(01-23-2021, 02:45 AM)TheFan Wrote: People seem to be ignoring the big difference in quality of player when comparing top 5 vs 15ish. There's a big difference. Obviously you can find players who did better than top 5 but generally it's a lot easier to find a great player with your top 5 pick.

Really? I see alot of great players in NFL that were draftwd top 15..dont but what u are selling. 

(01-23-2021, 05:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Really? I see alot of great players in NFL that were draftwd top 15..dont but what u are selling. 

On a year to year basis top 5 is better than 15+. Again, you can pick and choose players but in general 5ish is much better than 15ish. 

Id rather have elite skill players and an average line than an elite line and average skill guys.

However, I'd rather have a good line with bad skill guys than good skill guys with a bad line.

That's a long way of saying that if the line is addressed properly in free agency to where there is only one below average starter, I'd take Chase over Sewell.

One thing people don’t seem to be focusing on is an elite WR will actually help the OL. Tee, Boyd, and Tate are all great at making contested catches, but none of them get wide open on a consistent basis.

(01-23-2021, 09:21 PM)TheFan Wrote: On a year to year basis top 5 is better than 15+. Again, you can pick and choose players but in general 5ish is much better than 15ish. 

I You said big difference between top 5 and top 15 not just better and I  dont but if you have stats over history of draft to support your statement I like see them

They are saying one of the deepest drafts at WR and Tackle could see bengals looking at DE, CB and LB in 1st if Sewell is gone.

(01-24-2021, 12:33 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I You said big difference between top 5 and top 15 not just better and I  dont but if you have stats over history of draft to support your statement I like see them

If someone said, "i'm going to give you an NFL team, and these are the guys you have to pick from". Which team would you choose?

Team A
QB: Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, RG3, Jared Goff
RB: Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette, Trent Richardson
WR: AJ Green, Sammy Watkins, Amari Cooper, Corey Davis
OT: Trent Williams, Matt Kalil, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson
G: Brandon Scherff
C:
DE: Joey Bosa, Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Zeke Ansah
DT: Ndomukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Marcel Dareus
LB: Von Miller, Khalil Mack
CB: Patrick Peterson, Jalen Ramsey
S: Eric Berry

Team B
QB: EJ Manuel
RB: Melvin Gordon
WR: Corey Coleman
TE: OJ Howard
OT: Nate Solder, Taylor Decker, Ja'Wuan James, Justin Pugh
G: Zack Martin, Mike Iupati
C: Mike Pouncey, Maurkice Pouncey, Ryan Kelly
DE: JPP, Derrick Morgan, Ryan Kerrigan, Bruce Irvin, Quinton Coples, Arik Armstead, Shaq Lawson
DT: Jonathan Allen, Corey Liuget
LB: Melvin Ingram, Jarvis Jones, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosley, 
CB: Marcus Peters, Marlon Humphrey, Dre Kirkpatrick, Prince Amukamara, Adoree Jackson
S: Eric Reid, Kenny Vaccaro, Calvin Pryor, Malik Hooker, Keanu Neal

Smith, who is no slouch, would be my 3rd choice among the top 3 WRs. Chase and Waddle are #1 & #2. Waddle was Bama's #1 guy before getting hurt. And Chase...it's the Burrow connection.

(01-24-2021, 01:52 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If someone said, "i'm going to give you an NFL team, and these are the guys you have to pick from". Which team would you choose?

Team A
QB: Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, RG3, Jared Goff
RB: Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette, Trent Richardson
WR: AJ Green, Sammy Watkins, Amari Cooper, Corey Davis
OT: Trent Williams, Matt Kalil, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson
G: Brandon Scherff
C:
DE: Joey Bosa, Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Zeke Ansah
DT: Ndomukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Marcel Dareus
LB: Von Miller, Khalil Mack
CB: Patrick Peterson, Jalen Ramsey
S: Eric Berry

Team B
QB: EJ Manuel
RB: Melvin Gordon
WR: Corey Coleman
TE: OJ Howard
OT: Nate Solder, Taylor Decker, Ja'Wuan James, Justin Pugh
G: Zack Martin, Mike Iupati
C: Mike Pouncey, Maurkice Pouncey, Ryan Kelly
DE: JPP, Derrick Morgan, Ryan Kerrigan, Bruce Irvin, Quinton Coples, Arik Armstead, Shaq Lawson
DT: Jonathan Allen, Corey Liuget
LB: Melvin Ingram, Jarvis Jones, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosley, 
CB: Marcus Peters, Marlon Humphrey, Dre Kirkpatrick, Prince Amukamara, Adoree Jackson
S: Eric Reid, Kenny Vaccaro, Calvin Pryor, Malik Hooker, Keanu Neal

Top 5 player range should look better but again there are very good players and misses on both you 5/15 picks. The point was big differences, there are some and there not. it a bit crazy there thinking that quality nfl players are gone by 15 .. and if we are talking misses 2 of those 4 WRs were misses on great differences but LBs are studs so maybe we go LB it seems a more sure bet over WR from your list dating back a decade or so. Finally this is not pick 5 say for pick 15 straight up , it is pick 5 for 15 and other pick or picks early so if a team does not have an absolute lock on a guy at 5 pick range it seems logic they might trade back for more quality picks.

