(11-02-2015, 07:03 PM)!!fredtoast Wrote: It has nothing to do with the life goals comment.  It is just absurd to say there is no difference between a 12-4 season and a 4-12 season.

Teams recognize the difference.

Fans recognize the difference.

Pretty much everyone gets it except you.  I would be embarrassed if I could not tell any difference between a 12-4 team and a 4-12 team.

Who said there isn't a difference between a 12-4 and 4-12 team? You certainly aren't the second coming of Stephen Hawking just because you can recognize that!!

We were debating the meaning of success in the NFL, and for the Bengals. I "get it" perfectly fine, your position, I just think it is dead wrong and justifies a loser mentality.....

Which derives from the original post where you are defending someone bashing Bengals fans for not believing in their team......which now makes sense because your "beliefs" in "success" are at an extremely oxygen depriving low level!!! :crazy:

(11-02-2015, 07:43 PM)ShowMeUrTDs Wrote: Who said there isn't a difference between a 12-4 and 4-12 team? 

Just this one.

(11-02-2015, 04:30 PM)ShowMeUrTDs Wrote: There is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team,

(11-02-2015, 08:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just this one.

There is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team dumped in the first round of the playoffs, neither will be Champion, and if that is truly the goal then both are failures!


Nice try with the typical dishonest politician stuff, take a fragment of someone's sentence out of context to use in your argument. It just illuminates the weakness in your position!!!!

Never said there was not a difference in a 4-12 team compared to a 12-4 team period. 

(11-02-2015, 09:25 PM)ShowMeUrTDs Wrote: There is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team dumped in the first round of the playoffs, neither will be Champion, and if that is truly the goal then both are failures!


Nice try with the typical dishonest politician stuff, take a fragment of someone's sentence out of context to use in your argument. It just illuminates the weakness in your position!!!!

Never said there was not a difference in a 4-12 team compared to a 12-4 team period. 

Nothing dishonest about my quote.

It is only dishonest to take a quote out of context when the context changes the meaning.  Nothing in the additional context you added changed the fact that you clearly said there is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team.


Talk about "politician stuff", you got stone cold busted saying something that you claimed you never said, and then you try to weasel your way out of it.  I would have respected you more if you had been man enough to stand behind what you originally said.

(11-02-2015, 09:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing dishonest about my quote.

It is only dishonest to take a quote out of context when the context changes the meaning.  Nothing in the additional context you added changed the fact that you clearly said there is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team.


Talk about "politician stuff", you got stone cold busted saying something that you claimed you never said, and then you try to weasel your way out of it.  I would have respected you more if you had been man enough to stand behind what you originally said.

The context absolutely changed!! Your use of the fragment suggests I argued there is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team in any way. Which is not at all what I said, my quote stated there was no difference between the two if the 12-4 team is dumped in the first round of the playoffs in terms of accomplishing the goal of winning a championship!!

I am man enough to stand by my arguments any day, and not woman enough to change someone else's argument to better fit my own!!

Media bias is always interesting to read about for a guy in the media. I grew up on the Southside of Chicago where White Sox fans would measure the inches of copy printed in the two papers and compare it to the Cubs. I also grew up with the Jordan Bulls, where nearly nothing negative could be written. I grew up with it, and I get.

Now I work in the media. I look out to my former residence in Green Bay and see fans going crazy over a negative story on Letroy Guion, who the Journal-Sentinel uncovered is basically a bad guy who has gotten off previous crimes due to his status as an NFL player. Packers fans can't believe the local media would dare write a bad thing about their 6-0 team! But largely, you won't see too many bad stories on the Packers. Why? They're winning.

I feel we at Cincinnati.com are fair. We've addressed the problems in the secondary and run game. I've talked to Clark Harris after each blocked kick (more on that Wed in the Walkthru). We addressed Bodine's bad snaps in camp (we didn't get to him today). But when a team is 7-0, the best team in nearly 30 years -- let's be real, most of the media is going to be favorable because that's what happens when you win.

Now, as for the national types. I get you there. Most national publications picked the Bengals to fall off (we didn't, because we knew). But in reality, those guys don't know much. I'm not saying they don't work, but they're trying to consume info on every team, have a #HOTTAKE, and they have their preconceived notions. Winning changes that. They're 7-0. Honestly, they should be 9-0 going into that SNF game against Arizona, which - guess what - will be billed as a "potential Super Bowl preview!" and there will be a ton of national love. Just the nature of the beast in that regard.

(11-02-2015, 09:51 PM)ShowMeUrTDs Wrote: The context absolutely changed!! Your use of the fragment suggests I argued there is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team in any way. Which is not at all what I said, my quote stated there was no difference between the two if the 12-4 team is dumped in the first round of the playoffs in terms of accomplishing the goal of winning a championship!!

I am man enough to stand by my arguments any day, and not woman enough to change someone else's argument to better fit my own!!

Sorry, but the context does not change the fact that you can't tell the difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team.  Even if the 12-4 team loses in the playoffs you are clueless about football if you can't see any difference between the two.

