(12-16-2020, 02:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 2.) Why would he take a lesser amount here, when he could he refuse, hit free agency, and sign a comparable deal elsewhere?

Lot's of reasons to stay here instead of signing a comparable deal elsewhere. Mainly taxes and cost of living. Go to someplace like NY, LA, or any other major city and that's going to eat a lot of money. Players at places like Cincy have to pay those extremely high taxes when they play in those places, but they get 8 games in Cincy where they don't.

No one likes to be in the thick of a lost decade, but it didn't take this long last time to recognize it.

Back to back 2 win seasons given the rarity of 2 win seasons even under MB should be more telling then what it seems to be.

But this is a new generation who may not have lived it before.

Let's put it this way, we have a number of 8-8 seasons to get to (and celebrate) before we pull out of this. And we are far from that milestone.

When we hover around 8-8 and then take the steps to get over that hump, we will be digging out of this lost decade. Maybe that'll help with the reality of where we are.

(12-16-2020, 03:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lot's of reasons to stay here instead of signing a comparable deal elsewhere. Mainly taxes and cost of living. Go to someplace like NY, LA, or any other major city and that's going to eat a lot of money. Players at places like Cincy have to pay those extremely high taxes when they play in those places, but they get 8 games in Cincy where they don't.

Yeah, but that argument only works against higher cost of living cities.

Here are some teams I can think of, with comparable cost of living:

Kansas City
Pittsburgh
Green Bay
Buffalo
Cleveland
Indianapolis


Here are some more, who I'm unsure of, but I know they're not the NY, LA, SF, Chi, Phi of the world:

Minnesota
Carolina
Arizona

And lastly, what about states that have no income tax (TX and Fla)?

Dallas
Houston
Miami
Jacksonville
Tampa Bay

With no income tax, I would think you could do better off in a place like Tampa or Jacksonville.  And the cost of living in Miami or Dallas, may be offset by the lack of tax.

There's plenty of places he could play, and not really have to worry too much about cost of living.  The only reason I could see him staying is if he really loves the city and the people that much.

He's not winning here.  Most of the guys he was coached by or played with, and had relationships are now gone.  And he's given the worst ammentities here of any single team in the entire NFL.  What other reason is there other than the love of the city?

(12-16-2020, 03:10 PM)J24 Wrote:  Last season our Defensive line was a lot better when we had the starting D-Line out there. Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson all produced at high level. A lot of that had to do with Atkins creating havoc up the middle. Secondly he didn't produce this season because he hardly played and he evidently had a serious injury.  
Saying he is done might be a huge stretch at this point. 

His 2019 totals were his lowest since 2014, which is why I am not confident to say he'll be back to being elite once he's healthy.
It might be that he's declining along with being injured.

“They have 37 players that are currently under contract [for 2021] and the totally liability there is $142 million,” Spielberger said on the Locked on Bengals podcast. “Whatever the cap is, obviously that minus this 142 number and then you obviously get to roll over or carry over unused cap space from 2020 and they have about $11 million there so they should have 50, 60, 70 million to work with potentially."

The Bengals have plenty of players that they could potentially move on from to create more cap space including Giovani Bernard, Bobby Hart, B.J. Finney and Geno Atkins.
---

I've been reading all the doom and gloom but I'm still pretty upbeat about the future. They are obviously moving on from the past culture with new younger talent to mold. We were crushed with injuries this past season and getting those players back along with another draft, free agency and resigning core talent we should quickly turn the corner.

Zac will stay and get some new coaches and advisors and I'm fine with that. He seems to have a specific goal in mind for the shape of the team. Give Burrow a good offensive line and a few more receivers and we'll be a top offense.

(12-16-2020, 01:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: He couldn't pass a physical to be traded with his shoulder.  He was basically doing them a solid and toughing it out for them due to all the injuries at DT.  

It's time to cut bait, but mad respect to Geno.  He's my all time favorite Bengal.  

This. Always a class act. I hope does well wherever he winds up.

(12-16-2020, 03:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Yeah, but that argument only works against higher cost of living cities.