(01-24-2021, 09:09 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Top 5 player range should look better but again there are very good players and misses on both you 5/15 picks. The point was big differences, there are some and there not. it a bit crazy there thinking that quality nfl players are gone by 15 .. and if we are talking misses 2 of those 4 WRs were misses on great differences but LBs are studs so maybe we go LB it seems a more sure bet over WR from your list dating back a decade or so. Finally this is not pick 5 say for pick 15 straight up  , it is pick 5 for 15 and other pick or picks early so if a team does not have an absolute lock on a guy at 5 pick range it seems logic they might trade back for more quality picks.

Can all that bullshit you just typed and answer this question. 


If someone said, "i'm going to give you an NFL team, and these are the guys you have to pick from". Which team would you choose?


Team A
QB: Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, RG3, Jared Goff
RB: Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette, Trent Richardson
WR: AJ Green, Sammy Watkins, Amari Cooper, Corey Davis
OT: Trent Williams, Matt Kalil, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson
G: Brandon Scherff
C:
DE: Joey Bosa, Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Zeke Ansah
DT: Ndomukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Marcel Dareus
LB: Von Miller, Khalil Mack
CB: Patrick Peterson, Jalen Ramsey
S: Eric Berry

Team B
QB: EJ Manuel
RB: Melvin Gordon
WR: Corey Coleman
TE: OJ Howard
OT: Nate Solder, Taylor Decker, Ja'Wuan James, Justin Pugh
G: Zack Martin, Mike Iupati
C: Mike Pouncey, Maurkice Pouncey, Ryan Kelly
DE: JPP, Derrick Morgan, Ryan Kerrigan, Bruce Irvin, Quinton Coples, Arik Armstead, Shaq Lawson
DT: Jonathan Allen, Corey Liuget
LB: Melvin Ingram, Jarvis Jones, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosley, 
CB: Marcus Peters, Marlon Humphrey, Dre Kirkpatrick, Prince Amukamara, Adoree Jackson
S: Eric Reid, Kenny Vaccaro, Calvin Pryor, Malik Hooker, Keanu Neal

(01-23-2021, 05:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Really? I see alot of great players in NFL that were draftwd top 15..dont but what u are selling. 

Lol... well, the fact that literally three times as many players have been drafted in the top 15 as the top 5 in NFL history might have something to do with that.

(01-24-2021, 12:36 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: They are saying one of the deepest drafts at WR and Tackle  could see bengals looking at DE, CB and LB in 1st if Sewell is gone.

Using NFLMockdraftdatabase.com's consensus big board, there are 11 WR's in the Top 100 vs 13 Edge's and 13  CB's.  The only one of those positions that that would be true of is LB with 8, but that position is in nowhere near the demand the other 3 are.  

(01-24-2021, 03:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: Using NFLMockdraftdatabase.com's consensus big board, there are 11 WR's in the Top 100 vs 13 Edge's and 13  CB's.  The only one of those positions that that would be true of is LB with 8, but that position is in nowhere near the demand the other 3 are.  

For use LB is still a concern especially if we don;t resign Bynes.. if he leaves we have a  major hole to fill and we still have  unproven players as  starters.. especially compared to our top  2 starting WRs . we can afford a mid round  WR  but we need a impact LB .. as for Edge rusher if we resign Lawson  that is less of a need if we don;t I think outside of Oline DE top concern in draft.  We have some CBs coming back but  need to sign Waynes or Jackson I feel if not it goes up the board also.

So  FA will impact our decision making but looking at Roster.. LB is still not a strong position, I would argue weaker than WR, CB and top end weaker than DE but DE lacks depth for sure.   Im sure Bengals will look at Parson's probably best impact LB in a few years coming out of College and very likely be gone by 10.

(01-22-2021, 10:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Again... this is great but deep balls require a pocket.
A pocket requires an online.

We are building the team backwards if we take Chase. 

Build the line then get weapons then get the QB. The Bengals are following the late year Al Davis strategy while the rest of the division has awesome lines.

Free Agency comes before the draft, so O-line in Free Agency, Chase in the draft?

(01-24-2021, 12:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Can all that bullshit you just typed and answer this question. 


If someone said, "i'm going to give you an NFL team, and these are the guys you have to pick from". Which team would you choose?

