I picked undecided...

What he needs is a true big name GM with a history of success. Hopefully this would lead to a new veteran play caller on defense with some real NFL experience. If these things happened I’d be willing to see what another year brings. But because I know this will never happen I picked undecided.

No, initially I thought he deserved a full three years but he has shown me in my opinion that he isn’t a leader as a head coach. Turner and Lou should be gone and they’re not. This is something he should’ve addressed by now and his lack of response is failed leadership in bringing this team forward.

(12-02-2020, 01:35 AM)OUatown Wrote: Drew Sample second round. Traded up for Ryan Finley in the 4th... Doubt he has a job after he gets cut from cincy

I think he’ll have to settle for going back to being a position coach tbh. I can’t see many teams even being interested in him as an OC. His offense is atrocious (at every stop) unless he has Joe Burrow running it.

(12-01-2020, 07:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Taylor is given a 3rd year, what's the minimum number of wins he has to get to stay in your opinion?

My number is 8.

Yes, I would be at 8 or above as well.

I think it would take a miracle to win 8 games next season. Especially if Burrow misses time, and has another season of no OTA’s, preseason, etc.

(12-02-2020, 01:30 AM)OUatown Wrote: Please explain what he has done that makes you think he will be a great coach? Riding the Mcvey train? His impressive year as OC at UC?

I look at how things have gone since he has been here, outside the win/loss record. His first draft was not that great:
Williams- hit
Sample-meh ( I say meh because while I think he is a good blocking TE, his draft position was too high)
Pratt- may still turn into something
Finley- sucks
Wren- opted out his second season, so who knows
Jordan- sucks
T. Williams- sucks cause he's always hurt
D. Davis- sucks
R. Anderson- sucks
J. Brown- who even it this.
So really, we got Williams, who was hurt his whole rookie season

Seemed like we could barely put points on the board that season. Defense was historically bad. Andy is benched to look at Finley, who sucks, so back to Dalton. Even with that, 10 of those losses were within 7 points.

Taylor's second draft :
Joe Burrow- Hit
Tee Higgins-Hit
Logan Wilson- Hit
AD Gaither- still developing
Khalid Kareem- yet to be determined
Hakeem Adeniji- Hit
Markus Bailey-question mark

So his 2nd draft was much better than his first. Then we have Covid issues with Training Camp, and players opting out. Glasgow's knee did not heal, Topou opts out, Wren opts out, Atkins injures his shoulder in the last scrimmage- the DT position is decimated, AJ shows he's no longer AJ, Ross continues to be Ross. Of course we lose Burrow.( If that hadn't happened, I think we get some more wins at the end of the season, albeit they may have been against teams with losing records.) Mike Brown signs an unprecedented (that I can remember) number of high end free agents to help the horrible defense from 2019:

DJ Reader
Trae Waynes
Mackenzie Alexander
Vonn Bell
Mike Daniels
Josh Bynes

Of course, Waynes never saw the field with a torn pec, Reader was injured early in the season and is out for the remainder. Daniels misses games with a groin injury Alexander gets concussed. But the fact that these FA's have been injured doesn't mean they weren't signed to address the problems. You can say Taylor had nothing to do with it, but it hardly ever happened before he got here.

He also signs help for the Offensive Line in XFS and claimed Isaiah Prince. Prince opted out for Covid, and XFS was hurt in the first game, although he was rated our best lineman that game. Again, XFS being hurt does not negate the fact he was brought in, along with Prince, to try to address the guard position. 

So then we sign Spain, who has been a Godsend and has played RG, LG, RT so far and has played them all at a high level. How the freak did Buffalo let this guy go? He's been a Pro's Pro and is reportedly trying to help guys like Jordan get better. 


Bengals tie the Eagles, beat the Jaguars (meh) but also beat the Titans, who are a playoff team.

Taylor also sends a message that lack of effort will not go unnoticed and that no one's starting position is guaranteed by seniority or draft position. If you dog it out there, you will be benched. 


So yes, I see improvement enough to give him his 3rd year. You can say his getting hired late his first year, and Covid cancelling many pre-season activities his 2nd year, the rash of injuries to our FA's brought in to address positions of need, etc., are excuses, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. Does anyone really think the defense would be as bad as it's been had a healthy Geno lined up next to a healthy Reader and the backfield consisted of Waynes, Alexander and Jackson III? Does anyone really think our offensive line would have been so offensive had XFS remained healthy enough to fill a guard position and it would have been Williams, Spain, Hopkins, XFS and Hart? 

These are all factors that included a lot of bad luck. People want Anarumo gone. I think he should go as well. People want Turner gone. I could really give 2 craps about him, replace him, although I'm not sure any line coach could have done a better job with the constant injury rotation that has taken place on the line this year. But bring someone else in. 

And, I've said all along I think ZT should give up on play calling and give that over to the OC. While many people complain about Taylor's play calling, we have seen that when the line holds up long enough for a play to actually develop, it's actually not that bad. But, I think he should give it up and focus on being a HC. He has a chance for another Home Run draft, and if he can get Katie to sign a couple more Free Agents (Thuney) I think this will be a totally different team in year 3. If not, then I'm out on him. 

Logan Wilson and Adeniji are “hits?” Seems like they should both be in the “still developing” category to me. Neither have shown enough to be penciled in as automatic starters like Burrow and Tee.

