(09-23-2020, 11:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Actually it is 0 games.  This year doesn't count either. 

That's fair.

Everyone knows a rebuild goes like this:

Year 1 - Evaluation year
Year 2 - Evaluation year 2.0
Year 3 - Rebuilding year
Year 4 - Competitive year (7-9 or better)
Year 5 - ????

By 2024 I think we'll finally be able to judge the guy.  But for right now, this is all par for the course.  He gets a pass

(09-23-2020, 11:38 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That's fair.

Everyone knows a rebuild goes like this:

Year 1 - Evaluation year
Year 2 - Evaluation year 2.0
Year 3 - Rebuilding year
Year 4 - Competitive year (7-9 or better)
Year 5 - ????

By 2024 I think we'll finally be able to judge the guy.  But for right now, this is all par for the course.  He gets a pass

Year 6 - Profit 

(09-23-2020, 11:37 AM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: I still don't know what you guys are smoking, that was textbook OPI.

Was not. Go look at the play for one and the DB had both hands around AJ's waist. It was the slightest of push-offs to get some kind of separation from a DB holding him and, again, it's a play that happens 20 times per game minimum in the middle of the field at the 9 minute mark of a quarter that never gets called.

(09-23-2020, 11:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Actually it is 0 games.  This year doesn't count either. 

Zac Taylor is the new Dre Kirkpatrick, getting 4 rookie seasons? Lol

Give him the full season. Four wins or less, send him packing.

The only way I'd let him keep his job in that scenario is if Anarumo and Turner are shown the door and he's required to bring in an actual OC that knows what the **** they're doing.

Zac's eventual downfall will be his refusal to hold his "buddies" accountable that he hired, they have to start performing immediately. He talks about accountability constantly at this point it appears to be just lip-service.

(09-23-2020, 10:43 AM)higgy100 Wrote: You're obtuse. Last year has nothing to do with this year, a new QB and basically a made-up training camp with no pre-season.Take a bad call away 2 weeks ago and this team is 1-1. You still beetching away then?

I would be, because the current scheme is likely to destroy your #1 overall pick...someone we have been waiting for that is finally here and their answer is to throw Fred Johnson and Bobby Hart on the right side and get him killed.  On top of that, throw the ball nearly 100 times in your first two games.  Forget all about that running game being a QBs best friend.

If ZT is fired, who would you want? Someone who got fired? Some DC/OC from another team?

(09-23-2020, 11:37 AM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: I still don't know what you guys are smoking, that was textbook OPI.

It was also textbook non-call/offsetting penalties.

(09-23-2020, 12:03 PM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: If ZT is fired, who would you want? Someone who got fired? Some DC/OC from another team?

I think the ship has sailed on Bieniemy, but I am curious as to why that fell through.  Did Taylor come in and just blow the organization away with his interview, or did the organization and Bieniemy decide it wasn't a good fit?  In any case, OC with actual play-calling experience under Andy Reid.  

I'm also not opposed to Darrin Simmons getting another shot, but I'm usually pretty cagey about in-house hires given that they were a part of previous (failed) cultures.

(09-23-2020, 12:18 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I think the ship has sailed on Bieniemy, but I am curious as to why that fell through.  Did Taylor come in and just blow the organization away with his interview, or did the organization and Bieniemy decide it wasn't a good fit?  In any case, OC with actual play-calling experience under Andy Reid.  

I'm also not opposed to Darrin Simmons getting another shot, but I'm usually pretty cagey about in-house hires given that they were a part of previous (failed) cultures.

I would bet that it was the McVay association, probably lack of other options to be honest as well.

The national media has the same: "we don't really know" opinion that the more positive fans have. From a USA Today article:

Quote:Taylor has been the coach of the Bengals for about 16 months now and I still have yet to form an opinion on him. That’s one of the perks of coaching in Cincinnati, I guess. Well, that will change now that Joe Burrow is there, giving people a reason to pay attention to the Bengals and the job Taylor is doing. I have no reason to think he’s a bad coach at this point but I do believe that developing a highly-drafted quarterback is the ultimate test of a head coach. Get back to me in a year, and I will have a much stronger take on Taylor. I will say this: The Bengals were more competitive in 2019 than their record would have you believe.

I hate how snooty journos are towards smaller market teams, by the way.

Keep drinking the kool aid that all he needs is another year and guys need to get healthy and every other excuse possible. Bottom line winning organizations dont tolerate lackluster performances from the head coach, coordinators, all the way down to players. Its simple, win or get out. Give him 3-4 more years of getting Burrow killed behind a joke of an oline and then complain cause Burrow leaves town for a 1/3 of the money.

