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Price vs Daniels - Knightmare on Elm Street - 03-14-2018
With free agency under way there is a chance that Russell Bodine does not return to the Jungle. Next we turn to the draft, the top two Center prospects are James Daniels from Iowa and Billy Price from Ohio State:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/james-daniels?id=32462018-0002-5600-48e1-4044bbc76ad1
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/billy-price?id=32462018-0002-5599-11cc-88054ff74390
Both prospects would bring stability to the position and both have their strengths and weaknesses. So which would be the better pick?
***Disclaimer: If there is a thread that is similar please merge or disregard.
RE: Price vs Daniels - SunsetBengal - 03-14-2018
I think both are capable and able to do the job well, at the NFL level. As to which, that is a matter of personal preference, according to who fits better into your scheme.
Personally, I like Price. Price is powerful and naturally aggressive. In our system, where we want to run the ball a significant portion of the time, I think that he fits. Daniels is a great player. Master technician and excellent body control and Pass Pro skills. For a team intending to be more pass heavy, Daniels is your man.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Bilbo Saggins - 03-14-2018
Daniels has great movement, technique, and a great handle on the mental aspect of playing center. His knock is that he may lack raw power and strength. He may have a similar rookie experience to what Clint Boling had.
Price seems to be pretty balanced in his game. Not an A+ athlete, but very hard working. Isn't blown off the ball by big nose tackles. Has a mountain dew habit.
I think that I'd take a healthy Ragnow over either. Raw power and strength at the center position has been lacking, and it'd be awfully nice to watch a center blow people off the LOS.
RE: Price vs Daniels - CJD - 03-14-2018
From what I've read, Price is exactly the kind of Center we need.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/billy-price?id=2559911
STRENGTHS Freaky strength and explosiveness. Expected to crush the bench press at the Combine. Plays with excellent snap to punch quickness. Lands hands under shoulders and snatches pads gaining control of the man across from him. Core strength and contact balance is a plus. Has redirect power to wipe out gap shooter and recover from early losses. Terrific bend and flexibility in hips unleash his drive blocking power. Works from consistently leveraged position. Generates push against bigger players. Considered highly intelligent by scouting community. Operational in space or in a phone booth. Keeps hands inside the frame in pass pro. Pass sets with wide base and strong anchor. Starting experience as both center and guard. Mean streak will not be an issue.
WEAKNESSES Has had consistent tape where impatience gets him in trouble. Lunges out to find shade defenders causing him to over-set and lose balance. Early lunging may be a muscle memory concern. Lack of length makes it tough for him to sustain. Could be more static on second level climb so backs can set up his blocks. Can improve re-setting hands against longer defensive tackles. Feet need to follow hands more consistently on redirects rather than leaning. Feet begin to deaden in his mirror allowing athletic rushers to challenge him with counters. Needs to improve footwork to go with his brute force. Can be a challenging personality to deal with according to scouts.
So...Big, strong, aggressive, agile, takes on big NTs, intelligent, anchor that gets impatient and lunges that could improve footwork.
...I mean is that not describing the perfect Center for us?
Daniels has a lot more concerns, especially in regards to his core strength.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/james-daniels?id=2560048
STRENGTHS Elite movement talent for the position. Smooth, fluid and flexible. Good snap to step quickness. Initial contact is balanced and well-timed. Outpaces defenders laterally and reaches three-techniques all day long. Slides feet into position and swivels hips to secure the block. Easy second-level climber with agility for high connection rate. Takes smart angles. Can beat inside linebackers to the spot and get them sealed. Has reactive athleticism to open hips and redirect against slants on his backside. Snatches and mirrors for block centering and sustaining on work-up blocks. Finishes. Technically sound and works well with his guards. Pass sets with wide base and plus balance. Rarely caught lunging or over-extending against athletic rushers. Has foot quickness to stay mirrored and handle counters. Rolls hips under him for quality anchor.
WEAKNESSES Played lighter than he needs to be as a pro. Has to continue to add functional mass to his frame. Power at the point of attack is average. Bull-rushers make him work overtime to maintain his anchor. Will struggle to recover if nose guards get hands on him first. Target points can be too high in pass sets causing hands to slide up and off opponent. Gets in a hurry to climb on top of second level linebacker and will leave initial block unsecured for guard next to him. Scheme didn't allow for much drive blocking.
Give me Price all day.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Steve - 03-14-2018
(03-14-2018, 08:26 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Daniels has great movement, technique, and a great handle on the mental aspect of playing center. His knock is that he may lack raw power and strength. He may have a similar rookie experience to what Clint Boling had.
Price seems to be pretty balanced in his game. Not an A+ athlete, but very hard working. Isn't blown off the ball by big nose tackles. Has a mountain dew habit.
I think that I'd take a healthy Ragnow over either. Raw power and strength at the center position has been lacking, and it'd be awfully nice to watch a center blow people off the LOS.
might have to pick Ragnow in the 2nd rd ....?
doubt he'd make it to our rd #3 slot
not sure if the Bengals would do that....
but I too want "ground & pound".....
RE: Price vs Daniels - SunsetBengal - 03-14-2018
(03-14-2018, 08:26 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Daniels has great movement, technique, and a great handle on the mental aspect of playing center. His knock is that he may lack raw power and strength. He may have a similar rookie experience to what Clint Boling had.
Price seems to be pretty balanced in his game. Not an A+ athlete, but very hard working. Isn't blown off the ball by big nose tackles. Has a mountain dew habit.
I think that I'd take a healthy Ragnow over either. Raw power and strength at the center position has been lacking, and it'd be awfully nice to watch a center blow people off the LOS.