Here are some teams I can think of, with comparable cost of living:

Kansas City
Pittsburgh
Green Bay
Buffalo
Cleveland
Indianapolis


Here are some more, who I'm unsure of, but I know they're not the NY, LA, SF, Chi, Phi of the world:

Minnesota
Carolina
Arizona

And lastly, what about states that have no income tax (TX and Fla)?

Dallas
Houston
Miami
Jacksonville
Tampa Bay

With no income tax, I would think you could do better off in a place like Tampa or Jacksonville.  And the cost of living in Miami or Dallas, may be offset by the lack of tax.

There's plenty of places he could play, and not really have to worry too much about cost of living.  The only reason I could see him staying is if he really loves the city and the people that much.

He's not winning here.  Most of the guys he was coached by or played with, and had relationships are now gone.  And he's given the worst ammentities here of any single team in the entire NFL.  What other reason is there other than the love of the city?

Absolutely there are places a cheap, or cheaper with less tax than Cincinnati. My point was, there's lots of teams where it would cost him insanely more amounts of money in taxes etc. That is a reason he might stay over an offer say to LA or NY. I'm sure their agents all have tax people that figure out how much more they would have to have to make the same banked money. 

(12-16-2020, 04:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: His 2019 totals were his lowest since 2014, which is why I am not confident to say he'll be back to being elite once he's healthy.
It might be that he's declining along with being injured.

Him and Fletcher Cox had the same exact season last year. Yet know one was saying that Cox was declining last season. 
Like I said previously Hubbard, Lawson, and Dunlap were playing at a high level at the end of last season A lot of that could be contributed to the fact that they were playing off of Geno. This season none of them have been as effective as last year maybe its due to lack of  Geno's presence.

(12-16-2020, 03:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: We haven't competed in the prior 5 years, how about you tell me why we will compete without significant changes the next 5? Have you seen this division? 

Even with coaching changes we are likely 2 drafts (thanks to not having enough picks to fix everything) away. That 2 more years under best case scenario right there. 

At this point the notion that we will be competitive given the last 5 years, the rise of the division, and the current state of the post Marvin era (given the state of the pre Marvin era, and the fact the FO has never been able to win without Marvin), the explanation should come from those who think that "hot take" that we aren't 5-19 years away.

We have a franchise QB, a franchise LT(and RT coming next April in all likelihood), a Franchise WR, and a Franchise RB. Defense needs work no question but acting like this team is 5-10 years away is ridiculously stupid. 
The key positions are locked up long term and all seem to have bright futures.

(12-16-2020, 05:15 PM)J24 Wrote: Him and Fletcher Cox had the same exact season last year. Yet know one was saying that Cox was declining last season. 
Like I said previously Hubbard, Lawson, and Dunlap were playing at a high level at the end of last season A lot of that could be contributed to the fact that they were playing off of Geno. This season none of them have been as effective as last year maybe its due to lack of  Geno's presence.

Maybe Geno gets back to form, but maybe he doesn't. Is that something you want to gamble $14.8 mill on? Not me.

(12-16-2020, 05:21 PM)J24 Wrote: We have a franchise QB, a franchise LT(and RT coming next April in all likelihood), a Franchise WR, and a Franchise RB. Defense needs work no question but acting like this team is 5-10 years away is ridiculously stupid. 
The key positions are locked up long term and all seem to have bright futures.

not sure we have a franchise LT... he hasnt held that spot down..
franchise RB that doesnt play isnt much of a franchise guy either.

Qb is good for now but without proper coaching doesnt do much but hide how bad the coaching really is.

(12-16-2020, 05:30 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: not sure we have a franchise LT... he hasnt held that spot down..
franchise RB that doesnt play isnt much of a franchise guy either.

Qb is good for now but without proper coaching doesnt do much but hide how bad the coaching really is.

Right now our franchise quarterback is somewhere between surgery and rehab so even that’s iffy at best. Other than that I would say the Cincinnati Bengals don’t have anybody else who would be considered “franchise” quality. I fail to see how anybody on the current Cincinnati roster would start on any of the other 31 teams in the NFL.

