So I know we just came off a draft where we got linebackers, but I have to ask the question. Would you take a Ray Lewis or Luke Kuechly in this years draft if given the chance? He's arguably right there with Sewell from a talent evaluation standpoint.

I AM NOT SAYING we should or shouldn't draft him, but I want to hear from a talent perspective if we're sitting at pick 5 or 6 and this guy is on the board it's a discussion that needs to be had.

(12-29-2020, 04:40 PM)Okeana Wrote: So I know we just came off a draft where we got linebackers, but I have to ask the question.  Would you take a Ray Lewis or Luke Kuechly in this years draft if given the chance?  He's arguably right there with Sewell from a talent evaluation standpoint.  

I AM NOT SAYING we should or shouldn't draft him, but I want to hear from a talent perspective if we're sitting at pick 5 or 6 and this guy is on the board it's a discussion that needs to be had.

I think you can get bigger impact players at that slot. Parsons is incredibly talented, but who is going to have a bigger impact; Parsons, or Chase? With the league becoming more offense oriented, a top WR (or TE, for that matter) is likely going to move the needle more than a top LBer, especially given that we have our young QB of the future. It is attractive to add more talent around him, whether it be OL or weapons. 

I am not 100% opposed, I do want to say that. I just think you can get more impact out of another position.

(12-29-2020, 04:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think you can get bigger impact players at that slot. Parsons is incredibly talented, but who is going to have a bigger impact; Parsons, or Chase? With the league becoming more offense oriented, a top WR (or TE, for that matter) is likely going to move the needle more than a top LBer, especially given that we have our young QB of the future. It is attractive to add more talent around him, whether it be OL or weapons. 

I am not 100% opposed, I do want to say that. I just think you can get more impact out of another position.

I agree and its nothing against chase, but wide receivers are one of the most available roles in the draft these days.  There are talented guys coming out every year in every round of the draft.  With us losing Geno it may be time for us to go to a 3-4 system full time and what better guy to draft that Micah to fill that role.

For me Micah is as can't miss a prospect as you can find in a draft.  recruited as a 5 star, award winning and played at the highest level in college football, and no injury issues.  Maybe its just the old school fan in me that wants this team to have a dominate MIKE, but im extremely torn. 

Personally, I think Sewell has a chance of making it to us at 5 you never know,  either way there are some really talented players in the top 6 spots.

(12-29-2020, 04:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think you can get bigger impact players at that slot. Parsons is incredibly talented, but who is going to have a bigger impact; Parsons, or Chase? With the league becoming more offense oriented, a top WR (or TE, for that matter) is likely going to move the needle more than a top LBer, especially given that we have our young QB of the future. It is attractive to add more talent around him, whether it be OL or weapons. 

I am not 100% opposed, I do want to say that. I just think you can get more impact out of another position.

I don't know, KG.  But it seems like a LB of the quality of Parsons could have snuffed out those two long runs we gave up Sunday, before they got past the line of scrimmage.  Those killer instincts, combined with the devastating inside blitz and above average coverage skills would really add a missing dimension to the defense.

(12-29-2020, 04:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think you can get bigger impact players at that slot. Parsons is incredibly talented, but who is going to have a bigger impact; Parsons, or Chase? With the league becoming more offense oriented, a top WR (or TE, for that matter) is likely going to move the needle more than a top LBer, especially given that we have our young QB of the future. It is attractive to add more talent around him, whether it be OL or weapons. 

I am not 100% opposed, I do want to say that. I just think you can get more impact out of another position.

I disagree with the notion that we need offense more than Defense.  If you want to build a championship team you must have a good defense.
Now I will say the Lb position is like the RB position on defense and there is more  value in drafting a CB or a pass rusher.
Burrow doesn't need that much around him on offense to be effective. He can make the players around him better on offense he is that special. No need to treat him like Dalton 2.0.

It's a no from me because of a positional value situation. Stack linebackers simply don't create a lot of value and unless you actually hit on a HOF type player simply a really good one doesn't create a ton of value. Since no one truly knows if someone will be a HOF'er I think asking to do that at 5/6 is probably a little early especially with a year off.

