(06-29-2020, 04:32 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m lost, whaddya mean, isn’t Turner the Oline coach? Does he have no say in who starts??

No he does not have final say.... Taylor decides and I remember a article very early in training camp where Taylor referenced we have no starting center it is open season. Hopkins outperformed Price and actually if Turner had influence on that call good for him since Hopkins was are best lineman by most or all accounts

(06-29-2020, 04:20 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Ok, so that seems to be the dominant reaction to my reaction. But let's look at this in context. He says some nice things, but he says nice things about EVERY lineman he has. You have to take that with a grain of salt and read between the lines (to mix some metaphors). I mean by that logic he's excited about O'shea Dugas too. I read more into the part where he said Fred Johnson acts like he doesn't care (which definitely comes off if you watch an interview with FJ... I mean the dude loves his video games). 

Point being he's going to praise every player, but when one of them illicit's a pretty serious "on the other hand," it's not great. 

The context is he spent several minutes going over Johnson and what his strengths and weaknesses are and spent 5 seconds praising guys like Dugas and Prince. The only guys that got as much or more time were Jonah, Jordan and Adeniji.

If I recall correctly, without having to go back and listen again, Turner said right after mentioning that Johnson is just a different guy, he likes that because you need different personalities on a team.

(06-29-2020, 04:36 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: No offense my friend, but your definition of "opinion" seems to be "wild ass guess." 

Do I know that for a fact? No, it's my opinion. But you see, in this case i'm basing it from collected evidence, being my observation of a number of your posts where you seem to make things up and call it an opinion. 

For your knowledge, here is the definition of opinion:

Opinion: noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

I don’t think they get along, *shrug*, sorry that hurt your posting experience.

Looking for improvement from this bunch as a whole. Price needs to get his shit together and earn that money.

(06-29-2020, 11:32 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: If you haven't already, check out the latest Bengals Booth Podcast where Jim Turner is interviewed for almost 40 minutes: https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-booth-podcast-block-party

Turner talks up all his guys, as a coach would during the offseason, but is also pretty forthright and honest. What did you all think were the biggest takeaways?

Here are mine:

1. Maybe we can put the "Fred Johnson is quietly the RT of the future" narrative to rest. Turner even flatly says Johnson has never been a standout and acts like he doesn't care about football. He lauds Johnson's size and intelligence, sure, but competitiveness and will to win are the things ZT has been promoting all along. I did not get the impression he's as high on Johnson as many in the media and this board are. The fact that he says he wanted to take an OL higher than we did in the draft leads me to believe he's not as high on our current talent as he acts.

Also alarming that he told Ben Martin not to teach Johnson any technique going into the Browns game, but I digress.

2. When Lap interviews him he ticks off all the guys he think can contribute, and never mentions Billy Price, at least not until Hoard jumps in at the end to ask about him. He mentions Alex Redmond as a potential starter before Price. The best thing he can say about Price is that he took his demotion well... big deal. I still have hope Price can turn the corner, but this is damning with faint praise.

3. He is extremely high on Mike Jordan, and I think for good reason. I'm bullish on Jordan. Remember he was an early entry junior who never redshirted. He was always supposed to be a project for the future. Forget what Hobson says about Jordan "earning" the starting job... he got it because of injuries to Glenn and Boling's retirement. But as Turner points out, if he'd gone back to school in 2019 where would he have been drafted this year? I think actually pretty high.

All I can say about this unit is that its underwhelming to a large degree. Jonah Williams aside, the rest of them could be upgraded rather easily if anyone cared to. And we have no idea how Jonah Williams is going to play.

The fact that Alex Redmond is even on the team let along competing for a starting job tells volumes about how weak this unit is inside.

Bobby Hart got better last year and some seem to think that warrants him starting, but for me I ask "better compared to what?" He's still a low-end OT.

I really wouldn't be surprised if we drafted 4 new OLmen next season.

 

(06-29-2020, 11:32 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: If 1. Maybe we can put the "Fred Johnson is quietly the RT of the future" narrative to rest. Turner even flatly says Johnson has never been a standout and acts like he doesn't care about football. He lauds Johnson's size and intelligence, sure, but competitiveness and will to win are the things ZT has been promoting all along. I did not get the impression he's as high on Johnson as many in the media and this board are. The fact that he says he wanted to take an OL higher than we did in the draft leads me to believe he's not as high on our current talent as he acts.

Also alarming that he told Ben Martin not to teach Johnson any technique going into the Browns game, but I digress.

I'm very sorry to sound smart-alecky, but I have 0 clue how you got ANY of what you thought, out of what he said; I think it is clear as day that he is MASSIVELY-high on Fred and that he feels Fred will be a major contributor on the line.

