I would argue this year's tackle class as not as good as last year. Last year six went in the first round.

It doesn't mean this is a bad class. I would consider Sewell, Slater, Leatherwood, and Mayfield as first rounders.

(12-15-2020, 02:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: Honest question.  How would you compare this T class to the 2019 T class?  

I think this class is better. Sewell is probably the top guy on paper in either class. For me it's the depth of this class that is really impressive, some people have Eichenburg has their Tackle 7 or 8 (I have him as 2) but the point is most agree he can come in and be a solid starting NFL tackle potentially year 1. Hell, Dillon Radunz of NDSU was getting top 10 hype before their season got cut down to just 1 game and he is a lot of people's Tackle 10-12 right now.

I am fully confident a starting-level tackle can be had this year on day 2, which is why I REALLY want to trade down a bit and get a pass rusher in round 1, or Kyle Pitts because he could be a Travis Kelce type of weapon to our offense. All that said, I have watched Sewell, Little, Radunz and Slater tape from last year and Eichenberg and Cosmi tape from this year. I need to do more Mayfield, Leatherwood, and a few others still.

(12-15-2020, 03:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think this class is better. Sewell is probably the top guy on paper in either class. For me it's the depth of this class that is really impressive, some people have Eichenburg has their Tackle 7 or 8 (I have him as 2) but the point is most agree he can come in and be a solid starting NFL tackle potentially year 1. Hell, Dillon Radunz of NDSU was getting top 10 hype before their season got cut down to just 1 game and he is a lot of people's Tackle 10-12 right now.

I am fully confident a starting-level tackle can be had this year on day 2, which is why I REALLY want to trade down a bit and get a pass rusher in round 1, or Kyle Pitts because he could be a Travis Kelce type of weapon to our offense. All that said, I have watched Sewell, Little, Radunz and Slater tape from last year and Eichenberg and Cosmi tape from this year. I need to do more Mayfield, Leatherwood, and a few others still.

I'm big fans of Sewell, Darrisaw, Eichenburg, Radunz, and Carman. 

Mayfield was up and down and injured this year so he's iffy. I don't like Sam Cosmi as a front side run blocker...And I hate everything about Walker Little lol.

I hope Radunz is at the Senior Bowl.

(12-15-2020, 03:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think this class is better. Sewell is probably the top guy on paper in either class. For me it's the depth of this class that is really impressive, some people have Eichenburg has their Tackle 7 or 8 (I have him as 2) but the point is most agree he can come in and be a solid starting NFL tackle potentially year 1. Hell, Dillon Radunz of NDSU was getting top 10 hype before their season got cut down to just 1 game and he is a lot of people's Tackle 10-12 right now.

I am fully confident a starting-level tackle can be had this year on day 2, which is why I REALLY want to trade down a bit and get a pass rusher in round 1, or Kyle Pitts because he could be a Travis Kelce type of weapon to our offense. All that said, I have watched Sewell, Little, Radunz and Slater tape from last year and Eichenberg and Cosmi tape from this year. I need to do more Mayfield, Leatherwood, and a few others still.

Personally, I'm not that confident that a day one starter can be found on day 2, or at least a solid one.  That's why I asked about the '19 class, because the only day 1 or 2 OT starter that was decent was Taylor.  

I think if we're going this way, you need 2 quality OL upgrades in FA, and not Spain/XSF type guys, either.  

(12-15-2020, 03:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: Personally, I'm not that confident that a day one starter can be found on day 2, or at least a solid one.  That's why I asked about the '19 class, because the only day 1 or 2 OT starter that was decent was Taylor.  

I think if we're going this way, you need 2 quality OL upgrades in FA, and not Spain/XSF type guys, either.  

Let's put it this way, last year everyone didn't really start talking about Willis from Bama until Leatherwood went back. Leatherwood may actually be a late 1st early 2nd type player this year. I personally think Sewell, Slater, Eichenberg, Radunz, Darrisaw, and Carmen are all better which means it Leatherwood could end up the 7th tackle and a 2nd round pick.

If you end up with an elite rusher, Leatherwood, and another 2nd round pick and maybe a 4th for instance you have to feel really good about such a move.

(12-15-2020, 03:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: Personally, I'm not that confident that a day one starter can be found on day 2, or at least a solid one.  That's why I asked about the '19 class, because the only day 1 or 2 OT starter that was decent was Taylor.  

