It's very simple.  WE ARE IN A PANDEMIC.  Covid19.   IF baseball plays a short season, with no fans in stands and half as many games,  OF COURSE there won't be as much money coming in.   

Now if Reds or Bengals are at great health risk, I don't want them to play. 

However the stance of Snell and Bauer that they won't play for one penny less,  I can't respect or go along with that.  

If the players and players union refuse to play because they can't accept a short season means less money, then the heck with them. 

I would like to see some Reds and Bengals but not if Covid puts their health at risk.    Now if they don't play because of less sports income due to Covid.  If they don't play over salary issues forced by less revenue, then the heck with them.   

I would like to see Reds & Bengals but not at health risk,  If they all whine about salaries like Snell & Bauer, they can all Take Off.  Most people think they are all over paid and will have no sympathy for them.  

If the Owners have a lot less money coming in 2020 due to pandemic, the heck with players that say they won't play for a penny less. 

They are at a health risk... That's why they should be paid. A contract is a contract. We hear that all the time when players hold out. Why are we taking the side of billionaires? We seem to do that every time this is an issue.

except this is NOT like every time there is an ISSUE

Look at the USA. Look at the World. More people unemployed than The Great Depression.

Have Hospitals changed, YES. Have Family Doctors changed, YES. Have schools changed, YES. Have most jobs changed, YES. Have TV Talk Shows changed, YES. Did voting change, YES. No toilet paper, YES. Stores out of meat, YES. Everything has been changed.

and here sits Baseball. Players and their Agents and Unions won't budge. This idea to agree on a short season by June 1st is falling apart. Reds have cut 25 % of their staff. Hundreds of minor league players just got fired, with hundreds more coming. There is no minor league baseball and so many minor league players are joining the ranks of the unemployed. Many minor league coaches and staff have been fired. Minor league baseball as of now no longer exists. Major League Baseball as of now doesn't exist. Stadiums sit empty. Reds have fired 25 % of their staff with probably more firings to come.

As for contracts, that could be one more nail in the coffin. Unions, Agents and Lawyers upon Lawyers taking all this crap to court for years on end as stadiums sit empty. And if the Superstars and their Agents win in court and destroy the owners and the teams, with no minor or major league teams to play for, then what ??? Go into Wrestling ? Bag groceries at a store ? IF they win and kill baseball, then what do the Superstars do ?

It now looks like there will be no 2020 baseball season, minor league or major league and many players and staff are getting fired. No Baseball, No Baseball Jobs. Up next comes the NFL and same thing could happen there. No Football, No Football Jobs.

Now when I was a kid in 1960's, there was 20 baseball teams. So less teams, less players, less minor leagues. Salaries were low and major league players had winter jobs. Reds Clay Carroll was a Cop in the off season. Pete Rose dreamed of being first singles hitter to make 100 thousand a year. Only 5 or 10 players made 100 thousand. The idea of Government and Tax Payers putting up the money for new stadiums was unheard of. Beer and Shaving Cream were the major commercials. There was no ESPN, The local news gave the last few minutes of half hour news to quickly give sports scores and weather. Beer Companies use to give away hundreds of Reds tickets to bars who carried their beer, making bar bus excursions cheap.

Then came the Big Money Era. Strikes. Big Money. Ticket Prices went through the roof. Big Corporation sponsors of rich white collar replaced blue collar commercials. The balloon got bigger and bigger. Many have wondered when that balloon would burst. In 2020 the balloon has burst. Fans, Players, Agents, Unions, Owners may not know it yet, but the balloon has blown up. Empty Stadiums. No Minors or Majors. Maybe no college football. If Baseball could reopen Today, most Americans could not afford the same high ticket prices with more unemployment than The Great Depression.

So if Hospitals, Doctors, Schools, Jobs have been hit hard and had changes in 2020. so to will be basketball, baseball, football. The mega million contracts just blew up. Reds fired 25% of their staff and are firing minor league players because there is no minor leagues now. It looks like there will be no major leagues. The Superstars and their Agents can go to courts with all the lawyers they want, but if they win, they kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Then what, bag groceries ? Nobody is going to pay them mega millions to bag groceries.

