(11-30-2020, 12:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're correct, I did word my post deliberately strong.  I see people pointing out Sample's stats, and comparing them to other TE's in the league, without any sort of correlating info to show how often the TE is targeted in the Bengals' offense, compared to the offenses of teams with "elite" TE numbers.

While I still see Sample as a reach, according to where he was drafted, I do not think that he's a terrible player.  I think he is underutilized in an offense that funnels the vast majority of it's passes to the WRs.

That goes back to the question why the hell did we take a TE in the 2nd then?

(11-30-2020, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true unless you claim that everyone who is not top 20 at their position in the NFL "sucks".

Drew Sample stats through first 10 weeks: https://fantasyfootballers.org/te-tight-end-nfl-stats/

--Receptions ---------------28th (22 receptions)
--Receving Yards ----------30th (212 yards)
--Yards per Reception ----60th (9.64)
--Long -----------------------58th (22 yards)
--TD's-------------------------71st (Dead last)

Now, take all these numbers, and account for the fact he's in the top 10 for total snaps, and routes run (more opportunies).

Do you think calling him "not top 20" is a little ridiculous?  Not only is he not "top 20", he's not top 30.  And he's not even top 30 even though he's top 10 in usage.

Describing Drew Sample as not top 20 is like descrbing a Dodge Neon as not a 50k dollar car.  While technically correctly, you're not accurately describing a Dodge Neon.  

(11-30-2020, 12:08 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Who said he had to save the team?

Why can't we criticize those that deserve criticism?  I don't think you'll find many people criticizing Sample that aren't also criticizing the OL.  It's not as if they're randomly ignoring problems while focusing on others.

And crucify is a strong word choice.  I haven't seen anyone blaming him for the loss, or the season, or saying that he's our biggest weakness.  What they are saying is that he stinks, which he does.

He isn't great by any stretch.  At the same time, you realize he is as good or better than most of our WR's in catch % and yards per target?  If he's a bum that deserves a call out thread, then it's frankly pathetic that as a TE he's outproducing most of our WR corps.

(11-30-2020, 01:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: He isn't great by any stretch.  At the same time, you realize he is as good or better than most of our WR's in catch % and yards per target?  If he's a bum that deserves a call out thread, then it's frankly pathetic that as a TE he's outproducing most of our WR corps.

Our WR’s not not named Tee or Tyler suck, too. And we definitely need upgrades. I think Sample is just more of an issue for me because he’s the clear #1, and still doesn’t produce.

(11-30-2020, 01:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Our WR’s not not named Tee or Tyler suck, too. And we definitely need upgrades. I think Sample is just more of an issue for me because he’s the clear #1, and still doesn’t produce.

He's not the #1, though.  Uzomah is.

Was he overdrafted?  Yes.  Is it his fault he was overdrafted?  No.  If he was picked in the 4th-5th round like he was projected, nobody would be hating on him.

(11-30-2020, 01:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: He isn't great by any stretch.  At the same time, you realize he is as good or better than most of our WR's in catch % and yards per target?  If he's a bum that deserves a call out thread, then it's frankly pathetic that as a TE he's outproducing most of our WR corps.

He's a checkdown target.  I would expect his catch % to be extremely high.  His average reception, before yards after catch, is only 5.2 yards. 

How in anyway is outproudcing most of our receiving corp?

He's 5th in receiving yards (behind Gio), and is only ahead of Tate and Mixon because they've seen well less total usage.

He's 8th on the team in yards per reception.  He's ahead of John Ross, Alex Erikson, Cethan Carter, and the running backs.

He's 5th on the team in receptions.  The only players he's ahead of our guys who have missed time. He's dead last in players who have played in all 11 games.

He's tied for dead last on the team in TD's, with zero. 

He's 7th in receiving yards per game.

I'd love for you to specifically tell me which receivers he's outproducing?  John Ross?

(11-30-2020, 01:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: He's not the #1, though.  Uzomah is.

Was he overdrafted?  Yes.  Is it his fault he was overdrafted?  No.  If he was picked in the 4th-5th round like he was projected, nobody would be hating on him.

He’s been the #1 since week 2. Just like last year when Tate and Erickson put up better numbers when they were given the opportunity. Sample hasn’t.

(11-30-2020, 01:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: Was he overdrafted?  Yes.  Is it his fault he was overdrafted?  No.  If he was picked in the 4th-5th round like he was projected, nobody would be hating on him.

If he was drafted in the 4th I would definitely still be hating on him.  He's got late round pick written all over him.  

Dogging on Sample is like when your wife is mad about something but brings up an argument from years ago.

Fan is mad about crappy team with injured franchise QB:
“Remember that time we drafted this guy in the 2nd round?”

Wife is mad about crappy marriage and something guy did:
“Remember that time you bought that boat without talking to me first?!”

There are so many other issues with this team. Sample hasn’t been anything more than average on his best day, but he isn’t the one tanking this team either. When it comes to receiving threats he’s prob #3 behind Boyd and Higgins. Let that sink in.

(11-30-2020, 01:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If he was drafted in the 4th I would definitely still be hating on him.  He's got late round pick written all over him.  

Yep. In a world where George Kittle was drafted in the 5th round, Sample in the 4th still wouldn’t feel like particularly good value.