The whole, "not caring about football," is absolutely NOT what was said; he said that Fred didn't play at all until his junior year of HS, thus he didn't have this ingrained culture and pedigree or background, of football in his life. Thus, he had other things going on that came first in his life and his natural talent is why he has become who he is; he never said anything about his current life, being about football, it was all when he was growing up.

From the sounds of that podcast, he is most high on:

1. MJ
2. Adeniji
3. Fred
4. Jonah
5. Hopkins

Hell, he talked about X-man even less than he did about the entire rest of the team.

Turner says, "Burrow," like his mouth is full of marbles

(06-29-2020, 07:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm very sorry to sound smart-alecky, but I have 0 clue how you got ANY of what you thought, out of what he said; I think it is clear as day that he is MASSIVELY-high on Fred and that he feels Fred will be a major contributor on the line.

The whole, "not caring about football," is absolutely NOT what was said; he said that Fred didn't play at all until his junior year of HS, thus he didn't have this ingrained culture and pedigree or background, of football in his life. Thus, he had other things going on that came first in his life and his natural talent is why he has become who he is; he never said anything about his current life, being about football, it was all when he was growing up.

From the sounds of that podcast, he is most high on:

1. MJ
2. Adeniji
3. Fred
4. Jonah
5. Hopkins

Hell, he talked about X-man even less than he did about the entire rest of the team.

Turner says, "Burrow," like his mouth is full of marbles

I listened to the podcast and he was the typical coach and said positive things about all.. Mentioned Hart is probably the most dedicated to his craft and as smart as anyone on the line.. He talked more on Fred but a good portion of that was just about his background.. being undrafted, his size raw ability etc. and the great strides he has made but He also discussed how he still rough around the edges and has work to do to improve..   

Go Fred Johnson

(06-29-2020, 07:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm very sorry to sound smart-alecky, but I have 0 clue how you got ANY of what you thought, out of what he said; I think it is clear as day that he is MASSIVELY-high on Fred and that he feels Fred will be a major contributor on the line.

The whole, "not caring about football," is absolutely NOT what was said; he said that Fred didn't play at all until his junior year of HS, thus he didn't have this ingrained culture and pedigree or background, of football in his life. Thus, he had other things going on that came first in his life and his natural talent is why he has become who he is; he never said anything about his current life, being about football, it was all when he was growing up.

From the sounds of that podcast, he is most high on:

1. MJ
2. Adeniji
3. Fred
4. Jonah
5. Hopkins

Hell, he talked about X-man even less than he did about the entire rest of the team.

Turner says, "Burrow," like his mouth is full of marbles

Oh, that didn't sound smart alecky, especially since yours seems to be the popular take. Could a been worse. I did explain why I interpreted it this way elsewhere in this thread. He did say something to the effect of "Fred likes to fake you out into thinking he doesn't care, he's got a lot of pursuits other than football, but then he always knows the answer." It's just that when it's unqualified effusive praise of virtually everybody, even John Jerry, and then one guy gets a really important qualification, you wonder. 

Bold Prediction.I believe Fred Johnson,Michael Jordan,and Jonah Williams,will be the top rated O-linemen on the team this year.I know a lot of people likely disagree,but I like what they’re putting together on this O-line.We’ll see.

Forgot another juicy tidbit from the interview. Lapham asked about Warford without saying his name. Turner said they are keeping tabs on FA’s, but have no intention of bringing anybody else in, unless there’s an injury.

(06-29-2020, 11:52 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I listened to this yesterday and got the exact opposite feeling for what Turner thinks of Johnson. I heard him praise Johnson and admire how talented he is having only started football as a junior in high school. The whole “don’t teach him technique” was done to not overload him mentally before his first ever start. Turner wanted Johnson just playing on instinct and talent.

I agree Freddy as Turner calls him is raw and needs coaching and reps but with his size and intelligence could turn out to be a good player. Not all guys are going to be coming in at the break of daylight and leaving at dusk. Turner told Jonah Williams to go out and do other things enjoy himself so he does not expect every guy to be totally in love with football. That does not mean they can not turn into a really good player at some point in their career. What Turner does like is big guys 310 and up and Freddy is massive at 6'7 and 326 pounds.

(06-29-2020, 12:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

I do not think Turner will keep a guy out of the lineup if he outplays and beats a guy out for his spot. But Billy came in as a rookie as a know it all type guy and figured he had the starting spot locked down and did not have to fight to hold on to that spot. In Billy's interview recently he came out making excuses about his injury and he still don't seem to get it that he has to improve as a player to bring his skills up to a NFL level. I hope Billy can win a starting spot and improve this o-line and team it will suck to cut a first round pick next year.

(06-29-2020, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have not listened to theinterview yet, but it could just be that you can't teach a lot of technique in a couple of weeks of regular season practice.

Remenber when Alexander said he would work on a player's (I think maybe Bodine) poor technique in the offseason?