So the USA and The World are in Hard Times. The Depression from 2020 may last way into future as Great Depression did, It won't be fixed over night. Yet Sports Superstars and their Agents feel none of this effects them, they have contracts. Right now the only thing those contracts are is a good substitute for no toilet paper. I suggest these Players and Agents watch movies like Cinderella Man or Hard Times of Great Depression to see what their contracts are worth with all empty stadiums.

So as of today, Reds have fired 25% of staff. Minor League players are getting fired. Major League negotiations are falling apart by Players and Agents and a season in 2020 is running out of time and probably won't happen. Empty stadiums, No TV. So no Money at all to pay players, contracts be damned. Next up, The NFL.

The World and USA problem is bigger than sports, agents and contracts. Mega Sports may not know it yet, but the balloon has burst. I promise you all the staff and minor league players now Fired know the sports balloon has burst.

THIS is not like any of the other owner/ player issues. Not in any way, stretch or form is this like any of the other sports issues since Great Depression or World War II.

Very doubtful there will be 2020 baseball as Agents stand in the way. Well, maybe Snell or Bauer can get jobs in Wrestling or at a Grocery Store once they kill Baseball. With so many in the world out of work, they may not get those jobs.

So basketball was stopped. It looks like no baseball. Football is very much in doubt. Right now those contracts make a good substitute for no toilet paper. There was a time the Clay Carroll's would have agreed to half a season and half pay which is better than No Pay. Not Today. Today's high paid players seem determined to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Some fans may cry for them, but 95 % of the world will have problems of their own and see these American Athletes as foolish, spoiled, mostly foolish. In the end, the world has bigger problems and will not cry over these athletes demanding mega millions.

Add on. News is Reds will pay minor league players all year. That is huge because many teams are cutting and firing hundreds of minor league players. This could be a Smart Move by Reds Ownership. Keep their minor league players, do the draft, maybe pick up good futures other teams are cutting. Go into 2021 with the best minor league players in baseball. Reds could build World Series dynasty from such a move. Keeping and adding minors when other teams getting rid of minors. Could just make Reds a Super Power in years to come.

Looking like no baseball in 2020. Reds may not have money to keep all these high priced vets they added. Reds may already be looking to a minors rebuild. They aren't the Yankees and Reds lesser money may be better spent on minors. Reds are one of the few teams keeping and paying all their minor league players. Investing in THE FUTURES. Some small market teams like Tampa win many games going with no names youths over big name has been's

I think I'd rather just forget this season and focus on 2021. I don't like doctored up baseball. I will miss it, but I want a normal season next year.

Owners and players running out of time to decide whether or not to have baseball this year. I think some of the owners want to cut their losses and just shut it down for the season. In other words, they don't want to lose more money than they already have. That's okay with me.

If they don’t play a little contact sport like baseball in July, how can they play a full contact sport like Football a month later?

(06-01-2020, 05:07 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: If they don’t play a little contact sport like baseball in July, how can they play a full contact sport like Football a month later?

My gut tells me there will be neither... It sucks, but I think it's all wishful thinking to assume otherwise. I'd love to be wrong.

(05-28-2020, 07:18 PM)jason Wrote: They are at a health risk... That's why they should be paid. A contract is a contract. We hear that all the time when players hold out. Why are we taking the side of billionaires? We seem to do that every time this is an issue.

I almost always side with the players.  I feel they should get their fair share of revenues.  That is always the biggest issue in the union negotiations.  what percentage of revenue do the players deserve.

So no matter how much I support the players I can't see them getting the same money despite only generating a fraction of the revenues.

(06-01-2020, 05:07 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: If they don’t play a little contact sport like baseball in July, how can they play a full contact sport like Football a month later?