Unsure of the criteria you used to man your teams, but here's what I did:

I looked at the last 10 drafts and broke the top 15 in half (1-7, 8-15) and came up with these 2 teams:

QB Andrew Luck

RB Saquan Barkley
WR Julio Jones/ AJ Green
TE Mike Williams
OG Lane Johnson/ Quenton Nelson
OT Trent Williams/ Ronnie Stanley
C Branden Schreff
DE Vonn Miller/ Chase Young
DT Ndoma Suh/ Gerald Mc Coy
LB Bradley Chubb/ Devin White/ Khalil Mack
CB Jalen Ramsey Patrick Peterson
S Eric Berry/ Jamal Adams


QB Patrick Mahomes
RB Christian McCafferty
WR Mike Evans/ OBJ
TE TJ Hockenson
OG Andrus Peat/ Jack Conklin
OT Tyron Smith/ Laremy Tunstil
C Mike Pouncey
DE Brandon Graham/ JJ Watt
DT Ed Oliver/ Aaron Donald
LB Luke Kuechey/ Anthony Barr/ Roquan Smith 
CB Stephon Gilmore/ Marshawn Lattimore
S Earl Thomas/ Minkah Fitzpatrick

(01-25-2021, 02:44 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Free Agency comes before the draft, so O-line in Free Agency, Chase in the draft?

If they have it built with good players, absolutely, but you can't sign 2 guys like XSF and say, the O-line if fixed lets draft a WR.

They sign two top tier O-linemen, then you can draft whoever.

(01-25-2021, 03:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unsure of the criteria you used to man your teams, but here's what I did:

I looked at the last 10 drafts and broke the top 15 in half (1-7, 8-15) and came up with these 2 teams:

QB Andrew Luck

RB Saquan Barkley
WR Julio Jones/ AJ Green
TE Mike Williams
OG Lane Johnson/ Quenton Nelson
OT Trent Williams/ Ronnie Stanley
C Branden Schreff
DE Vonn Miller/ Chase Young
DT Ndoma Suh/ Gerald Mc Coy
LB Bradley Chubb/ Devin White/ Khalil Mack
CB Jalen Ramsey Patrick Peterson
S Eric Berry/ Jamal Adams


QB Patrick Mahomes
RB Christian McCafferty
WR Mike Evans/ OBJ
TE TJ Hockenson
OG Andrus Peat/ Jack Conklin
OT Tyron Smith/ Laremy Tunstil
C Mike Pouncey
DE Brandon Graham/ JJ Watt
DT Ed Oliver/ Aaron Donald
LB Luke Kuechey/ Anthony Barr/ Roquan Smith 
CB Stephon Gilmore/ Marshawn Lattimore
S Earl Thomas/ Minkah Fitzpatrick

Second team has probably the 3 best players (Mahomes/JJ Watt/Donald) but the 1st team I think is overall better.

I will admit that a duo of Julio/AJ does sound awfully unstoppable.

How odd is it that on your 1st team, 4 of them came from the first 7 picks of the 2011 draft? That was a hell of a draft. Only way to fail in the first half of that 1st round was to overdraft a QB.

If the Bengals could somehow trade down with a team like Carolina for their 8th & 39th pick and select Kyle Pitts and then trade our 2nd along with Carolina's 39th to get Rashod Bateman our offense would be pretty unstoppable as long as we were able to find a high quality G and LT in free agency.
I almost like Rashod Bateman as much as Ja'Marr Chase.

(01-23-2021, 11:46 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Remember when we had CHAD, HOUZ & HENRY playing together.. that was WR glory. 

Yes, I remember and it was.

(01-23-2021, 11:53 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This. Burrow was talking in an interview awhile back that it took time to get on the same page as his new receivers, becuase he had to learn not only their timing, but where they liked to catch the ball. AJ want's it at his belt buckle area. Tate wants it away from his body so he can use his strong hands. Boyd likes it somewhere else. He will already have this knowledge with Chase. My first pick is obviously Sewell, if he is not there my 2nd choice is Chase. Then Smith. One of the three should be there.  Get a couple of line upgrades in FA and be done with it already.

I feel the same way, well said Sled.

(01-25-2021, 09:29 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: If the Bengals could somehow trade down with a team like Carolina for their 8th & 39th pick and select Kyle Pitts and then trade our 2nd along with Carolina's 39th to get Rashod Bateman our offense would be pretty unstoppable as long as we were able to find a high quality G and LT in free agency.
I almost like Rashod Bateman as much as Ja'Marr Chase.

I just don;t see your scenario helping our team enough.. we need more picks not less, trade back fine but picking a TE than trying to trade back into 1st round to pick a WR and lose the advantage of the getting the extra pick does do it for me with the holes we have on this defense plus logic says we need to get three good lineman added to this team, 2 via FA and 1 via draft.  so why not trade back take Pitts or Smith or Chase if there, then pick a DE and Oline with two high 2nd round picks, then come back with a speed WR in 3rd round.  You have to stop teams scoring besides scoring points.. a balance team (offense/defense)  gives you a better chance to win on a weekly  basis.