(12-21-2020, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've seen some, and at least one on here saying that if the Bengals miss out on Sewell, perhaps they should target Leatherwood at either 35, and in one instance.. 3

I can't buy into the Leatherwood hype. I seen several plays in the SECCG that made me question why so many would have him rated so high. Sure, he had some good plays, but he also got beaten a fair number of times and had moments of looking less than dominate in run blocking as well.

So, I took a little time and looked at where he was on 8 different big boards.

CBS 45th OA 11th OL (they didn't distinguish G or T)
TDN 41st OA 7th T 13th OL
PFN 7 OA 2nd T 2nd OL
ESPN 10th OA 2nd T 2nd OL
Draftek 15th OA 2nd T 2nd OL
Tankathon 23rd OA 4th T 6th OL
Sporting News 8 OA 2nd T @nd OL
Walter 4th T (His board wouldn't load, filled with ads, best I could get from several attempts)

The point of this exercise was to point out that I feel like some of the "Draft Gurus" might be lazy, and just go off of brand name. All have Sewell as unanimous Top OL and all but one in top 3 OA. However, I feel like the Bengals should possibly stay away from 'Bama OL. Twice now, they have taken a 'Bama T with a high pick, both times the player was damaged goods and took much longer than expected to pan out.

I have an opinion as to why. I think that maybe the 'Bama OL just beat themselves to death while playing in college, and have worn their bodies out by the time they reach the NFL. I have no studies to support that, just my opinion.

I’ve been on the leatherwood at 35, while grabbing Davis in a trade down for some time. I think he’s be a very solid rt for a decade plus. However I LOVE me some of these other tackles so I’m fine with either of the other ones in the 35 range as well. If darrisaw fell give me all of that.

I just looked at the pro bowl list. The Lion's Center Ragnow made the pro bowl this year. They picked him one pick before we picked Price. A lot of people wanted Ragnow. After he was taken we totally botched it and picked Price (a perceived reach by all). We could have picked the linebacker the Cowboys got. He's been solid (blanking on the name). Trading down would have been better possibly.

Or, maybe we should never have made that trade down at all and just picked the BPA at pick 12 or whatever. That OT (Glenn) we picked up in the trade was a waste of money. Price hasn't panned out. Overall we botched the entire situation. In hindsight, we screwed up as usual. It's hard to screw up the #3 overall pick if you pick BPA.

(12-20-2020, 11:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Other than only playing one season what’s the reason he’s not being talked about as a lock for a top 5 pick? I know he’s not supposed to be a Young/Bosa level prospect, but just looking at his stats and measurements I’m not sure why.

(12-21-2020, 01:34 PM)Whatever Wrote: He basically just won with his innate athletic gifts and doesn't have very good technique.  He also played at 251, which is pretty light compared to the 265-270 range Young and Boss were in.  

He actually has great instincts, vision, and solid technique vs the run. He needs to add to his pass rush moves and counters which Ohio State is excellent at teaching. If he had played this year instead of opting out with similar production we would be arguing if its Sewll or Rousseau but the one year wonder tag has people iffy. 

Rousseau is build and has the athleticism to be a top NFL pass rusher...and he put up 54 Tackles (30 Solo) 19.5 TFLs and 15.5 sacks. Those are crazy numbers.

(12-21-2020, 09:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I just looked at the pro bowl list. The Lion's Center Ragnow made the pro bowl this year. They picked him one pick before we picked Price. A lot of people wanted Ragnow. After he was taken we totally botched it and picked Price (a perceived reach by all). We could have picked the linebacker the Cowboys got. He's been solid (blanking on the name). Trading down would have been better possibly.

Or, maybe we should never have made that trade down at all and just picked the BPA at pick 12 or whatever. That OT (Glenn) we picked up in the trade was a waste of money. Price hasn't panned out. Overall we botched the entire situation. In hindsight, we screwed up as usual. It's hard to screw up the #3 overall pick if you pick BPA.

Meh, you can drive yourself nuts playing "hindsight games".  Heck, for that matter, we could have had Dalvin Cook. 

(12-21-2020, 10:09 PM)Synric Wrote: He actually has great instincts, vision, and solid technique vs the run. He needs to add to his pass rush moves and counters which Ohio State is excellent at teaching. If he had played this year instead of opting out with similar production we would be arguing if its Sewll or Rousseau but the one year wonder tag has people iffy. 

Rousseau is build and has the athleticism to be a top NFL pass rusher...and he put up 54 Tackles (30 Solo) 19.5 TFLs and 15.5 sacks. Those are crazy numbers.

His numbers are definitely great.  However, by comparison, Whitney Mercilus had 57 tackles, 22.5 TFL, 16 sacks, and 9 FF the year he came out and he went 26th and was the 5th edge off the board in '12.  I think he's a good prospect, but he's being somewhat overrated due to being the runaway #1 prospect at a premium position in a weak class.  No way I would take him at #3 overall.  If a trade happened and we wound up in the 6-10 range, then I'd be ok with it.