Picking 5th really opens up the BPA discussion doesn't it?

I don't think I could take a WR at 5 in this years class. There are way too many that could come in here and make a difference.

Now, people say we didn't use a TE all that much, but if you remember Burrow seemed to do a fair amount of damage with Uz when he was healthy. I don't know if I would want a TE at 5, but I think a legit threat at TE like Pitts would make a much larger impact than any WR we would take at that spot.

(12-29-2020, 05:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: It's a no from me because of a positional value situation. Stack linebackers simply don't create a lot of value and unless you actually hit on a HOF type player simply a really good one doesn't create a ton of value. Since no one truly knows if someone will be a HOF'er I think asking to do that at 5/6 is probably a little early especially with a year off.

I agree the positional value is typically poor.  I hate the term generational talent, but Micah is truly a generational talent from an evaluation standpoint.  It really comes down to if you take the best player or at the pick... if he's on the board its going to be hard to say hes not the best player.  I think he's truely scheme diverse and his ability get sacks/FF can't really be overlooked from a value standpoint.  

Its so hard to determine what the team should do until we see if we have coaching changes coming... All I know is that the time has never been better place to make the move to 3-4 for this team than now

(12-29-2020, 05:42 PM)J24 Wrote: I disagree with the notion that we need offense more than Defense.  If you want to build a championship team you must have a good defense.
Now I will say the Lb position is like the RB position on defense and there is more  value in drafting a CB or a pass rusher.
Burrow doesn't need that much around him on offense to be effective. He can make the players around him better on offense he is that special. No need to treat him like Dalton 2.0.

You do need a good defense, but I am going to place more value on a secondary player than a linebacker. The idea is if you give Burrow special weapons around him, when you believe he is a special QB, you have the potential to get special results. 

(12-29-2020, 05:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Picking 5th really opens up the BPA discussion doesn't it?  

I don't think I could take a WR at 5 in this years class.  There are way too many that could come in here and make a difference.

Now, people say we didn't use a TE all that much, but if you remember Burrow seemed to do a fair amount of damage with Uz when he was healthy.  I don't know if I would want a TE at 5, but I think a legit threat at TE like Pitts would make a much larger impact than any WR we would take at that spot.

I think thats debatable.  Pitts is a great player, but I dont really want to go off-topic and debate the positional value of WR vs TE at 5 lmao.

I will say this.  The x factor for me is that Chase has proven success with Burrow and he was the best receiver in CFB last year.  

When I look at players in the top 10 that I feel can be annually all pro players,  It comes down to Parsons and Sewell.  

(12-29-2020, 05:52 PM)Okeana Wrote: I agree the positional value is typically poor.  I hate the term generational talent, but Micah is truly a generational talent from an evaluation standpoint.  It really comes down to if you take the best player or at the pick... if he's on the board its going to be hard to say hes not the best player.  I think he's truely scheme diverse and his ability get sacks/FF can't really be overlooked from a value standpoint.  

Its so hard to determine what the team should do until we see if we have coaching changes coming... All I know is that the time has never been better place to make the move to 3-4 for this team than now

Keuchly coming out was better. A genius, the guy was insanely smart which let him be an elite day 1 player in the NFL. I am not sure Parsons will be able to play MIKE year 1 because of some coverage inefficiencies and a transition to more of a stack role. I kind of think he is closer to Edmunds in Buffalo than Keuchly.

(12-29-2020, 05:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You do need a good defense, but I am going to place more value on a secondary player than a linebacker. The idea is if you give Burrow special weapons around him, when you believe he is a special QB, you have the potential to get special results. 

I think what you're not taking into account is outside of positional value is the evaluation of the player.  If Stingley was in this draft I could see this to be a fair comparison.  I highly suggest you go watch some tape on Parsons and see the fire that he brings to the position.  He really has the Dawkins or Lewis team inspiration factor.  I mean the guy makes me want to run thru a wall watching him play.  Ive spent the last two days watching every game he played in college and I was high on him before, but now I can't express how impressed I am with the kid.  I think this guy is gonna kill interviews and combine.

