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+--- Thread: Does Zac deserve a second season? (/thread-22005.html)
Does Zac deserve a second season? - samhain - 11-10-2019
I was always in the "give him another chance" camp.
I'm starting to change my mind. I don't see anything from him that indicated that he's any kind of offensive mind. Anyone with that kind of skill would have found a way to piece some kind of gimmick together and squeak out one win before the league figured things out and adjusted. Think Mason Rudolph and Gardner Minshew. Taylor never strays from his plan or scheme. He's not adapting. I don't think he has it in him to fix this team and it's talent deficit. His drafting thus far has been unimpressive, if he indeed had a major say in the selections.
I think they're headed for a number 1 overall quarterback with this pick. Every loss makes this more likely unless Finley turns into Tom Brady, which is about as likely as Tate turning into Green.
Is an out-of-his-depth Taylor the guy you want guiding your brand new first overall pick quarterback? Is he even the guy you want evaluations/picking him? I think the questions are fair ones.
I'm not sure being young or new should automatically buy him another year. It's time to entertain the idea that he might just be bad at this job.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Sled21 - 11-10-2019
I'll just quote what they say on NFL radio, if an owner fires a first time head coach in the first three years, he's an idiot. Taylor has had half a season. Fire him? No. Get a different OC and let them call the plays, yes.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
I've seen NOTHING to indicate that he could be a quality NFL HC or even offensive coordinator. His staff is terrible also and he picked them.
My case for firing him is that basically the entire roster has regressed. You keep him here, and he could ruin our #1 pick. You get a good coach and staff in and they could salvage guys.
The ONLY appealing thing about a HC job here too is the 1st pick in the draft (if we get it).
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Fan_in_Kettering - 11-10-2019
Another year? I wouldn’t give him another game!
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Sled21 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I've seen NOTHING to indicate that he could be a quality NFL HC or even offensive coordinator. His staff is terrible also and he picked them.
My case for firing him is that basically the entire roster has regressed. You keep him here, and he could ruin our #1 pick. You get a good coach and staff in and they could salvage guys.
The ONLY appealing thing about a HC job here too is the 1st pick in the draft (if we get it).
I think the roster regressing is reason to fire the position coaches and coordinators. Taylor still has the locker room pretty much believing in him and what he's trying to do, and not turning on each other. And it's not like we were blown out of every game either....
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:41 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'll just quote what they say on NFL radio, if an owner fires a first time head coach in the first three years, he's an idiot. Taylor has had half a season. Fire him? No. Get a different OC and let them call the plays, yes.
Yeah...I agree FIRE THE PLAYCALLER!
(Nobody tell him that Taylor is the playcaller.)
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think the roster regressing is reason to fire the position coaches and coordinators. Taylor still has the locker room pretty much believing in him and what he's trying to do, and not turning on each other. And it's not like we were blown out of every game either....
So not getting blown out EVERY GAME is your reason to keep him? We're 0-9.
I highly doubt the locker room believes in what he's selling. They know he's a bad coach. They just haven't said it publicly.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Sled21 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...I agree FIRE THE PLAYCALLER!
(Nobody tell him that Taylor is the playcaller.)
I realize Taylor is calling the plays, I said hire a different coordinator and give the playcalling to him. Not the same as firing the HC.... just taking that duty away from him.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - uticabengalfan - 11-10-2019
Ive seen nothing to warrant him having a second season. Hell maybe give Jay Gruden a call
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Nately120 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I've seen NOTHING to indicate that he could be a quality NFL HC or even offensive coordinator. His staff is terrible also and he picked them.
My case for firing him is that basically the entire roster has regressed. You keep him here, and he could ruin our #1 pick. You get a good coach and staff in and they could salvage guys.
The ONLY appealing thing about a HC job here too is the 1st pick in the draft (if we get it).
Yeah, if we actually get the 1st overall pick and that's looking more and more plausible, it might be a sign that we should use that to hopefully lure a better HC here by suggesting that he can take "his guy." Unfortunately, I assume we are either going to just keep ZT or even if we had the 1st overall pick any new HC would have to roll with the guy Mike Brown wants.
I assume we do as we did in 2003 and just take the consensus #1 pick QB and hope for the best. Maybe the guy thinks he can be the one to drag this franchise kicking and screaming to a SB or maybe he looks at how Palmer and Dalton both met their end here and he just pulls an Elway/Eli and wins somewhere else. When we drafted Palmer we a perfect 12 for 12 of losing seasons in the Mike Brown era, and we're bad now but not quite that bad. Still, in this day and age of social media and overall world contentedness, I can see our bid to grab the top QB and saddle him with the worst owner and what looks like the worst HC/defense/o-line in football to be met with resistance.
