(01-04-2021, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of people here have poor memories of what happened when Taylor was hired.

When I dared to question Taylor's credentials I was crucified for "supporting Marvin".  A large majority of the fans were pleased with the hire.  But now that Taylor has failed miserably it is all Mike Browns fault for making such a stupid decision.

To be fair, the fans who supported the hire trusted that the FO are good enough at their jobs to make a quality hire. They are the ones who are supposed to be the experts.

(01-04-2021, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of people here have poor memories of what happened when Taylor was hired.

When I dared to question Taylor's credentials I was crucified for "supporting Marvin".  A large majority of the fans were pleased with the hire.  But now that Taylor has failed miserably it is all Mike Browns fault for making such a stupid decision.

Yes, as the owner and lifetime GM of the Bengals Mike Brown is more accountable for hiring ZT than the fans are.  I agree that fans are full of optimism and crap and I recall you and I both rolling our eyes at how ZT's first vanilla press conference made so many fans weak in the knees with how ZT was already 10 times the leader that Marvin Lewis was.

The issue with ZT is his resume and that's what I always point out.  One day before ZT was hired if you asked Bengals fans "How would you feel if the Steelers made a QB coach their HC?" fans would have said that was stupid and it would be awesome if the Steelers were that dumb.  At any rate, if fans were dumb enough to fall for ZT two years ago they're seeing the light now.

Bleed to know, and all that.

(01-04-2021, 12:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You're something else.

No one is complaining that he listens to fans.  No would is disputing fans wanted change either.  No one is saying his statement is incorrect (I even said this exact thing in my post about this topic)

What is raising people's eyebrows is why he felt the need to brining up the fans wishes when trying to sell us on this coach for year 3.  What does the fans wanting change in 2019 have to do with whether a coach is fit to lead the team in 2021?  How are they related?

And just because the fans wanted change does not mean the fans wanted to lose.  It doesn't mean they specifically wanted Zac Taylor either.

I fail to see what the fans wanted then has to do with anything right now.  It's an odd thing to reference.  It's even odder to not represent the desire for change as "we wanted".

You're wrong on this.  Countless people have locked on to that statement.  It's either one of two things: 

1.) A subtle dig at the fans
2.) A terribly worded PR statement.

Take your pick.

To add to your statements,  the fans have been wanting a larger scouting dept, and a new true GM and likely an indoor practice facility too. It's funny that making a coaching change after a historically long 16 year run of no playoff wins needs to be considered a gift by the fans,  a symbol of Mike graciously giving us what we want.  Nevermind the thirty year playoff win drought he had inflicted on the city after the city graciously gave him one of the sweetest deals ever. This is about as rich as it gets. I say that as someone who doesn't live in Cincy. 

(01-04-2021, 01:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes, as the owner and lifetime GM of the Bengals Mike Brown is more accountable for hiring ZT than the fans are.  I agree that fans are full of optimism and crap and I recall you and I both rolling our eyes at how ZT's first vanilla press conference made so many fans weak in the knees with how ZT was already 10 times the leader that Marvin Lewis was.

The issue with ZT is his resume and that's what I always point out.  One day before ZT was hired if you asked Bengals fans "How would you feel if the Steelers made a QB coach their HC?" fans would have said that was stupid and it would be awesome if the Steelers were that dumb.  At any rate, if fans were dumb enough to fall for ZT two years ago they're seeing the light now.

Bleed to know, and all that.

I think to an extent fans were giddy that changes were made at all considering who runs the team and how minimal an effect losing has on said owner relative to the rest of the league.  I'll admit,  I was very excited at first when the hiring of Taylor was even discussed prior to his hire.  But within a month or two it started to feel a bit worrisome that the coaching staff wasn't set,  and needed to go to like his seventh choice before getting a DC. By the middle of last year,  I was on board the reality train of hiring a guy who's never been a coordinator at the NFL level or a success at any level in his college stints. **Edit: I mean I understood the reality of the type of coach they hired, in case my wording wasn't clear. Edit**


You can't blame a starving beggar when he reacts to crumbs like it's a four course meal.  But in my defense I've never cared much about coach-speak so Zac's press conferences have meant nothing to me.  Neither did Marvin's.  I was never one to be upset about his "giggles."

(01-04-2021, 11:10 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I'll keep posting here this upcoming season (Love you guys too much), but I'm not watching any games.

We already know how this is going to play out.  Just delaying the inevitable and wasting everybody's time.

We are now "woke", maybe 30 years later for some of us. Fans of Mike Brown, not the Bengals. No sane person on earth would say they're a fan of Mike Brown, and that is exactly what we are when we root for this team.

I noticed Mike mentioned "injuries" and "missed opportunities."

What exactly does he mean by "missed opportunities"? And if they're missed, isn't that an indictment against the coaching staff? I get that injuries are unfortunate and can lead to a softer judgment on the coaches because in most cases its not their fault (none of the cases this year actually). But MB says a missed opportunity is a reason to give coaches another chance? Unless he explains what he means, this sounds terrible. Isn't a coach's job essentially to take all opportunities that are there and make the most of them? If you're missing them, to me that's incompetence which should lead to a firing.