The baseball players don't decide what the football players do.

The NBA just voted to re-start the season.

Basball players would be stupid not to play at all.

Screw baseball. While they're busy arguing about whether they can spit on the ground, Americans are coming to realize just how non-essential and irrelevant they are. Most people couldn't care less whether the billionaires or the millionaires or right. They can all go straight to hell. They will only be briefly missed.

(06-04-2020, 05:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The baseball players don't decide what the football players do.

The NBA just voted to re-start the season.

Basball players would be stupid not to play at all.

Agreed but baseball was recently trying to make it like it was strictly about safety when money and greed seems to be the bigger issue right now.

(06-04-2020, 09:18 PM)McC Wrote: Screw baseball. While they're busy arguing about whether they can spit on the ground, Americans are coming to realize just how non-essential and irrelevant they are. Most people couldn't care less whether the billionaires or the millionaires or right. They can all go straight to hell. They will only be briefly missed.

They care more about the tv contracts now then putting butts in seats and that’s been for awhile now. What they al make for what they provide to society is pretty sickening and recent events have added some prospective to a lot of people.

Both sides are still negotiating a season this year. I would like to see baseball, but doubt it happens at this rate. Oh well, stay tuned.

If there's no baseball because of failed negations, the sport will take a long time to recover. It may not recover in smaller markets like Cincinnati. Baseball was everything in Cincy before the last strike-shortened season. People took a long time to come back. Even in 99 when they were a really exciting team to watch, the stadium as pretty empty. People don't take that sort of thing lightly.

I get not wanting an altered oddball season, but there has to be a real effort to get something done for the good of the pro game. Corona won't be enough of an excuse to get them off the hook when other sports like NASCAR and the NBA are getting back to being active. Everyone knows that the negotiations are a shit show right now, and the blame will be directed at the players and owners, not the pandemic.

Someone's going to have to swallow their pride for the good of the game.

(06-04-2020, 05:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The baseball players don't decide what the football players do.

The NBA just voted to re-start the season.

Basball players would be stupid not to play at all.

Yep.  I get that they don't want to take less money.  I'm definitely not one of the people that's going to call them overpaid or spoiled because they're negotiating.  It's really easy for people like us with regular jobs to say that we'd play for a fraction of what they do.  Everyone says they'd be happy to get a million dollars to play a kid's game.  Sure you would, but would you feel the same about playing for a million if someone signed you to a deal to get 20 million?  I seriously doubt it.  

They need to consider the viability of the sport if they want to keep the golden goose alive.  If they torpedo the season and a large number of fans are mad enough to stop caring, there won't be nearly as much revenue to go around in the future.  

I can't help but wonder if the players holdout or whatever you want to call it ? What it's going to do down the line ? I remember the strike of 94/95 and it took years to get many of the fans back, including me. Different circumstances I know but still.

(06-15-2020, 02:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I can't help but wonder if the players holdout or whatever you want to call it ? What it's going to do down the line ? I remember the strike of 94/95 and it took years to get many of the fans back, including me. Different circumstances I know but still.

And what is really screwy is that these same people will have negotiations again at the end of next season. With this and making sports political, I’m close to being done with it all. They’re not a boyish escape from reality anymore.

There won't be baseball this season. Too many things to work out that won't be able to be worked out.

If they don't play this year, by the time next year rolls around, nobody will even care about it any more. MLB is all but finished.

(06-15-2020, 10:30 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: And what is really screwy is that these same people will have negotiations again at the end of next season. With this and making sports political, I’m close to being done with it all. They’re not a boyish escape from reality anymore.

Haha... That's what LSD is for. Sports have always been reality, and I'm not sure I understand how labor negotiations are "political". Would you like to get screwed over in pay working under abnormal/ potentially dangerous working conditions? Probably not. Things are screwy right now. It's not political unless you take it there. MLB, the player's union, or Rob Manfred don't give a damn who the president is, or will be. It's about the bottom line... Money. Always has been.