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+--- Thread: Is Ben Done? (/thread-26468.html)
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Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-11-2021
I know this has been brought up in other threads, but I still feel like it's the elephant in the room, especially to Steelers fans.
Sitting and crying on the bench.
My initial thoughts were "he's done. He knows he's not playing next year," because why else would a grown man be crying? He's lost big games before.
Maybe he's also tired of JuJu's antics and just feels like they're not the same Steelers anymore.
Michael Robinson said that the Steelers haven't done anything since the last Super Bowl and that Bryant and Bell left because of Ben, which I hadn't heard any expert make that claim before.
He also mentioned how they're both still in the playoffs while Ben's in a bar somewhere having his bodyguards bring him college babes to rape!
His cap hit is something like 41 million next year, so will the Steelers just take that or cut him and still a 21(?) mil dead cap?
Is Ben done? Are the Steelers in trouble if he does retire?
RE: Is Ben Done? - Bmore Birds - 01-11-2021
Their cap situation is horrible. Sure you can manipulate it a good bit but Pitt's is at the point where they have to save money somewhere. Cutting Ben leaves roughly 20 million dead cap & the other 20 saved.
If I were them I'd punt on next year, get the cap straight and draft a QB in 2022. Maybe use a mid rounder this year on a QB who could surprise.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-11-2021
(01-11-2021, 07:48 PM)Bmore Birds Wrote: Their cap situation is horrible. Sure you can manipulate it a good bit but Pitt's is at the point where they have to save money somewhere. Cutting Ben leaves roughly 20 million dead cap & the other 20 saved.
If I were them I'd punt on next year, get the cap straight and draft a QB in 2022. Maybe use a mid rounder this year on a QB who could surprise.
That would be the smart thing to do but it would piss off their fanbase.
Then again, they could go 0-16 and their fans would still argue that they're one of the best teams in the league.
There are a few FA quarterbacks that they could sign for a year to at least make their fans believe that they're trying to win.
RE: Is Ben Done? - Bmore Birds - 01-11-2021
Totally agree. It would be very unlike them to do that and for that reason I ultimately don't think they will. But they should probably roll with Rudolph or like I mentioned a mid round rookie. Cut some vets, resign Watt to toy with the cap, get 4-6 wins and move on.
Maybe they sign a bridge QB? Ben makes it tough.
RE: Is Ben Done? - StrictlyBiz - 01-12-2021
(01-11-2021, 07:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know this has been brought up in other threads, but I still feel like it's the elephant in the room, especially to Steelers fans.
Sitting and crying on the bench.
My initial thoughts were "he's done. He knows he's not playing next year," because why else would a grown man be crying? He's lost big games before."
Maybe he's also tired of JuJu's antics and just feels like they're not the same Steelers anymore.
Michael Robinson said that the Steelers haven't done anything since the last Super Bowl and that Bryant and Bell left because of Ben, which I hadn't heard any expert make that claim before.
He also mentioned how they're both still in the playoffs while Ben's in a bar somewhere having his bodyguards bring him college babes to rape!
His cap hit is something like 41 million next year, so will the Steelers just take that or cut him and still a 21(?) mil dead cap?
Is Ben done? Are the Steelers in trouble if he does retire?
It is tough to say but he's done. I think it's time to move on. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, it's just that his production isn't worth the cap hit. Honestly aside from Patrick Mahomes, there probably isn't ANY other player in the league worth a $41M cap hit.
The only option would be to extend him a year and spread out that hit over 2021 and 2022. Even a two year extension would help more. But that route means that he'd be the QB for the next two to three years and those are valuable years that they could be rebuilding. In all seriousness, there still is a place for him in this league. He's better than A LOT of starting QBs out there. But it's that damn cap hit combined with where the team is now. I think this is a good jumping off point. It's better to get rid of a player a year early than keep them a year or two too late. Look at the Pats. They should've traded Brady and kept Garafalo like BB wanted. Yeah they won another SB, but they're suffering now and probably will for a few more seasons. And who's to say they wouldn't have won that SB with Jimmy G?
IMO if they can bring in Darnold for a decent (trade) price and let him compete with Rudolph. Im not like a lot of Steeler fans regarding Mason. He really was playing pretty good last year until (whats his name?) from Baltimore decapitated him then he wasn't the same and got hurt again. He actually looked pretty good against Cleveland last week. I'd give him a season or two with Darnold around as a just in case.
As a team, Im not so panicked. They're definitely in for a few lean years, but I don't think they're going to be real bad. They've got a really good D and need to lean to them while they rebuild the O. They need to sign their key guys like Alualu, Watt, and Minka. Dupree is gone, but Alex Highsmith has performed well and there's a lot of high hope for him going forward. They need to think about replacing Haden and Heyward.