If he’s a Bobby Wagner, Luke Kuekly, Ray Lewis type linebacker that can quarterback your defense for the next 10 years, I think he’s worth the pick at that spot. No question. These type of players are more valuable than you think. Just ask any coach that has one (zimmer, caroll, etc.).

It would be a blessing to be stacked at linebacker.

You can find great wide receivers in lower rounds. 1st round wide receivers are boom or bust. You have your AJ, Julio type lock picks. But there’s a lot of Raider type 1st rounders that fail to live up to their draft status. I’d love Chase; his connection with Burrow makes me think he’d live up to the draft status. But I could see him drafted by Miami. I’d be good with either Parsons or Chase. Falcons could definitely pick Parsons, as could Miami. I’d take him if Sewell wasn’t there, Chase would be a close second though. Pass rusher or Surtain would be my 3rd option, and could be what we’re left with at 5. (Edit: I mean 6)

(12-29-2020, 06:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: Keuchly coming out was better. A genius, the guy was insanely smart which let him be an elite day 1 player in the NFL. I am not sure Parsons will be able to play MIKE year 1 because of some coverage inefficiencies and a transition to more of a stack role. I kind of think he is closer to Edmunds in Buffalo than Keuchly.

I think Keuchly was more developed at the position because he played it his entire career with only a brief time playing at safety.  Parsons played defensive end and running back,  I think Parsons is by far the more dynamic pass rusher of the two at least coming out of college.  Imagine the packages you could put together with Lawson and Parsons off the edge in a 3-4...

(12-29-2020, 05:42 PM)J24 Wrote: I disagree with the notion that we need offense more than Defense.  If you want to build a championship team you must have a good defense.
Now I will say the Lb position is like the RB position on defense and there is more  value in drafting a CB or a pass rusher.
Burrow doesn't need that much around him on offense to be effective. He can make the players around him better on offense he is that special. No need to treat him like Dalton 2.0.

The last two SB winners were in the bottom half of the league in defense.  

It's a bit silly to expect a second year QB to carry the offense.  We all hope that Burrow can become a Tom Brady and make due with no name skill guys, but he isn't there yet.  He might never hit that stage, either.  

(12-29-2020, 06:25 PM)Whatever Wrote: The last two SB winners were in the bottom half of the league in defense.  

It's a bit silly to expect a second year QB to carry the offense.  We all hope that Burrow can become a Tom Brady and make due with no name skill guys, but he isn't there yet.  He might never hit that stage, either.  

uh the patriots had the 7th best defense when they won and the chiefs had the 7th best defense last year... at least your name fits because you say whatever lmao

(12-29-2020, 06:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: Keuchly coming out was better. A genius, the guy was insanely smart which let him be an elite day 1 player in the NFL. I am not sure Parsons will be able to play MIKE year 1 because of some coverage inefficiencies and a transition to more of a stack role. I kind of think he is closer to Edmunds in Buffalo than Keuchly.

The way Penn State used Parsons reminds me of how Devin White was used at LSU. He was used to attack downhill. Which is how he should be used for at least his first year in the NFL.

I've been pumping Parsons in other threads.... I'd go with him personally as I think we need more defense.

If Burrow is as good as we think he is... he will be able to take most WR's and do damage with them.

(12-29-2020, 06:47 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I've been pumping Parsons in other threads.... I'd go with him personally as I think we need more defense.

If Burrow is as good as we think he is... he will be able to take most WR's and do damage with them.

I don't want to be considered a guy in Parsons pocket from this thread.  So I will play devil's advocate on this and suggest you go look at lsu's team stats from 2019.  Justin Jefferson who should be rookie MVP this year and by far the best WR production wise out of this draft actually was 2nd fiddle to Chase who was absolutely dominate.  

When you have the most dynamic QB/WR combo in CFB history why would you not want to recreate that in the nfl.  =)

I don't trust Penn State prospects to translate very well.  Most of his impact plays are just him blitzing - you aren't going to blitz or spy your Mike every play in the NFL.  Chase or Pitts would have more impact imo.  I think that I'd gamble on Rousseau or some of the other pass rushers over Parsons.