(09-23-2020, 11:37 AM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: I still don't know what you guys are smoking, that was textbook OPI.

No.  Absolutely not.  AJ was trying to get away from the DB who had a death grip on him while the ball was in the air.  If there was any call at all, it should have been defensive holding.

Two games into the second season is WAY too early to talk about firing all the coaches.

But two full seasons is PLENTY of time to make that decision. Especially after the biggest free agent binge in team history and the addition of two first round draft picks including the #1 overall pick.

The lack of preseason with all the new players may effect the teams final record, but we should definitely be able to see large improvements as the season plays out. If our final record doe not look good due to a slow start I might give Taylor another year. But the team would have to look very good at the end of the season for that. We end the year with four strong teams (Dallas, Pitt, Houston, and Baltimore). We have to be beating some of those teams to justify brining him back.

Those looking for a house cleaning any time soon are most likely in for a big disappointment.

(09-23-2020, 11:49 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Give him the full season.  Four wins or less, send him packing.

The only way I'd let him keep his job in that scenario is if Anarumo and Turner are shown the door and he's required to bring in an actual OC that knows what the **** they're doing.

An OC who knows what he is doing agreeing to serve under a 6-26 HC in ZT is hard to picture.  Im just not so sure he turned down decent coordinators before he hired his lackluster pals. These guys may be the best he could dig up and having another ghastly season isn't likely to build his stock among the talented and unemployed.

(09-23-2020, 02:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: An OC who knows what he is doing agreeing to serve under a 6-26 HC in ZT is hard to picture.  Im just not so sure he turned down decent coordinators before he hired his lackluster pals.  These guys may be the best he could dig up and having another ghastly season isn't likely to build his stock among the talented and unemployed.

Yup.

Most coordinators are looking at the job as an opportunity to spring board into a HC job.  Attaching yourself to this coach may kill your career aspirations.

Not to mention the fact that with Taylor currently calling plays he clearly considers himself a compentent OC.  Even if he were to hand over the duties to someone else, I have a feeling they'd be scared off by him wanting to meddle or give his opinion on every single thing.

If I'm OC/DC under the age of 55, I'm not touching Zac Taylor with a 10ft pole.  You could find yourself coaching QB's, or being the OC at Colorado St. in the future, through no fault of your own.  You just hitched your wagon to an absolute loser.

(09-23-2020, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Two games into the second season is WAY too early to talk about firing all the coaches.

But two full seasons is PLENTY of time to make that decision.  Especially after the biggest free agent binge in team history and the addition of two first round draft picks including the #1 overall pick.

The lack of preseason with all the new players may effect the teams final record, but we should definitely be able to see large improvements as the season plays out.  If our final record doe not look good due to a slow start I might give Taylor another year.  But the team would have to look very good at the end of the season for that.  We end the year with four strong teams (Dallas, Pitt, Houston, and Baltimore).  We have to be beating some of those teams to justify brining him back.

That's the "good" thing about this year. I don't see a way for a dead cat bounce that would trick anyone into thinking the finish was good. Either they will be better and compete or they will lose most if not all those games, if they still have the same problems. 

(09-23-2020, 11:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Bill Walsh, who in the two years before getting the 49ers job ('77 and '78) won two bowl games as the HC of Stanford? Also had Stanford finished ranked in the teens in the AP polls both years. Even though Stanford hadn't been to a bowl game OR finish ranked any of the 5 years prior?

You're trying to compare guys who had success prior to their jobs against Zac Taylor, who simply hasn't had success anywhere. Taylor has NO time in his coaching history where he can point and go "see, I can do this, I know what I am doing" like the two examples you've tried to make.

You're clearly missing my point. Those guys started off poorly and were not fired after 2 games in their 2nd season and ended up having great careers. While Zac most likely will never get to that level, the fact remains that it's stupid to call for his firing after his 2nd game of his 2nd season as HC. It doesn't matter their backgrounds prior to HC.

Sure, at the end of this season if we're like 4-12 or something, then you may want to consider his background in deciding to give him one more season, but after game 2 of season 2? I'm sorry, that's just dumb. 

(09-23-2020, 11:49 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Give him the full season. Four wins or less, send him packing.

The only way I'd let him keep his job in that scenario is if Anarumo and Turner are shown the door and he's required to bring in an actual OC that knows what the **** they're doing.

Those two should have been fired after last Tuesday’s debacle, without question