never said we had an advantage over other teams. We are just better off then the lockout year where the team and players had no contact at all. Players could meet up with players but coaches could not give Dalton or Green playbooks and talk with them over video call and such.

(06-15-2020, 10:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am feeling very optimistic also.  We made a lot of great moves this off season.  But things are not as rosey as some people claim.

First let me state the positivies so the guys wearing blinders won't accuse me of just being contrary.  

-We got the best college QB prospect to come out in a long time.  He is not as perfect as some here think, but QB is the most important position on the team and we were damn lucky to get Burrow.

-We have a couple of players that could be very good who missed all of last season with injury (Green, Williams).  Every team has players coming back from injury, but few who could be that good who missed the entire 2019 season.

-We made some very good signings in free agency (Reader, Bell).

-The first 8 games of last season our defense and rush offense were not just bad.  They were on pace to be among the worst in mordern NFL history.  The coaches made some key adjustments and over the las 8 games we had a top ten rush offense and a defense that was close to average.  So while we still just won 2 games I feel we are not as bad as some of the full season numbers seem to indicate because we were not as bad as we looked over the first 8 games.



Now on to some moves that I have some concerns about.

-Su'a-Filo was cut by the Titans in 2018 and has been a back up ever since.  The starter we released (Miller) got paid more in free agency than we gave Xavier. He is supposed to be a better "scheme fit", so he may be an upgrade, but I have to see it first.

-Josh Bynes is a career back up who could not even make an NFL roster out of training camp last year.  Only two times in his career has he ever got more than a one year contract, and he has been cut both times in the second year.  People claim he will be a good "veteran presence", but I hope it is from the bench.  Others drool over his PFF ratings, but the fact that Vigil got paid 40% more than Bynes in free agency gives you a good idea of what the NFL thinks of PFF ratings.

-We grossly over paid for Trae Waynes.  Right now Bengal fans are so thriulled that we spent a lot of money on free agency that they won't complain about anyone we signed.  But the fact is that a lot of big free agent signings don't work out.  I don't think Waynes is an upgrade over Kirkpatyrick in coverage.  He will still improve the defense if he can stay healthy and tackle better, but we should not pay $14 million a year for a CB with tackling skills.

Just because a player makes more amount  of dollars than player X does not mean he's automatically better than 
That player. 
Nick Chubby of the Browns is one of the best RBs in the NFL.
but hes not even a in the top 7 of highest paid RBs.
The truth is Josh Bynes had more intrest on the FA market 
Than Nick Vigil did.

(06-15-2020, 11:36 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Nick Chubby of the Browns is one of the best RBs in the NFL.
but hes not even a in the top 7 of highest paid RBs.

1.) Since the letter B is nowhere near the letter Y on a keyboard I'm left guessing between a few possible scenarios here: A.) You actually think his name is Nick Chubby, B.) It's a Freudian slip, or C.) This nickname is somehow meant to be humorous.

I'm actually dying to know the answer.

2.) Nick Chubb is on a rookie deal, of course he's not among the top 7 paid.  Neither is Saquan Barkley, who is arguably the most talented back in the league.

(06-15-2020, 11:36 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The truth is Josh Bynes had more intrest on the FA market 
Than Nick Vigil did.

The truth is you are just making stuff up.

They signed the same day and Vigil got a lot more money.

(06-15-2020, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The truth is you are just making stuff up.

They signed the same day and Vigil got a lot more money.

Oh my memory is clear on this trust me 
Bynes had Intrest in at least 2 other teams it was reported 
Nick Vigil it saId had the Raiders kicking the tires on him 
But there was no visit or anything 
Bynes was the more desired LB between the 2.

(06-15-2020, 03:07 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Oh my memory is clear on this trust me 
Bynes had Intrest in at least 2 other teams it was reported 
Nick Vigil it saId had the Raiders kicking the tires on him 
But there was no visit or anything 
Bynes was the more desired LB between the 2.

"Reports" during free agency are usually just rumors started by a player's own agent to drum up business.

If Bynes was more highly desired then he would have gotten paid more or he would have signed earlier.

I am very excited about Bengals football and really hope there is a season. I also hope the new young QB can just concentrate on football and leave all the other stuff off the field. Whodey 2020!

(06-15-2020, 03:07 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Oh my memory is clear on this trust me 
Bynes had Intrest in at least 2 other teams it was reported 
Nick Vigil it saId had the Raiders kicking the tires on him 
But there was no visit or anything 
Bynes was the more desired LB between the 2.

Don't have a horse in this race, but Vigil met with the Chargers and the Raiders FOR SURE, plus there may have been another team or two.

Bynes had interest from two teams and only one visit (us).

(06-15-2020, 04:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Don't have a horse in this race, but Vigil met with the Chargers and the Raiders FOR SURE, plus there may have been another team or two.

Bynes had interest from two teams and only one visit (us).

alone it would be just another Bengal bargain signing. 

