Defense would perform better with a better scheme and the ability to actually tackle.

(01-09-2021, 10:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sorry Sled, but I just can't agree with you on this one.  He never does say that the Bengals should draft Defense in the first 3 rounds.  He does say "defense, defense, defense" twice, but I view that more as a "rally cry" than any actual prediction or premonition.

Could be, I guess it's all in how you read it. He was asked what the Bengals should do in the early rounds of the draft, and to me saying "Defense, Defense, Defense" means he thinks we should go defense 3 times. Maybe I took him wrong. If Sewell is there and they go defense, There's not much defending that.

(01-10-2021, 02:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Could be, I guess it's all in how you read it. He was asked what the Bengals should do in the early rounds of the draft, and to me saying "Defense, Defense, Defense" means he thinks we should go defense 3 times. Maybe I took him wrong. If Sewell is there and they go defense, There's not much defending that.

I guess that it's all going to hinge upon how true to their word the Bengals are about targeting OL, when free agency rolls around.  I'd like to think that the front office came to a realization that you cannot consistently field a quality team through just the draft and signing low quality free agents.  And by that, I don't necessarily mean that they should automatically throw money at the highest priced OL out there, sometimes the perfect fit is a mid-tier guy that has the essential skillset to work well in your scheme.

Don't think the Bengals will get any "elite now" talent. Those players will probably want more than the Bengals will spend, or even if the vault is open, go somewhere to get a ring. Bengals need to find that untapped potential in someone or the diamond in the rough kind of player. A group of scouts could help with that.

(01-10-2021, 03:00 PM)Destro Wrote: Don't think the Bengals will get any "elite now" talent. Those players will probably want more than the Bengals will spend, or even if the vault is open, go somewhere to get a ring. Bengals need to find that untapped potential in someone or the diamond in the rough kind of player. A group of scouts could help with that.

Your right that some free agents may want to play for a team that they think will give them a better chance of winning a championship. There is also a chance that the Bengals will not want to pay as much for "elite now" talent as another franchise would.

Hobson is already making the case that a player like Thuney would not be on the Bengals radar because he would command more than our front office would be willing to spend. Well Hobson was wrong last year and I'm hoping he's wrong this year. Our front office opened up the purse strings last year, to the surprise of many including myself, and I don't see why this off season would be any different. The Bengals are under the same financial restraints as the other 31 teams so we should be able to compete in free agency just like anyone else. I'm not saying we should over pay a free agent in a position of need if they are demanding an insane amount but I don't want us to wait too long to fill positions of need and have to dumpster dive in day 3 or 4 of free agency either.

(01-10-2021, 04:00 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote:  but I don't want us to wait too long to fill positions of need and have to dumpster dive in day 3 or 4 of free agency either.

Lol, picking players up in the 1st week of free agency is hardly "dumpster diving"  Most of the mega deals that break on the 1st and 2nd day of free agency, were likely already in the works prior to free agency beginning.  When I think of dumpster diving, I think of waiting until week 3 of free agency to begin looking at players from outside of your organization.

(01-10-2021, 04:00 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Your right that some free agents may want to play for a team that they think will give them a better chance of winning a championship. There is also a chance that the Bengals will not want to pay as much for "elite now" talent as another franchise would.

Hobson is already making the case that a player like Thuney would not be on the Bengals radar because he would command more than our front office would be willing to spend. Well Hobson was wrong last year and I'm hoping he's wrong this year. Our front office opened up the purse strings last year, to the surprise of many including myself, and I don't see why this off season would be any different. The Bengals are under the same financial restraints as the other 31 teams so we should be able to compete in free agency just like anyone else. I'm not saying we should over pay a free agent in a position of need if they are demanding an insane amount but I don't want us to wait too long to fill positions of need and have to dumpster dive in day 3 or 4 of free agency either.

Bengals could hopefully get that guy or two who isn't getting a bunch of interest but turns into a good player. Bengals used to get that every once in awhile. 