(11-02-2015, 09:51 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Most national publications picked the Bengals to fall off (we didn't, because we knew). But in reality, those guys don't know much. I'm not saying they don't work, but they're trying to consume info on every team,

This.  Bengal fans are always ripping game announcers because they don't know every little detail about the Bengals, but none of us know as much about every single team in the league as we do about the Bengals.

If all the Bengal fans here picked the final record of all 32 teams they would miss on a lot of predictions also.

(11-02-2015, 09:51 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Media bias is always interesting to read about for a guy in the media. I grew up on the Southside of Chicago where White Sox fans would measure the inches of copy printed in the two papers and compare it to the Cubs. I also grew up with the Jordan Bulls, where nearly nothing negative could be written. I grew up with it, and I get.

Now I work in the media. I look out to my former residence in Green Bay and see fans going crazy over a negative story on Letroy Guion, who the Journal-Sentinel uncovered is basically a bad guy who has gotten off previous crimes due to his status as an NFL player. Packers fans can't believe the local media would dare write a bad thing about their 6-0 team! But largely, you won't see too many bad stories on the Packers. Why? They're winning.

I feel we at Cincinnati.com are fair. We've addressed the problems in the secondary and run game. I've talked to Clark Harris after each blocked kick (more on that Wed in the Walkthru). We addressed Bodine's bad snaps in camp (we didn't get to him today). But when a team is 7-0, the best team in nearly 30 years -- let's be real, most of the media is going to be favorable because that's what happens when you win.

Now, as for the national types. I get you there. Most national publications picked the Bengals to fall off (we didn't, because we knew). But in reality, those guys don't know much. I'm not saying they don't work, but they're trying to consume info on every team, have a #HOTTAKE, and they have their preconceived notions. Winning changes that. They're 7-0. Honestly, they should be 9-0 going into that SNF game against Arizona, which - guess what - will be billed as a "potential Super Bowl preview!" and there will be a ton of national love. Just the nature of the beast in that regard.

I agree that the national media has a lot of teams to cover and can't have extensive knowledge of them all, all the time.  But there were so many 6 - 10 predictions for the Bengals before the season started that I really thought they were all just repeating each other without doing any research.  I remember up until a few years ago, there would still be articles about the Bengals and their discipline problem, even long after they fixed it.  I think that was an easy topic for a lazy sports writer who would rather play golf that day.  Just copy statistics from the thousand other articles, trash the Bengals, and you are basically done.

(11-02-2015, 01:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Anyone who did not pick the Bengals to at a minimum make the playoffs proved they are a moron, but they will hit the mute button and not own up to it now.

What?! That's ridiculous. Somebody is a "moron" if they predicted the Bengals could possibly miss the playoffs? That's pretty harsh when talking about a random prediction before dozens of players around the league happened to suffer injuries and the Bengals are one of the least injured teams among the 32. Not to mention the entire "any given Sunday" aspect of the game, I see some teams that have a handful of wins but have actually looked pretty impressive this season. This team could be right around .500 right now if we were as banged up as some of the other squads. People need to stop tooting their own horn over a prediction like this.

Saying that anybody that incorrectly predicted the Bengals season is a "moron" is sheer ignorance, and likely one of the most ignorant things that has been said on these boards, and that's really saying something. I'm sure you've been wrong about things in the past too, what a "moron".

(11-02-2015, 08:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just this one.

You and Luvnit are the best fans ever and everybody else is just a big bag of dummies.

My boy Deion Sanders!

My son went to and graduated from the same high school Deion Sanders went to. Living here, Sanders obviously get a lot of print.

I saw a clip of him going on about the interception Dalton threw in the end zone. How horrible it was, AND that the ONLY reason the Bengals won, was because his boy 'Big Ben', (Sanders lovingly calls him Big Ben) was 'rusty' and let them back into the game! lol

He never mentioned the fact that Andy has 4 picks in 7 games, and Fat Boy, has 5 picks in 4 games!

Another reason why I despise talking heads!

(11-03-2015, 02:33 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: My boy Deion Sanders!

My son went to and graduated from the same high school Deion Sanders went to. Living here, Sanders obviously get a lot of print.

I saw a clip of him going on about the interception Dalton threw in the end zone. How horrible it was, AND that the ONLY reason the Bengals won, was because his boy 'Big Ben', (Sanders lovingly calls him Big Ben) was 'rusty' and let them back into the game! lol

He never mentioned the fact that Andy has 4 picks in 7 games, and Fat Boy, has 5 picks in 4 games!

Another reason why I despise talking heads!

Heard this as well. I'm used to it at this point and I accept the fact there will be no credit given by some until the Bengals perform in the playoffs. Just the way it is.

(11-03-2015, 09:52 AM)djs7685 Wrote: You and Luvnit are the best fans ever and everybody else is just a big bag of dummies.

I not surprised that you also can not see any difference between a 12-4 team a 4-12 team?

I wonder if Colin Cowherd is still waxing about how throwing interceptions doesn't matter and that is why Luck is so good.

(11-03-2015, 08:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I not surprised that you also can not see any difference between a 12-4 team a 4-12 team?

I'm not surprised that you keep using strawman arguments because you have nothing else.