Ragnow is good. However, he is also a prospect with his share of warts.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/frank-ragnow?id=2559824
Quote:Analysis
Strengths
Has good size and overall power for the position. Solid snap to step quickness and doesn't waste time getting to his spot. Quick to get into defenders as a down blocker. Has adequate bend into contact at point of attack. Will drive block from insteps and can generate some movement through force. Does a really nice job of locating his second block target early in the rep. Transitions from first to second block with good timing and pop. Has plus feel for angles up to linebackers and does a good job of sifting and finding targets on short pulls. Block finisher with a desired level of toughness. Has strong hands to cinch defender's frame and ride blocks out. Able to drop tail and anchor against bull rushers and will find work when uncovered. Has starting experience at guard as well as center.
Weaknesses
Is an average athlete and can be a little heavy footed in space when tasked with sudden redirection against moving targets. Needs to drop pad level as move blocker. Post-contact base can be a little inconsistent causing occasional balance issues. On the ground a little more than he needs to be. Has tendency to maul with wider hands when trying to get his man turned and sealed at the point of attack. Can improve his feel for twists coming. May struggle against quick-twitch opposition. Will be coming off of season-ending high ankle injury that will need to be vetted by combine doctors.
Draft Projection
Rounds 2-3
Sources Tell Us
"He's a tough guy and a leader in that locker room. He's got the personality that you want your center to have and he's got good strength. I see him as an early starter in the league." - NFC area scout
NFL Comparison
Nick Martin
Bottom Line
Three-year starter and team captain who brings a desired level of physical demeanor to the field each game. Ragnow won't wow you with foot quickness or athleticism, but he takes smart angles to his blocks and shouldn't be limited by scheme. His size, power, and anchor is a big plus as is his ability to swing over to guard if needed. Ragnow could struggle to stay connected to blocks against athletic interior linemen with quick hands, but his baseline play is equal to a solid NFL starter.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Synric - 03-14-2018
Fact is James Daniels can do things no other Center in the draft can...A Center that can consistently get to a 3-tech is insane.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Yojimbo - 03-14-2018
Yes, please?
RE: Price vs Daniels - bfine32 - 03-14-2018
Gimme the one that didn't hurt himself lifting weights.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Thundercloud - 03-15-2018
Price all day. Minor thing on the injury. Good record on availability at Ohio State. Zimmer wants him to play beside Elflein. I know we need linebackers, but our line is not fixed yet.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Big Boss - 03-15-2018
I'll defer to Pollack's judgment on this (should they draft a Center), but I like Price quite a bit.
RE: Price vs Daniels - phil413 - 03-15-2018
Synric Wrote:Fact is James Daniels can do things no other Center in the draft can...A Center that can consistently get to a 3-tech is insane.
I'm split, but due to Pollack's scheme being a mesh I like the versatility that Daniels brings as well. He may be the safer pick, and if he adds a bit of strength you're going to get a really really good center.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Bengalpool - 03-15-2018
I voted Price but honestly, either of them would be an upgrade...
RE: Price vs Daniels - Go Cards - 03-15-2018
Either would be an upgrade imo.
Going to draw the ire of many but went with Daniels.
Would have much rather had Richburg, but that ship sailed with 49ers giving him 9+ million a year on a 5 year contract.
We were never going to match that let alone beat it.
My dream FA signing is gone but happy with the Glenn signing so not going to complain.
RE: Price vs Daniels - BFritz21 - 03-15-2018
Jensen all day over both of them!
I'd go with Price, though, just because (1) I'm an OSU Homer and (2) the Big Ten is the NCAA's AFC North.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Au165 - 03-15-2018
21 is still relatively high for a center, I think fans overvalue them more than GM's as far as when you take them in the draft. Since 2015 there have been two Centers taken in the 1st Ryan Kelly at 18 and Travis Frederick at 31. I think realistically you could slide back one more time from 21 and still get one of these guys in the late 20's.
RE: Price vs Daniels - 3wt - 03-15-2018
I'd be happy with either. They both have different strengths. I think down the road Daniels will be the better guy, but if we're trying to put together a big boy line now I'd go with Price.
I'd also be very satisfied with Ragnow in the 2nd. The tape I've watched is a mediocre guard but a very good center.
We take the chance he won't be there in the 2nd though. I do think this is the route the Bengals will take - if they take any center in the days one or two. They appear to be happy enough with Bodine's performance in the last couple of games that they will not draft a center till day three.
That is what I think will happen. I do not expect any of those three to be a Bengal
RE: Price vs Daniels - Bengalstripes9 - 03-15-2018
I went with Daniels in the first round. But hey, I'm no talent evaluator. I'd rather defer to our line coach. If he screws it up, we can blame him like we did with Paul Alexander. If he thinks Price is the better center, why not wait until the second--he'll probably be there after the combine thing. That'd open us up to take a guard like Hernandez or a linebacker like Rashaan Evans in the first round, or maybe an offensive tackle falls to us.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Hammerstripes - 03-15-2018
(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Fact is James Daniels can do things no other Center in the draft can...A Center that can consistently get to a 3-tech is insane.
True, but having issues being pushed back on bull rushes is not ideal.
I think Daniels is the better athlete, but I think Price is a better fit here.
RE: Price vs Daniels - Go Cards - 03-15-2018
(03-15-2018, 11:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: 21 is still relatively high for a center, I think fans overvalue them more than GM's as far as when you take them in the draft. Since 2015 there have been two Centers taken in the 1st Ryan Kelly at 18 and Travis Frederick at 31. I think realistically you could slide back one more time from 21 and still get one of these guys in the late 20's.
Agree and really do not want a Center in first round unless they draft Wynn to play Center.
Want whoever is there in second round out of the top Centers ideally.