I think if we're going this way, you need 2 quality OL upgrades in FA, and not Spain/XSF type guys, either.  

So you are saying out of the top 64 to 96 picks of an entire College Draft we won;t find a starter with a team the quality of the Bengals ??

We need to build in the draft.. FA is way overrated and costly especially when you have so many holes and know we are looking at a rebuild of a couple years.. why waste $$ on a FA that will be gone in 2 years.  This year we need to build in the draft.. 

(12-15-2020, 03:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: Let's put it this way, last year everyone didn't really start talking about Willis from Bama until Leatherwood went back. Leatherwood may actually be a late 1st early 2nd type player this year. I personally think Sewell, Slater, Eichenberg, Radunz, Darrisaw, and Carmen are all better which means it Leatherwood could end up the 7th tackle and a 2nd round pick.

If you end up with an elite rusher, Leatherwood, and another 2nd round pick and maybe a 4th for instance you have to feel really good about such a move.

I don't think you're getting an elite edge in the 1st in this class unless you get very lucky. Honestly, I think the cost to retain Lawson is being overestimated.  PFF recently released their Top 50 FA's, which contains 6 edges and he isn't one of them. 

If we had passed on Munuz and traded back we could have had Brad Budde and Angelo Fields!!!!

(12-15-2020, 04:44 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So you are saying out of the top 64 to 96 picks of an entire College Draft we won;t find a starter with a team the quality of the Bengals ??

We need to build in the draft.. FA is way overrated and costly especially when you have so many holes and know we are looking at a rebuild of a couple years.. why waste $$ on a FA that will be gone in 2 years.  This year we need to build in the draft.. 

We have a QB coming off a torn ACL.  We cannot afford to wait on a learning curve on rookies.  The '19 draft I cited was considered a very strong T draft.  Jawaan Taylor was the highest rated by PFF as a rookie and he only graded out at like 63.  The rest were in the 50's. I am not against drafting OL on day one or two.  I am against gambling Burrow's health by betting against the odds and thinking a Day 2 T is going to be any kind of upgrade.

(12-15-2020, 06:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think you're getting an elite edge in the 1st in this class unless you get very lucky. Honestly, I think the cost to retain Lawson is being overestimated.  PFF recently released their Top 50 FA's, which contains 6 edges and he isn't one of them. 

I like a lot of the edge guys in the middle of the 1st but none are “can’t miss” guys like we have seen recently. Lawson will get paid because of a cross section of age and skill. Most the pass rushing edge guys this year are older where as Lawson provides long term upside.

(12-15-2020, 02:58 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I would argue this year's tackle class as not as good as last year.  Last year six went in the first round.  

It doesn't mean this is a bad class.  I would consider Sewell, Slater, Leatherwood, and Mayfield as first rounders.

Yet only one OT, the LT for the Browns picked at #10 from Alabama has started every game in 2020. So sounds like 5 are still learning and may or may not be all they were drafted in round 1 to be.

(12-15-2020, 06:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: I like a lot of the edge guys in the middle of the 1st but none are “can’t miss” guys like we have seen recently. Lawson will get paid because of a cross section of age and skill. Most the pass rushing edge guys this year are older where as Lawson provides long term upside.

Lawson slid in the draft due to multiple torn ACL's and tore another one his 2nd year here.  After that, he's had trouble finishing, which indicates injuries have cost him a step. I could be wrong, but I don't see anybody backing up the Brink's truck with his production and injury history.  

(12-15-2020, 06:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: Lawson slid in the draft due to multiple torn ACL's and tore another one his 2nd year here.  After that, he's had trouble finishing, which indicates injuries have cost him a step. I could be wrong, but I don't see anybody backing up the Brink's truck with his production and injury history.  

Any analytics team will. Sacks are often a misleading stat so most teams don’t look at it because who gets the finish isn’t often who disrupts the play, it is the pressure that analytics people tend to look at. He is one of the top pressure generators in the league and on any team with any interior rush at all that would easily convert to big team sack numbers.

(12-15-2020, 08:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: Any analytics team will. Sacks are often a misleading stat so most teams don’t look at it because who gets the finish isn’t often who disrupts the play, it is the pressure that analytics people tend to look at. He is one of the top pressure generators in the league and on any team with any interior rush at all that would easily convert to big team sack numbers.

I'll ask the question I always ask: Who determines that the QB was pressured? 

(12-15-2020, 09:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll ask the question I always ask: Who determines that the QB was pressured? 