Offensively they really need to rebuild the O line. AV has struggled and Pouncey is probably going to retire, but the Dotson kid has looked really good. I wouldn't mind Conner staying at the right price. Good story but can't stay healthy. If he's not looking to break the bank, Im fine with who they have at RB. WR.....Juju is gone and that's fine. He's become AB Lite with his social media obsession and distractions. He's not the cancer that AB was though but with Claypool, Johnson, and Washington (why he didn't get more PT IDK), and Ebron and Vance, I think they're more than fine at the receiver position.
Not much is being said about it yet, but their 2020 draft looks to be outstanding (Claypool, Dotson, and Highsmith) and should really help them transition.
RE: Is Ben Done? - StrictlyBiz - 01-12-2021
(Am I having a legitimate convo with BRAD?)
RE: Is Ben Done? - StrictlyBiz - 01-12-2021
(01-11-2021, 10:40 PM)Bmore Birds Wrote: Maybe they sign a bridge QB? Ben makes it tough.
I think it's the year to just close your eyes, grit your teeth, and rip the band-aid off.
Again, letting someone go a year early is way better than a year late. Look back at Bradshaw. Rumor is that they didn't draft Marino in 1983 because he had a Coke problem. But they also kept Bradshaw around an extra year. Had they moved on from him after the 82 season, they possibly would've been more likely to grab Marino in 83.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 01:16 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: (Am I having a legitimate convo with BRAD?)
Same thing I was thinking.............
I've had a few legitimate convos with Pat too........ I think I'm dying..............
As far as your post goes, he's definitely not worth that much and I definitely think that, with how bad he looked this season and another year of aging this offseason, he definitely could be a bad QB by next season, if he's not there already.
Ben's entire game was extending plays because he was too big to bring down and then making big throws, which his arm doesn't look like he can possibly make tough throws anymore and he looks too old and battered to extend plays.
At this point, he's just eating a lot of money and cap space and just preventing receivers and players around him from developing to their full potential.
They're still the Steelers so they could attract free agents, but will free agents be drawn to them without a big name QB to lead them? Sure. they can sign a vet to lead for a year and hope to draft someone to lead the team, but, without guys like Ben, Bell, and Brown, do they have anybody that players will make free agents want to come play there? Sure, they might have a good defense, but defense isn't as big of a draw with the new rules limiting what defenses can do and offenses becoming so good that the game NFL has become more of an "outscore the other team," as opposed to "stop the other team."
I just think players will look on offense and would rather go somewhere that looks to have more pieces in place and is in a "win now" mode, as opposed to rebuild and waste at least a year or two of their short careers.
RE: Is Ben Done? - Interceptor - 01-12-2021
Deshaun Watson?
RE: Is Ben Done? - StrictlyBiz - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 01:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: They're still the Steelers so they could attract free agents, but will free agents be drawn to them without a big name QB to lead them? Sure. they can sign a vet to lead for a year and hope to draft someone to lead the team, but, without guys like Ben, Bell, and Brown, do they have anybody that players will make free agents want to come play there? Sure, they might have a good defense, but defense isn't as big of a draw with the new rules limiting what defenses can do and offenses becoming so good that the game NFL has become more of an "outscore the other team," as opposed to "stop the other team."Tomlin.
Why, IDK. But players love to play for Tomlin
![[Image: IFhTnDI.jpeg]](https://i.imgur.com/IFhTnDI.jpeg)
(01-12-2021, 02:06 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Deshaun Watson?
He's good but I think too expense via trade and too big of a contract. Plus he'll be due his 3rd contract soon, which won't be cheap.
IMO I'd rather roll with Rudolph/Darnold on the cheap for a few years and see how they develop while they secure Watt, Minka, and Bush long term.
RE: Is Ben Done? - GMDino - 01-12-2021
Ben is 38. He won't get younger.
He has shown he can still "makes the passes" this season but it's my personal opinion that he should be done. I think his body is just not holding up, or he's afraid it won't and that affecting how he plays the game.
He was always more of a Favre than a Brady and that's harder as you get older.
With his cap hit from the deferred bonuses a lot will depend on the cap next year.
I'm old enough to have seen all those HOFers from the 70's play and move on/retire so I know what it's like to lose the franchise QB and think you may never see another one. But I'm also old enough that I no longer time my mood and life to a sports team so I'll keep cheering and hope for the best.
RE: Is Ben Done? - bfine32 - 01-12-2021
As a Bengal fan: I hope he hangs on another 5 years.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As a Bengal fan: I hope he hangs on another 5 years.
No way in hell we're that lucky!
We just have to hope that they bring in a stop-gap vet that ends up sucking and then they draft a guy and he ends up being a bust or they don't improve their offensive line and they ruin him!
I wonder if they'll have to change their entire offensive playbook and offensive philosophy if their new QB can't extend plays like Ben used to or make the throws that Ben used to be able to make?