Add it to all the other signings we had. He's  a bonus. Not a single fan in here has lauded him as being an all pro candidate. We have all stated over and over that he appears to be a decent starter that holds his own and can provide a veteran leadership that is lacking with our LBs group.

As far as someone else trying to say that how much a guy is played determines how much better he is? Thats very poor way to compare. There are plenty of players that don't play up to their dollar amount as well as those that play over it. Not only that, some players will take less to have a shot at a starting role vs back up. Too many variables to make that a basis of an argument. To me, a players on the field play is a much better way of determining his fit.

What's most important is to find the right guy for the right price that fits the coach/team's vision going forward.

(06-14-2020, 07:24 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Needless to say, like most of you, I'm really pumped for the 2020 season.  I was trying to think of the last time I was this excited for a season.  I think the honest answer to that question is that's been well over a decade.

Without going into too much detail, and completely rehashing old beaten down topics, I started losing a lot of excitement probably around '09.  I know we had some decent teams since that time, but I never had much faith in Marvin beyond then.  Brat was a hanger-on at that time, and the staff was littered with guys that managed to stay on well beyond. (Alexander, Zampese, Hayes Bros, etc.)

I really think what most bothered me is not enough ever seemed to change.  It was basically the same regime and the same approach.  And as much as I came to respect Andy, I never considered him someone worthy of having a "fund" for years in advance.  The team and thier appraoch to me became stale and boring.

A lot of people said that myself and others wanted change simply for the sake of change. I never really thought that was at all fair.  I simply wanted to try something different because what we we're doing never resulted in getting over the hump.  I often said I'd rather try drastic change and fail then try the same old, same old and get blasted in the Wild Card round.

Well, now we're here.  We've got an overhauled coaching staff, and one that is much younger.  We've got a brand new QB, who might very well be the best prospect to come out in the last decade.  And, to top it off, we've got the biggest Free Agent class in franchise history.  We actually spent the 3rd most in the league in free agency, to the tune of well over 100 mil dollars.

Call me crazy, I don't see how anyone couldn't be excited with all of that.  I actually think the not knowing exactly what we have yet is exciting in and of itself.  I really just can't wait to see what this team looks like.  I can't wait to see the approach with the new QB.  I can't wait to see what the new QB looks like. I can't wait to see how a guy likes Higgins looks.  I can't wait to see what difference the additions on defense makes.

Will this team be better than some of those Marvin teams?  I don't know, and frankly right now I really don't care.  For me, I knew exactly what we had in those teams. Average to good, but never great.  The beauty with this team is I have no idea what we have just yet, and that's exciting.  For the first time in forever I'm starting to look down the line and envision this roster and their potential to be a contender.  With the FA haul, I'm starting to allow myself to imagine all sorts of possibilities moving forward.

I LOVE the new aggressive approach, and I LOVE all the new faces.  September can't come soon enough!!!

Feel the same, never been this excited going into a season. With Marv I knew he could field a good team that could compete but
once we got to the Playoffs I knew we wouldn't win cause he couldn't outcoach Playoff caliber coaches as we saw. We will see if 
Zac can as he grows into a HC. He is young, so he can learn and this is his team now, not Marv's.

The way they went after FA's that are good tacklers shown they see the weaknesses and will address them and this is the most 
active I have ever seen this team in FA. Then adding Burrow and Higgins while Jonah and XSF are here should make our Offense
much better. It will take some time for the team to gel but once it does I think this could be one hell of a team.

(06-14-2020, 11:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wouldn’t say we have the best WR group either. Although they’re definitely up there. TB’s is pretty damn good for one, and now they have Brady throwing them the ball...

Now if John Ross finally puts it all together and stays healthy, and AJ returns to his pre-injuries form, and Higgins has a big rookie season, then yes, we could arguably be the very best. That’s a lot of if’s though.

Not sure Ross will be counted on or even needed, but could be nice bonus if only. 

Yet think AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, and Tee Higgins  will be very formidable. 

The big "IF" in my mind is still the O-line giving Burrow time to utilize this strong WR group. 

You are right with questions about AJ and unproven Higgins, but think all will be well 

I was very excited to start the season but now I have this feeling that it’s gonna be half about politics. Hopefully they do their disrespectful kneeling and then play the game without any other political crap being brought up by the NFL or the announcers.

I'm a bit more excited and it Starts with the QB.
Andy Dalton got this franchise to the playoffs
And did his best
But this franchise has needed a QB that embraces
Changing a culture and is up to challenging teamates
That can't bring their A game
I think Dalton limited ZTs playbook to a extent
Burrow expands it.
Im hoping this roster can stay healthy.
Health will really determine how far this team
Goes this year.
Im crossing my fingers the coaching staff has learned
From its errors as coaches from 2019.

Whichever formations we use this year with two three or four linebackers. I think we will be improved in pass coverage with the linebackers we have now on the team helping the DB cover the whole field.

Not to mention the pass rush that will help as well. Heard a lot of praise of of D-line so far this year.