(12-16-2020, 05:34 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Right now our franchise quarterback is somewhere between surgery and rehab so even that’s iffy at best.   Other than that I would say the Cincinnati Bengals don’t have anybody else who would be considered “franchise” quality.   I fail to see how anybody on the current Cincinnati roster would start on any of the other 31 teams in the NFL.

i think plenty of these guys could find a starting role or at least a heavy rotational one. i dont think our roster is horrible.  I just dont think its good enough to overcome whats holding it back.

(12-16-2020, 05:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maybe Geno gets back to form, but maybe he doesn't. Is that something you want to gamble $14.8 mill on? Not me.

I would rather use the money elsewhere but it's not like it's a suicidal gamble on keeping him. If we lose him, Lawson, and Jackson then our defense has zero hope coming into next season. Anyways it's more than likely a pipe dream that we actually go out and sign a big time free agent to make up for the loss of Geno.

(12-16-2020, 05:30 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: not sure we have a franchise LT... he hasnt held that spot down..
franchise RB that doesnt play isnt much of a franchise guy either.

Qb is good for now but without proper coaching doesnt do much but hide how bad the coaching really is.

You wrong on both accounts Jonah is a future star in this league and Mixon is a top back both will be fine long term.

(12-16-2020, 05:43 PM)J24 Wrote: I would rather use the money elsewhere but it's not like it's a suicidal gamble on keeping him. If we lose him, Lawson, and Jackson then our defense has zero hope coming into next season. Anyways it's more than likely a pipe dream that we actually go out and sign a big time free agent to make up for the loss of Geno.

You wrong on both accounts Jonah is a future star in this league and Mixon is a top back both will be fine long term.

My goal would be to re-sign both WJ3 and Lawson, cut Atkins, and draft 2-3 DL.

(12-16-2020, 01:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals and Geno Atkins will have a conversation after the season, but the belief is the two parties are going to part ways, per a source. #Bengals

Would be a win for the Bengals and Geno IMO.

Also - you have to wonder if they Bengals didn't put him on IR sooner was because they were trying to trade him. Not sure I give this FO that much credit though.

Oh joy, clown Taylor chasing away another vet...

(12-16-2020, 05:43 PM)J24 Wrote: You wrong on both accounts Jonah is a future star in this league and Mixon is a top back both will be fine long term.

yep they kept feeding me that line about Ced O  as well... and where are we now. mixon will be fine if hes on the field and has a coach that will call run plays but

(12-16-2020, 05:59 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: yep they kept feeding me that line about Ced O  as well... and where are we now.  mixon will be fine if hes on the field and has a coach that will call run plays but

Know one ever said that about Ced O now come on that's just being ignorant. Dude was benched his first season as a starter by Paul Alexander and he never benched anybody.

(12-16-2020, 05:43 PM)J24 Wrote: You wrong on both accounts Jonah is a future star in this league and Mixon is a top back both will be fine long term.

Please take the time to answer these questions and, for once, provide some context:

1.) What are using to come to the conclusion that is a fact that Jonah is a future star in this league?

Hope is not answer, neither is draft position.  I would like to know what it is that is making you so confident to present this as a fact. So much so that you reply to someone else saying something as benign as he's not proven yet, with "you're wrong".

2.) What is your definition of a "top back"?  (Is it top 5, top 10, ???)

Curious to see your responses.   It seems you never take the time to explain yourself, or your reasoning.  That would be fine if we were talking about clear opinions, prefaced by "I think" or "I believe", but if you're going to present your posts as factual you should at least take a few seconds to support your argument.

(12-16-2020, 05:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My goal would be to re-sign both WJ3 and Lawson, cut Atkins, and draft 2-3 DL.

I think we're only going to keep one of those two and that's because of the franchise Tag. My bet is Lawson but who knows. If either hit the open market their gone.
As for the D-Line agreed we need multiple players a 3T, DE. Nickle DT, and another Edge.