I've never said anything remotely close to that. I have no problem being a dick to people, but there's no need to call the dude a moron when you can obviously see what he was saying and you took his original point out of context. He even re-posted his quotes showing the context of his statement before.

No need for you and Luvnit to be running around calling people morons because you both think you're such superior fans and root for the team the "right way" constantly. It's old, tired schtick.

(11-02-2015, 09:51 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Media bias is always interesting to read about for a guy in the media. I grew up on the Southside of Chicago where White Sox fans would measure the inches of copy printed in the two papers and compare it to the Cubs. I also grew up with the Jordan Bulls, where nearly nothing negative could be written. I grew up with it, and I get.

Now I work in the media. I look out to my former residence in Green Bay and see fans going crazy over a negative story on Letroy Guion, who the Journal-Sentinel uncovered is basically a bad guy who has gotten off previous crimes due to his status as an NFL player. Packers fans can't believe the local media would dare write a bad thing about their 6-0 team! But largely, you won't see too many bad stories on the Packers. Why? They're winning.

I feel we at Cincinnati.com are fair. We've addressed the problems in the secondary and run game. I've talked to Clark Harris after each blocked kick (more on that Wed in the Walkthru). We addressed Bodine's bad snaps in camp (we didn't get to him today). But when a team is 7-0, the best team in nearly 30 years -- let's be real, most of the media is going to be favorable because that's what happens when you win.

Now, as for the national types. I get you there. Most national publications picked the Bengals to fall off (we didn't, because we knew). But in reality, those guys don't know much. I'm not saying they don't work, but they're trying to consume info on every team, have a #HOTTAKE, and they have their preconceived notions. Winning changes that. They're 7-0. Honestly, they should be 9-0 going into that SNF game against Arizona, which - guess what - will be billed as a "potential Super Bowl preview!" and there will be a ton of national love. Just the nature of the beast in that regard.

I agree with you that the national types don't know much.  If they did, they wouldn't have predicted a fall off for this team.  We should take what these guys have to say with a grain of salt.  

(11-02-2015, 01:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think media bias can also sway fan bias.

Look at the pre-season when the media ignores the team who had the best pre-season and most pick Ravens or Steelers to win the AFCN. Then, many said no 5th year in a row.

Next thing I know, I see some of our fans spouting the same crap which based on the facts of talent, guys returning for us and adding MJ back made no sense as both Steelers and Ravens lost more starters.

I am still waiting for all of those experts and our fans to step up and now and say they were wrong mightily and used reputation versus the reality of rosters this year to make their picks. Anyone who did not pick the Bengals to at a minimum make the playoffs proved they are a moron, but they will hit the mute button and not own up to it now.

not only were some of our fans echoeing this mess, they believed it and made threads...what is more telling to me is the lack of these ppl contributing to the boards since the bengals have been winning...now its just a comment here and there to attack another poster. watch if we lose one game boards will go crazy with sky is falling. super trolls if you ask me.

(11-04-2015, 09:27 AM)djs7685 Wrote:  there's no need to call the dude a moron when you can obviously see what he was saying and you took his original point out of context. He even re-posted his quotes showing the context of his statement before.

Except the context did ont chnage a single thing.

After the season and before the playoffs begin if you ask him if he can see any difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team he will say "No difference."

There is nothing wrong with taking a comment out of its full context when the context DOES NOT CHANGE THE MEANING.

(11-04-2015, 11:06 AM)CincyProduct Wrote: not only were some of our fans echoeing this mess, they believed it and made threads...what is more telling to me is the lack of these ppl contributing to the boards since the bengals have been winning...now its just a comment here and there to attack another poster. watch if we lose one game boards will go crazy with sky is falling. super trolls if you ask me.

No.

Some people just believed the Ravens or Steelers would be legitimate contenders because of their own analysis and/or prediction.

People need to stop the bullshit with saying that because my opinion and an analysts opinion are the same, it means that my opinion is BECAUSE of the analyst's opinion, because it's not. Is this really difficult to follow?

Before the season began, I honestly thought the Ravens would be better than they are right now. Why? My own analysis of their offseason. Did I believe that because some random media analyst say they were going to be good? Not one bit.

This isn't rocket science folks. Let's stop pretending that only the homers form their own opinions on everything.

(11-04-2015, 11:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Except the context did ont chnage a single thing.

After the season and before the playoffs begin if you ask him if he can see any difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team he will say "No difference."

There is nothing wrong with taking a comment out of its full context when the context DOES NOT CHANGE THE MEANING.

There is no difference between a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team dumped in the first round of the playoffs, neither will be Champion, and if that is truly the goal then both are failures!

That is the guy's quote. The goal is to win a championship, nothing else in this specific context.

Did the 4-12 team win a championship? No.
Did the 12-4 team win a championship? No.

Okay, so given the context, there is "no difference" between the teams.

However, he went on to state that there are obviously differences between a 4-12 team and 12-4 team if you're looking at things past "did they win a championship?".

As I have said earlier in other threads, comprehension skills have been out the window on this board lately. It's such a mess. I apologize if you can't simply follow along here. This one isn't very difficult to process.