(08-10-2015, 10:49 AM)Benton Wrote: Right now, we need the help more at DT than DE. Hopefully MJ is back on the field and Hardison can provide a few downs inside.

(08-10-2015, 11:20 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: True, but you have to think that all the talk of Geno looking like the best player on the field will cure that.

Atkins tore it up with Peko not doing much more than holding his place (which is what a NT is supposed to do), so I'm hoping that Hardison can provide a nice spark and can cause disruption in the middle.

(08-10-2015, 11:53 AM)Benton Wrote: I hope so. My big concern is we just don't have a lot of depth at some positions and DL is probably the worst. We're stacked on OL. We're fine at CB and S. We're ok at most of the rest. But if Geno or MJ get injured, we're back to no QB pressure this season. I like Hardison. I'm hoping he can get some time rotating in at DT so that if Geno does go down, we're at least in a little better shape than if Hardison is playing for MJ and we have to rely on Still to step up.

(08-10-2015, 12:36 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm surprised to hear this. 

The Bengals brought back Pat Sims and MJ.  Both are at least what you would call "upper half" of the league in terms of talent. 

They have Geno, Peko, Brandon Thompson, Still, and now Hardison working at DT.  Thompson has been solid, ditto Peko, and both are better when used on a rotational basis.  Still might be what they hoped for years ago when they took him in the second round now that his mind is clear. 

They have Hunt, Clarke, and Gilberry to rotate in behind Dunlap and the aforementioned MJ at DE.  Gilberry has proven to be very effective when used on a rotational basis and Hunt/Clark have flashed in their brief stints on the field.

Aside from the return of the "rotation" (raise your hands if you saw the Dline fading as the season progressed), which is CRITICAL to the team's success, the biggest thing I like about this squad is there is only one rookie.  Geno, Peko, Sims, Dunlap, MJ, Gilberry, and Thompson all have real game experience.  Hunt and Clark are somewhat inexperienced, but they have made it through a season and both have worked tirelessly to improve their strength and conditioning.  Rookies rarely contribute their first season as a DT.  There are exceptions, but I have seen team after team draft a DT early and plug them in only to see them struggle mightily.  I think, aside from QB, that DT might be the toughest transition from college to pro. 

Only Hardison is a rookie, and the Bengals don't need to count on him for really anything this year.  If he gets opportunities and produces, great.  But he is going to be slowly eased in this year. 

(08-10-2015, 12:36 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm surprised to hear this. 

The Bengals brought back Pat Sims and MJ.  Both are at least what you would call "upper half" of the league in terms of talent. 

They have Geno, Peko, Brandon Thompson, Still, and now Hardison working at DT.  Thompson has been solid, ditto Peko, and both are better when used on a rotational basis.  Still might be what they hoped for years ago when they took him in the second round now that his mind is clear. 

They have Hunt, Clarke, and Gilberry to rotate in behind Dunlap and the aforementioned MJ at DE.  Gilberry has proven to be very effective when used on a rotational basis and Hunt/Clark have flashed in their brief stints on the field.

Aside from the return of the "rotation" (raise your hands if you saw the Dline fading as the season progressed), which is CRITICAL to the team's success, the biggest thing I like about this squad is there is only one rookie.  Geno, Peko, Sims, Dunlap, MJ, Gilberry, and Thompson all have real game experience.  Hunt and Clark are somewhat inexperienced, but they have made it through a season and both have worked tirelessly to improve their strength and conditioning.  Rookies rarely contribute their first season as a DT.  There are exceptions, but I have seen team after team draft a DT early and plug them in only to see them struggle mightily.  I think, aside from QB, that DT might be the toughest transition from college to pro. 

Only Hardison is a rookie, and the Bengals don't need to count on him for really anything this year.  If he gets opportunities and produces, great.  But he is going to be slowly eased in this year. 

(08-10-2015, 11:53 AM)Benton Wrote: I hope so. My big concern is we just don't have a lot of depth at some positions and DL is probably the worst. We're stacked on OL. We're fine at CB and S. We're ok at most of the rest. But if Geno or MJ get injured, we're back to no QB pressure this season. I like Hardison. I'm hoping he can get some time rotating in at DT so that if Geno does go down, we're at least in a little better shape than if Hardison is playing for MJ and we have to rely on Still to step up.

(08-10-2015, 01:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I keep forgetting about Sims.

That makes Peko's case even weaker for staying on the team, so cut him and put the money towards AJ.

(08-10-2015, 01:36 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, that's my point. Geno is the only one proven who can provide consistent pressure. If he goes down we're left with Peko (who I think can provide some help, but needs to be in their sparingly now), Thompson (who is good, but not really proven he can play a majority of downs at a high level) and Still (who — through nothing anyone faults him for — hasn't done anything yet).

So, to me, if Geno goes down we're expecting Thompson to provide that kind of production and I don't see it happening. To get any kind of consistent pressure when he's in, I think he'll have to rotate with someone... which is why I hope Hardison is free to use as a DT. Because as much as I like Peko and Still, I don't expect either of them to make much of an impact for us this year.

With the DEs, I feel better about it heading into this season than last. MJ, Dunlap and Gilberry makes me happy. I'm hopeful Clarke develops. Hunt is taking up a spot, but somebody somewhere is trying really hard to make that one work, so we're stuck with a wasted roster spot for another season. But even with them, I dunno if Gilberry and Clarke are enough to step up for a majority of the season if there's an injury. And Hunt I guess could try out at TE. Or something.

(08-10-2015, 01:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Forgetting about Sims and Dunlap here and Will Clarke who can play both DE and DT.

If all the injuries happen that you describe we will be hurting like every team.

But we are much better off this year than we were last season at this time.

And who knows if Hunt starts to show up. We could go from the worst sack team to one of the best.

Dunlap should of had 15+ sacks last season if he could just finish off the QB...

(08-10-2015, 03:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know a lot of people feel this way about Peko and even Leon Hall, but they both are extremely valuable to the team.  This isn't just leadership, but experience.  Peko is a very effective NT, but was asked to play almost every snap.  He did, but clearly wore down as the season went on. 

I am hopeful that on second and long and anything but third and relatively short that we see variation of the so-called "NASCAR" package of NY Giant fame a few years ago.

Can you imagine a defensive line that would look like this:

Dunlap- Geno- Hunt- MJ

or

Dunlap- Geno - Clarke - MJ

Aside from Adkins, the shortest guy is 6'6.  That would be like throwing through a windmill.  Maybe even give Adkins the occasional break and go:

Dunlap-  Hunt-  Clarke-  MJ

That would be 6'6"  6'8"  6'7" 6'7"

Hilarious.

(08-10-2015, 11:20 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: True, but you have to think that all the talk of Geno looking like the best player on the field will cure that.

Atkins tore it up with Peko not doing much more than holding his place (which is what a NT is supposed to do), so I'm hoping that Hardison can provide a nice spark and can cause disruption in the middle.

(08-10-2015, 03:20 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Agreed that Peko and Hall should remain on the team for at least this season, but both should see a reduced role.

Hunt just isn't a very good football player, hopefully he magically transforms into one before he hits 30. I won't hold my breath, he isn't even guaranteed a roster spot this year.

We haven't seen anything from Clarke to get excited about, so I don't know why people throw him into a lineup assuming we should be excited about that. I'll give him another year or so before writing him off as a bust, but I don't think he's going to be a great player overnight. Most people seem to be realistic about it but some are way overestimating what Clarke will likely be bringing to the table in 2015.

Geno's last name is Atkins.