(01-10-2021, 04:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Lol, picking players up in the 1st week of free agency is hardly "dumpster diving"  Most of the mega deals that break on the 1st and 2nd day of free agency, were likely already in the works prior to free agency beginning.  When I think of dumpster diving, I think of waiting until week 3 of free agency to begin looking at players from outside of your organization.

Maybe "dumpster diving" is too strong a term but how long did the top tier free agent offensive linemen last in last years free agency? One day maybe two? Maybe they weren't targets of our front office, I don't know,but we did spend money on Reader, Waynes and Bell so the front office did spend money.

I just hope the front office and the coaching staff do everything in their power to give Burrow as much protection as they possibly can going forward. I don't care how it's done, just get it done. Burrow IS the franchise period.

(01-10-2021, 03:00 PM)Destro Wrote: Don't think the Bengals will get any "elite now" talent. Those players will probably want more than the Bengals will spend, or even if the vault is open, go somewhere to get a ring. Bengals need to find that untapped potential in someone or the diamond in the rough kind of player. A group of scouts could help with that.

Free agents go to perceived awful teams all the time.  I would say probably moreso that they go to actual Super Bowl contenders.  Most SB-caliber teams have more than a couple of established very good vets on their roster making big money, and most of them also have franchise QBs soaking up a huge chunk of cap.  

Guys want to win, but they also want to get paid, particularly if they are getting their second contact after the rookie deal.  Long-term financial security trumps a title every time for most of these guys, and the big money ones are possibly getting ready to sign the only big payday they will see.  

In short, if they want tier 1 free agent o-linemen and are willing to pony up, it will be zero problem.

(01-10-2021, 04:00 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Your right that some free agents may want to play for a team that they think will give them a better chance of winning a championship. There is also a chance that the Bengals will not want to pay as much for "elite now" talent as another franchise would.

Hobson is already making the case that a player like Thuney would not be on the Bengals radar because he would command more than our front office would be willing to spend. Well Hobson was wrong last year and I'm hoping he's wrong this year. Our front office opened up the purse strings last year, to the surprise of many including myself, and I don't see why this off season would be any different. The Bengals are under the same financial restraints as the other 31 teams so we should be able to compete in free agency just like anyone else. I'm not saying we should over pay a free agent in a position of need if they are demanding an insane amount but I don't want us to wait too long to fill positions of need and have to dumpster dive in day 3 or 4 of free agency either.

They're actually in a much better position to spend than the majority of the league.  Only five or six teams have more cap space.  If they want to get someone, they can.

(01-10-2021, 06:38 PM)samhain Wrote: Free agents go to perceived awful teams all the time.  I would say probably moreso that they go to actual Super Bowl contenders.  Most SB-caliber teams have more than a couple of established very good vets on their roster making big money, and most of them also have franchise QBs soaking up a huge chunk of cap.  

Guys want to win, but they also want to get paid, particularly if they are getting their second contact after the rookie deal.  Long-term financial security trumps a title every time for most of these guys, and the big money ones are possibly getting ready to sign the only big payday they will see.  

In short, if they want tier 1 free agent o-linemen and are willing to pony up, it will be zero problem.

Yeah, but some more than others. This team has a stigma, deserved or not. We are not a team known for paying big contracts and making big splashes. Dallas doesn't win playoffs either, but have clout and will put up some cash. Can get a big contract for a bad team in JAX but pay less in taxes. Add in a potentially lame duck year for the head coach, uncertainty has to play a role. Stability can be a good thing, be it an NFL player or an accountant. 

I would be shocked if we are not after the top FA lineman.

I think 2 top Offensive Lineman FA are in our future.

(01-09-2021, 03:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And just think, before you know it he'll be coming out with the annual what we've got to spend in free agency article.

$87,000,00 whittled down to $11.75

The funny thing is we didn't get one of those last season and the team spent more than ever in free agency.

I guess if we see one of those articles in February we'll know that little will be done.

Honestly, though I wouldn't try and figure out Mike Brown's thought process is, it will just give you a headache.

 

(01-09-2021, 02:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He's already pushing "develop the tackles and guards we have" and go Defense in the first 3 rds. of the draft. I don't care if they load up on  defense in the draft, but they better stick with the plan to address the Oline in FA.