RE: Is Ben Done? - StrictlyBiz - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As a Bengal fan: I hope he hangs on another 5 years.
Funny, just a couple of years ago as a Bengal fan you were hoping that he'd hang it up.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 04:28 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Tomlin.
Why, IDK. But players love to play for Tomlin
They might love playing for him, but will that trump their desire to win or make more money? They might have money to compete now with Ben being off the books, but they still have some signings of their own to make and I doubt any free agents will give them a discount now.
RE: Is Ben Done? - Bmore Birds - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 07:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: No way in hell we're that lucky!
We just have to hope that they bring in a stop-gap vet that ends up sucking and then they draft a guy and he ends up being a bust or they don't improve their offensive line and they ruin him!
I wonder if they'll have to change their entire offensive playbook and offensive philosophy if their new QB can't extend plays like Ben used to or make the throws that Ben used to be able to make?
They've already changed their entire offensive philosophy. Dude's getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds. I agree with Dino that he just can't take much more punishment. If he doesn't retire, he'll just be a game manager.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BmorePat87 - 01-16-2021
They screwed themselves with the restructure to open cap for this year. Best they can hope for, outside of cutting him and only eating $20m of the $40 he’ll cost next season, is to extend him with void years. If no one else is willing to take him, he may be willing to do that.
RE: Is Ben Done? - Stewy - 01-16-2021
(01-12-2021, 06:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ben is 38. He won't get younger.
He has shown he can still "makes the passes" this season but it's my personal opinion that he should be done. I think his body is just not holding up, or he's afraid it won't and that affecting how he plays the game.
He was always more of a Favre than a Brady and that's harder as you get older.
With his cap hit from the deferred bonuses a lot will depend on the cap next year.
I'm old enough to have seen all those HOFers from the 70's play and move on/retire so I know what it's like to lose the franchise QB and think you may never see another one. But I'm also old enough that I no longer time my mood and life to a sports team so I'll keep cheering and hope for the best.
Could they restructure his deal to two-three years to reduce the dead money cap hit with the thought of bridging for the future or is his contract just too onerous? 20 mil dead money hit (as mentioned above) is exceedingly stiff.
RE: Is Ben Done? - BFritz21 - 01-16-2021
(01-12-2021, 11:31 PM)Bmore Birds Wrote: They've already changed their entire offensive philosophy. Dude's getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds. I agree with Dino that he just can't take much more punishment. If he doesn't retire, he'll just be a game manager.I don't even think he can be much of a game manager anymore. You still need to be able to make decent throws and get the ball to playmakers and, thanks to Ben, they don't really have too many of those left. Changing their entire offensive philosophy would also be tough because Ben'a abilities were also why the rest of the players on offense were successful.
Also, how many players raised their levels of play because they were inspired/motivated/energized by Ben's play? Even if they didn't like him, even I have to admit watching him go under center and just knowing he could make a big play at any minute worried me.
Would Ben taking a pay cut and changing the way, if it were even possible for him to do so, lower team morale and the team's abilities? You raise your level of play with the confidence that you're playing with a quarterback that can make the plays.
(01-16-2021, 11:47 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They screwed themselves with the restructure to open cap for this year. Best they can hope for, outside of cutting him and only eating $20m of the $40 he’ll cost next season, is to extend him with void years. If no one else is willing to take him, he may be willing to do that.I think that he'd just retire before taking a pay cut because he already has Super Bowls, he's beat up, and doesn't need the money. I think his ego is way too big for that, but then he could also do it to try to improve his image with the fanbase, which I hope he does that and comes back for at least one more year because he's hurting the team more than helping.
I know the Rooneys normally don't bow to players, but would they ask Ben to take a pay cut after two Super Bowls?
(01-16-2021, 03:03 PM)Stewy Wrote: Could they restructure his deal to two-three years to reduce the dead money cap hit with the thought of bridging for the future or is his contract just too onerous? 20 mil dead money hit (as mentioned above) is exceedingly stiff.
I think they're screwed no matter what but it's just a matter of how screwed they are.
The Steelers always seem to have things work out in their favor, though, so who knows.
RE: Is Ben Done? - GMDino - 01-17-2021
(01-16-2021, 03:03 PM)Stewy Wrote: Could they restructure his deal to two-three years to reduce the dead money cap hit with the thought of bridging for the future or is his contract just too onerous? 20 mil dead money hit (as mentioned above) is exceedingly stiff.
AS much as I "know" about football from watching and reading about it I don't know squat about the cap or how it works. That's why guys like the Steelers GM are so valuable...they DO know how it works and find ways to make it work.
Overall I'm of the opinion they went all in hoping Ben could produce for these last couple years but the injury took one of those away and now they are up against it.
I don't think they can Bobby Bonilla it though!