A really good read for those inclined is Taylor Kolste excellent book “Breaking Down the 2019 L.A. Rams offense. It’s pretty much the Bengals playbook complete with McVay’s culture schtick. He has a website that has a pretty good sample so google his name.

Culture first coaches rarely work unless they have an established record. But re-treads and flavor-of-the-month coordinators rarely work either. Win football is tough (see Lions, Cards, etc.).

(01-04-2021, 01:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If that was playing hard yesterday I’d hate to see what the opposite looks like...

Sure, there's a few stinkers, but theres no way in hell this team beats the Steelers or Texans in years past with a 3rd string QB.

(01-04-2021, 02:44 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Sure, there's a few stinkers, but theres no way in hell this team beats the Steelers or Texans in years past with a 3rd string QB.

The Texans are truly awful on defense. Henry ran for 250 yards on them yesterday. Lol

Bad news keeps coming...Trey Hopkins with a ACL tear likely on PUP to start the 2021. That means they are down to 1 solid offensive lineman.

(01-04-2021, 02:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Texans are truly awful on defense. Henry ran for 250 yards on them yesterday. Lol

Lol ya I don’t think our Oline and Perine magically figured it out... Texans be stanky.

(01-04-2021, 02:49 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Lol ya I don’t think our Oline and Perine magically figured it out... Texans be stanky.

And J24 tried to argue with me that they aren’t missing Reader that much...

(01-04-2021, 02:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Texans are truly awful on defense. Henry ran for 250 yards on them yesterday. Lol

Still no way this team wins those 2 games in years past.

(01-04-2021, 02:49 PM)Synric Wrote: Bad news keeps coming...Trey Hopkins with a ACL tear likely on PUP to start the 2021. That means they are down to 1 solid offensive lineman.

It's never too early for Zac to start on the excuses for 2021! 

(01-04-2021, 02:30 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: We are now "woke", maybe 30 years later for some of us. Fans of Mike Brown, not the Bengals. No sane person on earth would say they're a fan of Mike Brown, and that is exactly what we are when we root for this team.

I don't understand.

Are you saying it is impossible to be a fan of the Bengals and not a fan of Mike Brown?

(01-04-2021, 02:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Still no way this team wins those 2 games in years past.

How do you figure? Marvin won games with McCarron and Driskel.

(01-04-2021, 02:44 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Sure, there's a few stinkers, but theres no way in hell this team beats the Steelers or Texans in years past with a 3rd string QB.

What are you talking about?  

2004 Bengals went 2-1 with a back up QB

2008 Bengals went 4-7-1 with our back up QB.  Tie was against the Eagles who went to the NFC Conference Championship game.

2015 Bengals went 1-1 with back up QB.  Took the Super Bowl Champion Broncos to overtime.

Even Jeff Driskel won a game for the Bengals in '18

(01-04-2021, 12:37 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: True, but if we all had a say in it, we'd turn into the Cleveland Browns.  New HC every year, maybe not new QB every year now that we have Burrow, but prior to that I'd bet on that too.  

Why can't we just be happy that it turns out MB does give a crap what the fans want.  He has not only proven it with making the change and spending in FA, he's now also come out and said it.  Oh right, it's popular and cool to hate on MB.  

it’s not popular or cool per se, but rather a logical indictment of 30 years of losing. The man has been the owner and general manager of the team for 30 years. His winning percentage is barely 40%. His teams have never won a playoff game. In those 30 years the team only has seven or eight winning seasons. Hard to argue against fans who Point out that level of Sustained failure.Bill Parcells said you are who your record says you are. In that case, Mike Brown is a loser. His managerial strategies have failed to produce a winning, competitive franchise. It’s hard to be intimidating with Mike as owner/GM, Duke and the kids forming the rest of the front office, and a coach with a Division record of 1-7 and overall record of 6-25-1.

I think that majority expected zac back at least for the start of next season . But reading betweens the lines a bit, it sounds like make or break.

My guess is, if the first six games open like this season did, zac won't be here.

(01-04-2021, 01:20 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: You can hold the optimism for you and me both then.  In my mind, the Bengals are stupid after these two years and what Zac has shown to keep him.  I don't care if the players "support" him, I don't care that he's confident in his own abilities (which have pretty much sucked every stop along the way).  I don't see Zac as a leader, I don't see Zac as having vision or a real plan, I don't see Zac as someone who holds himself accountable at all, I don't see Zac as someone who holds his assistant coaches and coordinators accountable, I don't see Zac ever turning this around.  

I do see the Bengals making some moves in FA again, drafting a couple of guys we're all excited about, and everyone talking during TC next year about how "this year is going to be different."  We're good at that.  And as consistent at the Bengals are in disappointing this fan base, the fan base is equally consistent every year at being excited that little to no change is going to result in dramatically better results.

Soooo, the Bengals are like politics...sounds reasonable.