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+--- Thread: Bates Overrated? (/thread-35011.html)
Bates Overrated? - Marlon23 - 02-27-2023
Is Bates Overrated?
RE: Bates Overrated? - jj22 - 02-27-2023
Something tells me you know the answer.....
RE: Bates Overrated? - bfine32 - 02-27-2023
What is his rating?
Who is rating him?
RE: Bates Overrated? - leonardfan40 - 02-27-2023
Yes I think so. Not because his ceiling isn’t as high as people say, but because he has never been consistent enough to be considered a truly elite S.
We will miss him, but not at the price he is likely to command.
RE: Bates Overrated? - Au165 - 02-27-2023
His intelligence is under rated, his individual contributions are potentially overrated. I think what people don't always give him credit for is a lot of conducting the back end and getting the coverage aligned correctly. Look at how often he is talking to guys after a play (good or bad) and explaining what the check may have been or what should have happened. He has a mastery of the defense and I think one thing we have to recognize is him being gone could result in more busted coverages even if they aren't at that specific spot.
RE: Bates Overrated? - CJD - 02-27-2023
Honestly, it's impossible to underrate or overrate a safety just by watching the games. You need to go into the All 22 and watch the player and see what he does that affects the play.
For example, there was a play against the Deshaun Watson led Browns where there was a guy coming wide open over the middle on a crosser. It may have been a busted coverage. We can't really say without knowing the play call (which we don't know). Jessie Bates saw him coming open and tracked the player from the outer hash mark all the way to the sideline to pick off the ball.
https://www.bengals.com/video/jessie-bates-iii-highlights-int-bengals-browns-week-14-2022-season
Was that his responsibility? We don't know for sure, but it may not have been considering he was resting on the far hash mark. It looks like it may have been cover 3, and the corner on that side of the field was pulled away by a post route.
Now, most QBs see Bates moving over and probably choose not to throw that ball. We only saw that play because Watson is bad and/or rusty and threw it even when it was clear Bates had closed that window.
The question is, how many of those windows did Bates cross the entire field to close? If Bates weren't the safety on those plays, would we have given up a bunch more 30+ yard passes?
It's hard to quantify just by watching the games on TV.
I haven't watched a lot of All 22 film because that just takes way too much time, but from the little I've seen, Bates does seem like he's generally extremely alert in the field and is regularly covering up potential holes that would develop if a less aware player was at safety.
I'm worried about whether Dax will have that awareness right out of the gate. We may be looking at a lot more deep balls given up in 2023.
But we'll just have to see.
RE: Bates Overrated? - Hammerstripes - 02-27-2023
Thats such a tough question.
Is he overrated as a safety? I'm not sure. For me, he doesn't seem to make as many big time plays as the other elite guys.
Is he worth $17-20 million? I don't think he is FOR US. Maybe another team that needs a safety and has a ton of cap space, but for us, he doesn't fall in the "we absolutely cannot lose this guy" category.
RE: Bates Overrated? - michaelsean - 02-27-2023
Yes there is no telling what he does that gives the defense a win and you don’t even know about it. But, the Bengals are going to lose people, and Dax needs to figure it out.
RE: Bates Overrated? - QueenCity - 02-27-2023
Bengals Defense hasn't really given up the huge splash plays now that may be a credit to Bates. Think he's just an overall smart player that is on the fringe of being above average.
As noted many times he doesn't make the splash plays you see typically out of a top 3 safety and nor do we use him in a blitz package either.
If you can find similar production elsewhere for 1/3rd of the price I think you do it. Obviously the $$$ needing to be allocated elsewhere is the primary reason this is a discussion.
RE: Bates Overrated? - bonesaw - 02-27-2023
Bates plays a big role in that defense and they ask a lot from him.
RE: Bates Overrated? - Bengalstripes9 - 02-27-2023
Is marlon23 overrated? Just kidding.
Bates is rated about right in my opinion. Not many are rating him tops in the league.
Not many are rating him as average.
Most people rate him pretty accurately.
He’s a good to great player. But not a 1st team all pro.
RE: Bates Overrated? - wanga - 02-27-2023
He’s about to be overpaid I suspect but good on him. Great player and I wish we could keep him.
RE: Bates Overrated? - bfine32 - 02-27-2023
Dude is so good I suggest we call him Master
RE: Bates Overrated? - Go Cards - 02-28-2023
Don't think he is overrated, dude can ball. Don't doubt he is a leader in the defensive backfield, have heard Lou say as much. Don't think he is consistent in his play at times either though.
Yet dude has a very high ceiling, would submit into evidence last years playoffs. Yet he falls closer towards the floor than the ceiling at times.
He would definitely be worth keeping if Bengals weren't about to enter cap space hell soon.
RE: Bates Overrated? - Sled21 - 02-28-2023
Bates is not overrated, but he has underperformed due to his contract situation. If he were "Playoff Jesse" all season long, he would have no problem getting the contract he wants. Problem is, for the last two years he seems to be playing not to get injured.
RE: Bates Overrated? - BigRed75 - 02-28-2023
Bates is a good safety who is about to get way overpaid and will eventually be a cap casualty. I always thought Bates was great against the run but inconsistent against the pass. I believe this team needs a safety that can protect against the pass better enter Dax Hill who has long arms and great speed. I’m rolling with Dax and saving money to sign the likes of Joe, Tee and Logan.
RE: Bates Overrated? - BengalBob - 02-28-2023
Yes.
Daxton Hill will make Bates an afterthought.
RE: Bates Overrated? - Go Cards - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 11:01 AM)BengalBob Wrote: Yes.
Daxton Hill will make Bates an afterthought.
Was very high on Dax and hope to see your prediction come to fruition.
Yet he seems to have mental lapses at times, yet will chalk that down to being his rookie year.
Has great speed to the ball and all the tools needed to succeed and it is now his time to shine for the Bengals
RE: Bates Overrated? - TecmoBengals - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 12:00 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Was very high on Dax and hope to see your prediction come to fruition.
Yet he seems to have mental lapses at times, yet will chalk that down to being his rookie year.
Has great speed to the ball and all the tools needed to succeed and it is now his time to shine for the Bengals
One of these days he won't run out of bounds to reenter and make a play on special teams resulting in a penalty.
I'm hoping he loses the mental lapse-jitters as he gets more playing time. I think it's easier to learn on the field than watching from the sidelines.
RE: Bates Overrated? - RunKijanaRun - 02-28-2023
(02-27-2023, 05:57 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Is Bates Overrated?
You are a taciturn fellow.