(12-21-2020, 08:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And 4.5 is plenty fast for a talented WR.  4.5 is exactly what AJ Green ran, and I can't ever remember him getting caught from behind when he was in full stride.  However, I'm really against the team taking ANY non OL or DL player with their top pick this year.  This team needs the lines built up, before they start buying flashy toys.

People thought Justin Jefferson would be a 4.5 guy last year and he wound up running 4.43.  I think Chase will likely run a similar time, especially with a full season to prep for the underwear Olympics.

The most important thing if the Bengals stay at 3 is that they need to come away with a franchise cornerstone type of player, regardless of position.  You don't get many opportunities at an elite prospect.  If Sewell is there and you don't get a great trade offer, then he's the guy.  If Sewell isn't there and the trade isn't there, you can't reach just because you want to narrow it down to 2 position groups.  

(12-21-2020, 09:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I just looked at the pro bowl list. The Lion's Center Ragnow made the pro bowl this year. They picked him one pick before we picked Price. A lot of people wanted Ragnow. After he was taken we totally botched it and picked Price (a perceived reach by all). We could have picked the linebacker the Cowboys got. He's been solid (blanking on the name). Trading down would have been better possibly.

Or, maybe we should never have made that trade down at all and just picked the BPA at pick 12 or whatever. That OT (Glenn) we picked up in the trade was a waste of money. Price hasn't panned out. Overall we botched the entire situation. In hindsight, we screwed up as usual. It's hard to screw up the #3 overall pick if you pick BPA.

The Cowboys took their LB at #19, right before the Lions. We had no shot at Vander Esch. 

The whole 2018 draft was weird in that we most likely only take Ragnow at 21, and not if we traded up. The Lions wanted Vander Esch more which is why Dallas stayed at 19 instead of trading back. We would've had to move up to 18, but the Seahawks wanted more than normal to move back, despite them desperately wanting to move back. If they decided to move up to #17, then Vander Esch and Ragnow are both not in consideration because beat guys and even Hobson noted that Marvin, the defensive staff, the scouts, and basically everyone else loved Derwin James would've taken him.

(12-20-2020, 06:26 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Who would you target? Would you trade down? What would you do?

If Sewell is the top prospect in the draft, it’s wishful thinking he falls to 3–especially considering it looks like there’s only one QB worth taking before him.

Thoughts?

As it stands now, I run to the podium and get Chase if Sewell is gone.  Or, I let the #4 team trade up to get Fields perhaps.  ATL could use him.

(12-22-2020, 02:29 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: The Cowboys took their LB at #19, right before the Lions. We had no shot at Vander Esch. 

The whole 2018 draft was weird in that we most likely only take Ragnow at 21, and not if we traded up. The Lions wanted Vander Esch more which is why Dallas stayed at 19 instead of trading back. We would've had to move up to 18, but the Seahawks wanted more than normal to move back, despite them desperately wanting to move back. If they decided to move up to #17, then Vander Esch and Ragnow are both not in consideration because beat guys and even Hobson noted that Marvin, the defensive staff, the scouts, and basically everyone else loved Derwin James would've taken him.

I guess I’m remembering things wrong. My bad. We definitely botched that whole situation though. Should have traded back up or never traded down to begin with. I get that it’s hindsight. We all pushed for the move. I remember someone brought it up on the boards and then on Hobson’s choice, and then they actually made it happen. They were trying so I’ll give them that. Didn’t work out. Oh well.

(12-22-2020, 02:22 AM)Whatever Wrote: People thought Justin Jefferson would be a 4.5 guy last year and he wound up running 4.43.  I think Chase will likely run a similar time, especially with a full season to prep for the underwear Olympics.

The most important thing if the Bengals stay at 3 is that they need to come away with a franchise cornerstone type of player, regardless of position.  You don't get many opportunities at an elite prospect.  If Sewell is there and you don't get a great trade offer, then he's the guy.  If Sewell isn't there and the trade isn't there, you can't reach just because you want to narrow it down to 2 position groups.  

Great point. We got ourselves in trouble in the past reaching for OTs and missing (twice in the same draft). You have to go BPA. That said, I would prefer BPA lines up with oline and dline.

(12-22-2020, 02:22 AM)Whatever Wrote: People thought Justin Jefferson would be a 4.5 guy last year and he wound up running 4.43.  I think Chase will likely run a similar time, especially with a full season to prep for the underwear Olympics.

The most important thing if the Bengals stay at 3 is that they need to come away with a franchise cornerstone type of player, regardless of position.  You don't get many opportunities at an elite prospect.  If Sewell is there and you don't get a great trade offer, then he's the guy.  If Sewell isn't there and the trade isn't there, you can't reach just because you want to narrow it down to 2 position groups.  

Rep

You have to go BPA that high. I understand people want a pass rusher, but Chase and Surtain are probably the best players to take in that range.

(12-22-2020, 03:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Rep

You have to go BPA that high. I understand people want a pass rusher, but Chase and Surtain are probably the best players to take in that range.