Things are so bad in so many ways here that it makes you feel stupid to even hope. That's really quite impressive.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Kingslayer - 11-10-2019
hell no, but it wont matter who they hire
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - CKwi88 - 11-10-2019
As a rule, I do think that Taylor deserves the chance to build his team.
However, if the Bengals were to go 0-16, I'd almost think that a comprehensive overhaul is obligatory. But we're talking about Cincy here.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Synric - 11-10-2019
Of course he does...rebuilds dont happen in a season and they are always ugly.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:51 PM)uticabengalfan Wrote: Ive seen nothing to warrant him having a second season. Hell maybe give Jay Gruden a call
So we brought Taylor in because of his brilliant/modern offensive mind and he's a TERRIBLE playcaller…
So WHAT SKILLS does he bring to the table then to make him worth keeping? What is he good at? Is it organizing practice? Motivating players?
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Nately120 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think the roster regressing is reason to fire the position coaches and coordinators. Taylor still has the locker room pretty much believing in him and what he's trying to do, and not turning on each other. And it's not like we were blown out of every game either....
I'm sure ZT is a nice guy and all, but if the locker room is still behind him I have to wonder how competitive the players really are. We are 0-9 and a lot of the games have been over during the first half. ZT and his being in way over his head are a symptom of the MB way of doing/not doing things, but the guy isn't good at his job and we aren't even looking like we belong in the same league as other teams.
I'm not just saying that to rip on them, we legitimately look like a franchise that isn't up to many of the industry standards. So yes, players can believe in ZT but I'd imagine they would have to admit they are all playing in football hell thanks to MB in order to give ZT any sort of credit.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Shake n Blake - 11-10-2019
It's so tough to talk about the Bengals like they are a "normal" team. If I owned the Bengals, Zac would be one-n-done for sure. 4-12 you can excuse for 1 year, but this looks like an 0-16 disaster that will go down as one of the most complete failures of all-time. We are so bad in every aspect. Run game, passing, blocking, defense, etc.
The only way I could excuse it, is if this was an intentional tank job. Barring that, Zac needs to go. That said, who steps in and wins with Mike Brown hovering over his shoulder?
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Nately120 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:54 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: As a rule, I do think that Taylor deserves the chance to build his team.
However, if the Bengals were to go 0-16, I'd almost think that a comprehensive overhaul is obligatory. But we're talking about Cincy here.
This makes sense, but it's hard to see MB allowing him to build his team or giving him the resources to build his own team AND ZT actually knowing what the hell he is doing. The odds of both of those things happening just seems beyond slim.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, if we actually get the 1st overall pick and that's looking more and more plausible, it might be a sign that we should use that to hopefully lure a better HC here by suggesting that he can take "his guy." Unfortunately, I assume we are either going to just keep ZT or even if we had the 1st overall pick any new HC would have to roll with the guy Mike Brown wants.
I assume we do as we did in 2003 and just take the consensus #1 pick QB and hope for the best. Maybe the guy thinks he can be the one to drag this franchise kicking and screaming to a SB or maybe he looks at how Palmer and Dalton both met their end here and he just pulls an Elway/Eli and wins somewhere else. When we drafted Palmer we a perfect 12 for 12 of losing seasons in the Mike Brown era, and we're bad now but not quite that bad. Still, in this day and age of social media and overall world contentedness, I can see our bid to grab the top QB and saddle him with the worst owner and what looks like the worst HC/defense/o-line in football to be met with resistance.
Things are so bad in so many ways here that it makes you feel stupid to even hope. That's really quite impressive.
Honestly, things are so bad that it makes me feel that the last 28 years of following the Bengals were wasted.
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - THE PISTONS - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:54 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: As a rule, I do think that Taylor deserves the chance to build his team.
However, if the Bengals were to go 0-16, I'd almost think that a comprehensive overhaul is obligatory. But we're talking about Cincy here.
What evidence has Taylor showed you that makes you think he's the guy to rebuild this team?
RE: Does Zac deserve a second season? - Nately120 - 11-10-2019
(11-10-2019, 08:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's so tough to talk about the Bengals like they are a "normal" team. If I owned the Bengals, Zac would be one-n-done for sure. 4-12 you can excuse for 1 year, but this looks like an 0-16 disaster that will go down as one of the most complete failures of all-time. We are so bad in every aspect. Run game, passing, blocking, defense, etc.
The only way I could excuse it, is if this was an intentional tank job. Barring that, Zac needs to go. That said, who steps in and wins with Mike Brown hovering over his shoulder?
Is there even anything this season that isn't awful? Joe Mixon has had maybe a single good game that was pretty much 95% garbage time and Auden Tate, a guy who never should have seen the field if AJ Green and John Ross actually did their jobs, is playing as hard as he can and doing stuff.
I just feel like there should be something to be somewhat hopeful about, but I'm not seeing it right now.