(11-30-2020, 01:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: At the same time, you realize he is as good or better than most of our WR's in catch % and yards per target? 

Not sure where you're getting this stat from:

Receivers with a higher YPT:

Higgins
Uzomah
Boyd
Thomas
Tate (tie)

Receivers with lower YPT:

Carter
Erikson
Green

So he's better than our 3rd sting TE, who's been target a total of 5 times, our punt returner that's started 0 games and has been targeted 3 times, and AJ Green, whose YPT is extremely low because he's targeted an ungodly amount for how much he stinks, which brings his average down.

(11-30-2020, 01:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Dogging on Sample is like when your wife is mad about something but brings up an argument from years ago.

Fan is mad about crappy team with injured franchise QB:
“Remember that time we drafted this guy in the 2nd round?”

Wife is mad about crappy marriage and something guy did:
“Remember that time you bought that boat without talking to me first?!”

There are so many other issues with this team. Sample hasn’t been anything more than average on his best day, but he isn’t the one tanking this team either. When it comes to receiving threats he’s prob #3 behind Boyd and Higgins. Let that sink in.

Nonsense. I bumped the thread because I saw he had a big fumble in a close game. It’s that simple.

(11-30-2020, 01:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. In a world where George Kittle was drafted in the 5th round, Sample in the 4th still wouldn’t feel like particularly good value.

This argument is absurd.  Allow me to demonstrate.

"In a world where Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round Joe Burrow was a waste of a first round pick."

(11-30-2020, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This argument is absurd.  Allow me to demonstrate.

"In a world where Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round Joe Burrow was a waste of a first round pick."

Here, have several other examples:

Travis Kelce - 3rd round
Tyler Higbee - 4th round
Jared Cook - 3rd round
Darren Waller - 6th round
Mark Andrews - 3rd round

You can get a much better TE than Drew Sample in the mid-late rounds.

(11-30-2020, 01:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here, have several other examples:

Travis Kelce - 3rd round
Tyler Higbee - 4th round
Jared Cook - 3rd round
Darren Waller - 6th round
Mark Andrews - 3rd round

You can get a much better TE than Drew Sample in the mid-late rounds.

I'll add the kid from Green Bay, who's been looking pretty good this year.

Robert Tonyan - Undrafted

He's got 37 receptions, with 458 yards receiving and 7 TD's, in only 8 starts this season.

What about our own CJ Uzomah, who is far from great, but sill much better than Sample?

Uzomah - 5th round

Greatly outplayed Sample in the same exact offense.  Averaged more than double the yards per game, and managed to score a TD in  1.75 games played this season.

(11-30-2020, 01:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nonsense. I bumped the thread because I saw he had a big fumble in a close game. It’s that simple.

So you didn’t watch the game, just saw the guy had a fumble and wanted to make a stink about it lol.

Drew Sample accounted for 23% of our total yards yesterday, LMAO! and that isn’t a statement about how good Sample is, that’s a testament to how terrible this offense is without its starters.

(11-30-2020, 01:42 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Not sure where you're getting this stat from:

Receivers with a higher YPT:

Higgins
Uzomah
Boyd
Thomas
Tate (tie)

Receivers with lower YPT:

Carter
Erikson
Green

So he's better than our 3rd sting TE, who's been target a total of 5 times, our punt returner that's started 0 games and has been targeted 3 times, and AJ Green, whose YPT is extremely low because he's targeted an ungodly amount for how much he stinks, which brings his average down.

Seriously? Uzomah isn't a WR.  You also left out Ross and Erickson, who are below him in both categories.  If he's worse than Tee, Boyd, and Thomas, tied with Tate, and better than AJ, Erickson, and Ross, he is as good or better than half the WR's on the roster by definition.

What's funny is that as a TE, he has the same YPT and a better catch % than Tate, but Tate gets hyped to no end while he gets buried.

(11-30-2020, 01:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here, have several other examples:

Travis Kelce - 3rd round
Tyler Higbee - 4th round
Jared Cook - 3rd round
Darren Waller - 6th round
Mark Andrews - 3rd round

You can get a much better TE than Drew Sample in the mid-late rounds.

Drew Brees......2nd round
Russell Wilson..3rd round
Kirk Cousins.....4th round
Dak Prescott...4th round


You can get a better QB than Joe Burrow much later than the first overall pick

(11-30-2020, 02:03 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'll add the kid from Green Bay, who's been looking pretty good this year.

Robert Tonyan - Undrafted

He's got 37 receptions, with 458 yards receiving and 7 TD's, in only 8 starts this season.

What about our own CJ Uzomah, who is far from great, but sill much better than Sample?

Uzomah - 5th round

Greatly outplayed Sample in the same exact offense.  Averaged more than double the yards per game, and managed to score a TD in  1.75 games played this season.

That’s the biggest indictment of Sample right there honestly.

(11-30-2020, 02:05 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: So you didn’t watch the game, just saw the guy had a fumble and wanted to make a stink about it lol.

Drew Sample accounted for 23% of our total yards yesterday, LMAO! and that isn’t a statement about how good Sample is, that’s a testament to how terrible this offense is without its starters.

What’s the excuse for the other 9 games he’s been the starter?