I don’t get the hype on surtain. I’ve seen him get beat far too often..

(12-22-2020, 03:48 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I don’t get the hype on surtain. I’ve seen him get beat far too often..

Patrick Surtain II has only allowed 1 catch go for 25+ yards in coverage this season pic.twitter.com/rjcszKNkAZ

— PFF College (@PFF_College) December 8, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

(12-21-2020, 07:55 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Maybe that's why I'm not as high on him as you are, I expect him to run in the 4.5 range.

Alpha dog that does everything right and takes the top off a defense that isn't going to be dead mid-year because he opted out.  I see him running a 4.45, which isn't that different, but he can just move with such fluid speed.  His acceleration.  I would rather have his 205 lb body than the 175 lb Smith, who is sure to be injured early in his career.  

(12-21-2020, 09:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I just looked at the pro bowl list. The Lion's Center Ragnow made the pro bowl this year. They picked him one pick before we picked Price. A lot of people wanted Ragnow. After he was taken we totally botched it and picked Price (a perceived reach by all). We could have picked the linebacker the Cowboys got. He's been solid (blanking on the name). Trading down would have been better possibly.

Or, maybe we should never have made that trade down at all and just picked the BPA at pick 12 or whatever. That OT (Glenn) we picked up in the trade was a waste of money. Price hasn't panned out. Overall we botched the entire situation. In hindsight, we screwed up as usual. It's hard to screw up the #3 overall pick if you pick BPA.

You have revision history,  many saw Glenn and price as a strong move to add 2 lineman  there was no consensus center #1  out of the two and neither where mentioned as a top 10-12 pick. We did the right move at the time adding 2 lineman but it did not pan out.

(12-22-2020, 08:12 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: My list goes:

Sewell, OT
Surtain, CB
Pitts, TE
Smith/Chase/Waddle, WR (I think it’s just splitting hairs between these 3 and idc which we would potentially get)

Really wish there was a DT or Edge rusher worthy of a Top 3 pick like Chase Young last year or a Quinnen Williams type.

I know I've said it before, but IMO folks are sleeping on Gregory Rousseau and I have no idea why. Dude didn't even start playing Dline unti his Senior year in HS and had 16 sacks as a Red Shirt Freshman in the ACC. On their prospect listing Drafttek recently moved Parsons up 9 picks and Gregory down 4; even though neither has taken a snap this year. 

GR has the size and production to be among the best edge rushers to come out for some time. I have a feeling that when the draft comes around he'll be the list position player taken. 

(12-22-2020, 03:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Patrick Surtain II has only allowed 1 catch go for 25+ yards in coverage this season pic.twitter.com/rjcszKNkAZ

— PFF College (@PFF_College) December 8, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Why 25+? I thought it was normally broken down by 20+ and 40+.

Also, no longer accurate. He gave up a 50 yard TD against Florida. So 2 at the very least, since the 7th was over two weeks ago.



- - - - - - - - - -

As for the thread, I would say go Ja'Marr Chase. Bit of a luxury pick, but hard to turn down a 21 yard per catch WR who has a nearly 1,800 yard/20 TD season on the books catching passes from Joe Burrow.

I might consider a trade down depending on how far you'd go down (I don't think I would want to drop past 5 or 6) and take Kyle Pitts.

With the path the NFL has been taking lately, I am all-in on making the offense great and worrying about the defense later. Protect Burrow and give him all the weapons first.

Boyd got a concussion and the offense suddenly looked real thin on pass catching options. Higgins might be great eventually, but he's not there yet and can't be the focal point of an offense. The rest are guys that are backups at best.

(12-22-2020, 09:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Why 25+? I thought it was normally broken down by 20+ and 40+.

Also, no longer accurate. He gave up a 50 yard TD against Florida. So 2 at the very least, since the 7th was over two weeks ago.



- - - - - - - - - -

As for the thread, I would say go Ja'Marr Chase. Bit of a luxury pick, but hard to turn down a 21 yard per catch WR who has a nearly 1,800 yard/20 TD season on the books catching passes from Joe Burrow.

I might consider a trade down depending on how far you'd go down (I don't think I would want to drop past 5 or 6) and take Kyle Pitts.

With the path the NFL has been taking lately, I am all-in on making the offense great and worrying about the defense later. Protect Burrow and give him all the weapons first.

Boyd got a concussion and the offense suddenly looked real thin on pass catching options. Higgins might be great eventually, but he's not there yet and can't be the focal point of an offense. The rest are guys that are backups at best.

Yes, that tweet was before the Florida game. Still disproves Jpoore’s claim that Surtain “gets beat way too much.”

BPA does not work the same with all teams.. a good team has more ability to do a BPA.. a bad team does not as much. I never would say picking any players a few picks from projection a reach when you need that position badly . For example Rousseau is projected as top edge rusher and projected in the 6th pick range.. if Bengals feel that good about him, you take him with #3 pick over a BPA at CB or WR....

If I’m taking a guy at least a few spots ahead of where he’s projected it would be Pitts.