The person scoring the game, similar to errors in baseball. Pressure stats can differ slightly by service but usually they are pretty close.

(12-15-2020, 03:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think this class is better. Sewell is probably the top guy on paper in either class. For me it's the depth of this class that is really impressive, some people have Eichenburg has their Tackle 7 or 8 (I have him as 2) but the point is most agree he can come in and be a solid starting NFL tackle potentially year 1. Hell, Dillon Radunz of NDSU was getting top 10 hype before their season got cut down to just 1 game and he is a lot of people's Tackle 10-12 right now.

I am fully confident a starting-level tackle can be had this year on day 2, which is why I REALLY want to trade down a bit and get a pass rusher in round 1, or Kyle Pitts because he could be a Travis Kelce type of weapon to our offense. All that said, I have watched Sewell, Little, Radunz and Slater tape from last year and Eichenberg and Cosmi tape from this year. I need to do more Mayfield, Leatherwood, and a few others still.

The idea of getting Pitts for Burrow is extremely enticing to me. If we did trade back with Sewell still on the board it would be one of the only scenarios I wouldn’t mind too much.

(12-15-2020, 06:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yet only one OT, the LT for the Browns picked at #10 from Alabama has started every game in 2020. So sounds like 5 are still learning and may or may not be all they were drafted in round 1 to be.

Wirfs went #13, and has been an absolute stud.

(12-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: We have a QB coming off a torn ACL.  We cannot afford to wait on a learning curve on rookies.  The '19 draft I cited was considered a very strong T draft.  Jawaan Taylor was the highest rated by PFF as a rookie and he only graded out at like 63.  The rest were in the 50's. I am not against drafting OL on day one or two.  I am against gambling Burrow's health by betting against the odds and thinking a Day 2 T is going to be any kind of upgrade.

Again you act like there is only round 1 and done.. that is not the case in the NFL... learning curve ??  This team is not going to be playoff ready next year.. Burrow is not franchise ready yet especially with a recovery that is going to set him back plus he missed 2/3s of the season this year.. so he is still on a learning curve also, he needs to improve getting rid of ball and moving better out of pocket.. also it is the NFL .. QBs get hurt all the time... Dallas invested heavy in Oline and Dak got hurt... Steelers invested heavy in Oline and Ben got hurt... i don;t want a revolving door of FA lineman that are gone in 2 or 3 years when we would start turning the team around... this team needs more draft picks.. if we can get 5 to 6 picks in top 120 that is the way to go.  We need way more than Burrow to win...

(12-15-2020, 11:56 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Again you act like there is only round 1 and done.. that is not the case in the NFL... learning curve ??  This team is not going to be playoff ready next year.. Burrow is not franchise ready yet especially with a recovery that is going to set him back plus he missed 2/3s of the season this year.. so he is still on a learning curve also, he needs to improve getting rid of ball and moving better out of pocket.. also it is the NFL .. QBs get hurt all the time...  Dallas invested heavy in Oline and Dak got hurt...  Steelers invested heavy in Oline and Ben got hurt...  i don;t want a revolving door of FA lineman that are gone in 2 or 3 years when we would start turning the team around... this team needs more draft picks.. if we can get 5 to 6 picks in top 120 that is the way to go.  We need way more than Burrow to win...

You act like you can't sign FA's to the same 4 years draft picks are signed to.  You can even sign them for longer than that if they agree.  Do you think guys like Thuney or Scherff are going to sign 2-3 year deals? 

If you want to throw Burrow out there behind an OL filled with typical Bengal bargain bin FA's and a couple of rookie 2nd day picks, then I don't know what to tell you at this point.  

You take any potential trade into consideration.  With the cap going down, you're highly unlikely to run into the kind of bidding war scenario that's going to yield the king's ransom of picks you're talking about, though.  What are you going to do with our salary cap space?  Overpay to keep Lawson, WJIII, and Spain?  

(12-15-2020, 08:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: Any analytics team will. Sacks are often a misleading stat so most teams don’t look at it because who gets the finish isn’t often who disrupts the play, it is the pressure that analytics people tend to look at. He is one of the top pressure generators in the league and on any team with any interior rush at all that would easily convert to big team sack numbers.

We were the same 28th in sacks in '18 when he missed most of the year as we were in '19 when he returned with almost the same DL around him.

And again, that was PFF's Top 50, and they're the biggest name analytics site out there.