(12-02-2020, 10:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Logan Wilson and Adeniji are “hits?” Seems like they should both be in the “still developing” category to me. Neither have shown enough to be penciled in as automatic starters like Burrow and Tee.

OK, maybe we are using different metrics for "hit". I think Adenii has shown enough that he will at least be a quality depth guy who may develop into a starter, which for a 6th rd pick I think is a hit. Logan Wilson has shown me a lot his rookie season and I have no doubt he will be a quality starting linebacker, even if he is still developing. It's their rookie season, so sure they are still developing.

(12-02-2020, 10:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote: OK, maybe we are using different metrics for "hit". I think Adenii has shown enough that he will at least be a quality depth guy who may develop into a starter, which for a 6th rd pick I think is a hit. Logan Wilson has shown me a lot his rookie season and I have no doubt he will be a quality starting linebacker, even if he is still developing. It's their rookie season, so sure they are still developing.

Wilson's been ok in coverage and I noticed him on a handful of pressures on the QB, but he's been bad against the run. All the LBs have.
I agree with Adeniji. He's shown enough to stick on the roster as a developmental depth guy even if the Bengals add new OL in the offseason.

(12-01-2020, 10:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: and where was that scheme getting us? to .500? 0 and done in the playoffs??
It was good but not good enough. 

And with those lovely final drafts we had under Marvin, it was a good a time as any to throw out the baby and the bath water and start fresh, and that's what's happening, over the course of the next 2 more years, there will probably not be hardly anyone left on the team that was here prior to last year.

You're absolutely right, but I'd take those Marvin years over the garbage Zac Taylor years.
While it was frustrating losing in the playoffs, at least we were interested through a majority of the season because there was actually a good chance to make the postseason.
With Taylor, I stopped watching last year in October. This year I stopped when Burrow went down.

(12-02-2020, 01:35 AM)OUatown Wrote: Drew Sample second round. Traded up for Ryan Finley in the 4th... Doubt he has a job after he gets cut from cincy

I think that was a rushed draft for him, didn't he finally get his coaching staff secured a a week or two before the draft?

Not only that, Tobin was still involved, and if so, then i think Tobin is more at fault for this draft than ZT. Tobin is not a newbie at running/participating in the Draft. Either that or our scouts have no ballz. 

(12-02-2020, 11:47 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think that was a rushed draft for him, didn't he finally get his coaching staff secured a a week or two before the draft?

Not only that, Tobin was still involved, and if so, then i think Tobin is more at fault for this draft than ZT. Tobin is not a newbie at running/participating in the Draft. Either that or our scouts have no ballz. 

Right. Again, look at his 2nd draft as opposed to his first. Huge leap forward IMO. I expect another good draft this year.

(12-02-2020, 11:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Right. Again, look at his 2nd draft as opposed to his first. Huge leap forward IMO. I expect another good draft this year.

Having the #1OA (and first pick in subsequent rounds) certainly helps...

(12-02-2020, 11:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Having the #1OA (and first pick in subsequent rounds) certainly helps...

It does, more so in the first round, less so in the later rounds. We should pick 3rd this year, so we should get the cream of the crop in 1 (Sewell) and do well in rounds 2 and 3. The rest are all a crap shoot.

"No" is the only choice. Zac speaks empty rhetoric, "Culture building" & has one of the historically worst coaching records of all time.

Zac is 367th on this list:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

Cya Zac!

A definitive hard NO! The sooner we get competent coaching the better. Joe Burrow was the concensus number one pick for QB needy teams. Tee Higgins was rated as a first round pick. Taylor and his regime deserve zero credit for either of those picks. My 12 yo nephew could have made those picks.

Zac has earned his abysmal record and should wear it like a scarlet letter. Bye, Felicia!

I'd probably change my vote to yes if the Bengals won their last 5 games. We might beat the Cowboys, but Dalton will likely ball out just to stick it in ZT's ass, so I doubt it.

You can't stay if you can't win.

(12-02-2020, 10:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Seemed like we could barely put points on the board that season. Defense was historically bad. Andy is benched to look at Finley, who sucks, so back to Dalton. Even with that, 10 of those losses were within 7 points.

I'm going to put a slightly different spin on this in that last year and this year if the team was good enough to stay within 7 points a good head coach finds a way to win a number of those games. 
He has done nothing that I've seen that any marginally competent head coach wouldn't have in terms of drafting, etc. But he hasn't been able to find a way to win close games and really has shown nothing that I've seen that says this will change.

(12-02-2020, 03:01 PM)R3stangs Wrote: I'm going to put a slightly different spin on this in that last year and this year if the team was good enough to stay within 7 points a good head coach finds a way to win a number of those games. 
He has done nothing that I've seen that any marginally competent head coach wouldn't have in terms of drafting, etc. But he hasn't been able to find a way to win close games and really has shown nothing that I've seen that says this will change.

Even if Zac is able to win one more game, he'll still finish his first 2 years with a .171 winning %. Other than John McKay with the expansion Buc's, what team during the SB era has ever brought back a head coach with a sub .200 win % for a 3rd year?

I thought it was insane when Mike gave Shula a 2 year extension after going 8-24, but bringing Zac back would top that, IMO.