I get your point and agree to a point. We DO need to improve our personnel through player acquisition in FA and the draft. No doubt. 

BUT...everybody is happy to see Turner go because he didn't "develop the tackles and guards we have." Maybe Pollack can.

I'd think that he will get busy evaluating our current talent pretty damn soon. Then he'll evaluate the talent available in FA. If he thinks a FA can improve us at RT, RG, LG, or even C and LT, he might give Duke his list of which FAs best fit what he wants to do on offense and are worth pursuing. 

Then, he'll move on to evaluating the talent coming out in the draft. That might even include RBs, not just OL. 

I mean, I presume that's the plan. It's what I'd do anyway, if I had Pollack's knowledge and experience.. 
Finally, I think we'd all agree that Hobson talks out of his ass alot of the time. Same as the rest of us.  :andy:

You know, one of the greatest ways to play defense is to keep the damn ball and not be going three and out all the time. And you do that with a first rate offensive line.

Furthermore there is nothing more important for this franchise than to protect Burrow in a consistent and effective way. I would never neglect defense, but I think we can help both sides of the ball.

I would acquire a proven, very good lineman on both offense and defense in free agency. I would then be maneuvering to get up and get Sewell in the first round, and concentrate on the best defensive pick in the second round, which will also be a fairly high choice. I might also put a package of third and fourth round picks together with a second round choice from 2022 to try and get up and get a top deep threat receiver.

I know it's a lot easier to sit around and talk this stuff than to make it happen, but that's shat I would be trying to do.

(01-09-2021, 02:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He's already pushing "develop the tackles and guards we have" and go Defense in the first 3 rds. of the draft. I don't care if they load up on  defense in the draft, but they better stick with the plan to address the Oline in FA.

how many top level draft guys did we draft last time we brought pollack in?

Yeah, if we're abandoning our plans to do work on the Oline in FA that seems like a very bad idea to me. Basically, drafted players other than Penei Sewell probably aren't going to be good enough in their first year anyways (not mention our record of drafted players getting injured in their first year). FA makes a ton of sense. It didn't have to be more than a couple of players, but they have to make the cuts to have the money to get a quality offensive lineman or two in FA. If you don't, you're just letting Burrow take even more hits.

And drafting defense is fine BTW. Eventually we can build a great D (which does help the oline in the sense that you're more likely to have the lead and can run the ball instead of passing 40+ times a game). After this year we better move on from Lou A if he hasn't shown something impressive too. I still can't believe he didn't get fired already.

Was it Hobson who reported that Turner had moved from the sideline and had begun watching games from the booth?

I think it was either Hobson or, and I know they are virtual opposites, Elise Jesse. Anyone remember the article I'm talking about?

(01-10-2021, 02:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Could be, I guess it's all in how you read it. He was asked what the Bengals should do in the early rounds of the draft, and to me saying "Defense, Defense, Defense" means he thinks we should go defense 3 times. Maybe I took him wrong. If Sewell is there and they go defense, There's not much defending that.

If the actually do go defense all in Rds 1-3, I hope it's two guys who can rush the passer and a CB/LB.

With that said, the Bengals are not spending much on the offense right now, and some of their bigger contracts on offense are replaceable.


They don't have a single offensive guy making $10+ mill in 2021.
The top 10 are:
- Boyd ($9.8 mill)
- Burrow ($8.2 mill)
- Mixon ($8.1 mill)
- Hart ($6.9 mill)
- Hopkins ($6.5 mill)
- Uzomah ($6.3 mill)
- Williams ($4.8 mill)
- Bernard ($4.7 mill)
- Price ($3.7 mill)
- Finney ($3.5 mill)

It would be wise of them to cut bait with some (Hart, Uzomah, Bernard, Finney/Price) and use that saved cap to sign a really good OL or two.
That would help justify going defense on Days 1 and 2 in the draft.

If I know my bengals I predict 1 or 2 o lineman in free agency. One good name ,the other will be a who's that kind of guy. 1st round jamar chase for greens replacement. 2nd and 3rd round will be defense. D line and maybe linebacker again? Or double d lineman