A "technique" used in a sport is a habit that you do without thinking.  I have never played golf, but I have heard that guys ruin their swing by thinking about too many details of the swing. Changing technique usually requires TONS of repetition because it is actually learning a new habit.

And in the regular season most of the time is spent preparing for the strengths and weaknesses of specific opponenets instead of working on fundamentals of technique.  

Or, since I have not actual heard him yet, he might mean something completely different.

It is always interesting to note how different people can get different messages from the same interview.  But I will probably also hear what I want to hear when I listen to it.

Alexander also had a saying in the offseason like you can only coach so much you need live football reps in games to improve. It is like he was passing the buck. I know he coached up some good football players in his time but near the end after 28 years here I think he was ready to move on as much as we was ready to move on from him.

(06-29-2020, 11:15 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Bold Prediction.I believe Fred Johnson,Michael Jordan,and Jonah Williams,will be the top rated O-linemen on the team this year.I know a lot of people likely disagree,but I like what they’re putting together on this O-line.We’ll see.

(06-30-2020, 01:41 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Forgot another juicy tidbit from the interview. Lapham asked about Warford without saying his name. Turner said they are keeping tabs on FA’s, but have no intention of bringing anybody else in, unless there’s an injury.

X-man is 29 Trey Hopkins is 27 everyone else on the O-line is fairly young Turner is not just looking for 5 starters he needs back ups as well and he likes the guys he has. He could bring in Warford or other O-linemen you guys have mentioned in threads we have the cap room. Turner likes the guys he has now and he thinks they can protect Burrow as well as open holes for Mixon. He mentioned how we tried to use the Rams running game last year at the start and switched later in the year and improved. Which I think they said we finished in 6th place in the run game since we switched it up till the end of the year. If we stay with the same system this year then the O-line should hit the ground running and be vastly improved over the beginning of last year. So he just needs to work on these guys pass protection so Burrow has time to throw the ball. Turner was asked if he was worried about the O-line holding the offense back this year and he said no not at all and neither am I.

Turner also mentioned you need guys that want to win every game and win Super Bowls he said they was guys on the team last year that did not have this mindset and they are gone now.

I think Price may be a great trade candidate to dump his salary. I would take a 2023 round 7 pick.

(06-30-2020, 07:25 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I do not think Turner will keep a guy out of the lineup if he outplays and beats a guy out for his spot. But Billy came in as a rookie as a know it all type guy and figured he had the starting spot locked down and did not have to fight to hold on to that spot. In Billy's interview recently he came out making excuses about his injury and he still don't seem to get it that he has to improve as a player to bring his skills up to a NFL level. I hope Billy can win a starting spot and improve this o-line and team it will suck to cut a first round pick next year.

I would have more faith in Turner on that front but he doesn’t have a great track record in regards to player relation issues.

Either way, we both know Billy hasn’t played up to his selection status and warrants the benching. I was really excited when we got him, thought he was going to be a mauler, but he certainly hasn’t thus far. I’m still not sure if it’s a mental barrier or physical one, or both. I guess the short arm thing really does hinder you in the NFL. We had convinced ourselves it was a non factor... maybe we should worry about Joes small hands lol

(06-29-2020, 12:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

I haven't listened to it yet, but it does feel like he has given up on Price, perhaps unfairly.  I have come across my share of coaches that have absolute disdain for any athlete that deals with a lot of injuries and is unable to "play through them".  Ross tried to play through injuries his rookie season and that really hurt him.  I am not saying there aren't some creampuffs out there that try to milk injuries for time off practice and then expect to play on game days, but his apparent disdain for Price is alarming.  

(06-30-2020, 08:22 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: X-man is 29 Trey Hopkins is 27 everyone else on the O-line is fairly young Turner is not just looking for 5 starters he needs back ups as well and he likes the guys he has. He could bring in Warford or other O-linemen you guys have mentioned in threads we have the cap room. Turner likes the guys he has now and he thinks they can protect Burrow as well as open holes for Mixon. He mentioned how we tried to use the Rams running game last year at the start and switched later in the year and improved. Which I think they said we finished in 6th place in the run game since we switched it up till the end of the year. If we stay with the same system this year then the O-line should hit the ground running and be vastly improved over the beginning of last year. So he just needs to work on these guys pass protection so Burrow has time to throw the ball. Turner was asked if he was worried about the O-line holding the offense back this year and he said no not at all and neither am I.

Turner also mentioned you need guys that want to win every game and win Super Bowls he said they was guys on the team last year that did not have this mindset and they are gone now.

So, I am assuming John Jerry, John Miller, and Andre Smith won't be getting Christmas Cards from Turner?  

(06-30-2020, 09:01 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Price may be a great trade candidate to dump his salary. I would take a 2023 round 7 pick.

Why would any team want to take on 2 years at almost 7 mil total? That’s way too much for a “project” which is what Price is at this point.