(09-24-2024, 10:07 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Blame the coaches, blame the defense, blame whoever.

The real issue? The talent on the roster. It's not good enough, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

The 2021 Super Bowl team was built on free agency - Reader, Chido, Hendrickson, Hilton, Reiff, Vonn Bell. The Bengals have added or replaced some of that talent bringing in Cappa, Karras, Orlando Brown Jr, Geno Stone, Rankins who are on their current roster.

My question is this - where are the draft picks? Other than the Burrow and Chase LAY UPS, who have we drafted since 2019 that you'd consider a good NFL player? Higgins, CTB, Logan Wilson. That's it.

The Bengals have WHIFFED in the draft over the past 5 years.

When is Duke Tobin going to be held accountable? Who's responsible for the drafting of guys, especially on the defensive side of the ball? Does Lou have a say? Because he sure seemed giddy every time he was at the podium after we drafted 3 straight defensive players in the first 3 rounds last year.

They need more out of the draft. We can't continue whiffing on first round picks like Dax Hill and second round picks like Jackson Carman. We can't have drafts like 2021 where literally no one is contributing other than Chase. Everyone LOVED this years class, but who is contributing on the defensive side of the ball? It's been pathetic.

(09-24-2024, 10:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah. Bingo.

There isn't much talent on defense.

And to add to it, many of the free agents brought in either don't fit needs, or aren't talented.

Stone looks like Nick Scott part 2. Rankins can rush the passer, but not really a run stuffer and is hurt. BJ Hill is a good 3rd tackle. Maybe 2nd next to a great one.

Chide is missed in the secondary. So is Bates.

But, you lose Reader and then all the sudden your LB's look weak because blockers are on them.

(09-24-2024, 10:20 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Or are cheaper, significant downgrades than what we had. That's the key. 

(09-24-2024, 10:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bingo again. Some teams target guys that fit their scheme. We wait until the price tags go down, then add a guy like Rankins that is a decent to above average guy. But, he's a pass rusher at DT. Not a run stuffer. And he's hurt. Reader was probably the best DT in the league vs the run. And I think Reader wanted to be here.

We let Bates go and replace him with Nick Scott. That fails, and we bring in Geno Stone. Big downgrades.

(09-24-2024, 10:48 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: I couldn't believe the people on this board that spoke of Geno Stone so highly. He split time as the Ravens 3rd safety for the last two years with Ardarius Washington, who just happened to get hurt for them the last two years, elevating Stone as the 3rd S. He is a back-end of the roster depth piece who is a poor run defender with limited athletic ability that just happened to have 7 INTs last year. Fluky things happen when it comes to INTs and somehow the front office + many fans on this board thought we signed a difference maker. 

(09-24-2024, 10:07 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Blame the coaches, blame the defense, blame whoever.

The real issue? The talent on the roster. It's not good enough, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

The 2021 Super Bowl team was built on free agency - Reader, Chido, Hendrickson, Hilton, Reiff, Vonn Bell. The Bengals have added or replaced some of that talent bringing in Cappa, Karras, Orlando Brown Jr, Geno Stone, Rankins who are on their current roster.

My question is this - where are the draft picks? Other than the Burrow and Chase LAY UPS, who have we drafted since 2019 that you'd consider a good positional NFL player? Higgins, CTB, Logan Wilson. That's it.

The Bengals have WHIFFED in the draft over the past 5 years.

When is Duke Tobin going to be held accountable? Who's responsible for the drafting of guys, especially on the defensive side of the ball? Does Lou have a say? Because he sure seemed giddy every time he was at the podium after we drafted 3 straight defensive players in the first 3 rounds last year.

They need more out of the draft. We can't continue whiffing on first round picks like Dax Hill and second round picks like Jackson Carman. We can't have drafts like 2021 where literally no one is contributing other than Chase. Everyone LOVED this years class, but who is contributing on the defensive side of the ball? It's been pathetic.

(09-24-2024, 10:51 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: which is fine if they rotated him with Battle. But they rather keep Stone out there and not use battle

(09-24-2024, 10:51 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: which is fine if they rotated him with Battle. But they rather keep Stone out there and not use battle

(09-24-2024, 10:07 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Blame the coaches, blame the defense, blame whoever.

The real issue? The talent on the roster. It's not good enough, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

The 2021 Super Bowl team was built on free agency - Reader, Chido, Hendrickson, Hilton, Reiff, Vonn Bell. The Bengals have added or replaced some of that talent bringing in Cappa, Karras, Orlando Brown Jr, Geno Stone, Rankins who are on their current roster.

My question is this - where are the draft picks? Other than the Burrow and Chase LAY UPS, who have we drafted since 2019 that you'd consider a good positional NFL player? Higgins, CTB, Logan Wilson. That's it.

The Bengals have WHIFFED in the draft over the past 5 years.

When is Duke Tobin going to be held accountable? Who's responsible for the drafting of guys, especially on the defensive side of the ball? Does Lou have a say? Because he sure seemed giddy every time he was at the podium after we drafted 3 straight defensive players in the first 3 rounds last year.

They need more out of the draft. We can't continue whiffing on first round picks like Dax Hill and second round picks like Jackson Carman. We can't have drafts like 2021 where literally no one is contributing other than Chase. Everyone LOVED this years class, but who is contributing on the defensive side of the ball? It's been pathetic.

(09-24-2024, 10:48 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: I couldn't believe the people on this board that spoke of Geno Stone so highly. He split time as the Ravens 3rd safety for the last two years with Ardarius Washington, who just happened to get hurt for them the last two years, elevating Stone as the 3rd S. He is a back-end of the roster depth piece who is a poor run defender with limited athletic ability that just happened to have 7 INTs last year. Fluky things happen when it comes to INTs and somehow the front office + many fans on this board thought we signed a difference maker. 

(09-24-2024, 11:31 AM)Whatever Wrote: This team has philosophically moved it's team building philosophy away from what made them a SB contender in the first place.  

When we were true contenders, we drafted skill position players high and effectively built the defense out of FA.  Now, we're trying to build the defense in the draft and piece together the offense out of FA's and Day 3 draft picks around the trio of good players we drafted and still have left(and one's playing for someone else next year).  It's not working.

Bottom line is this, this team cannot draft and develop "trenches" to save it's life. You can either keep throwing away premium draft capital for little return or accept it and address them in another way.  

(09-24-2024, 12:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we look at our roster and we're like in 2 years this player will cost too much and leave. So we draft the replacement. Happened since Whitworth.

But, most of the time the drafted guys are about half as good as the guy they replace, so the strategy fails. Over and over.

Look...we don't draft well outside of Burrow, Chase, and Higgins.

(09-24-2024, 12:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not retaining their own best players is another philosophy shift, sadly.  But drafting to replace is a sound strategy...at positions you can actually draft and develop.  

The Bengals do very well drafting WR's and RB's within the first three rounds.  But instead of drafting to replace Mixon, they overpaid for him for years, even when he wasn't a great scheme fit.  Or, they knew Tee and Boyd were going to be UFA's this year for quite awhile.  Instead of spending some premium picks there to develop and replace them, they put it off and are now starting a 6th round scrub and had to handcuff themselves in FA by tagging their WR2.  Christian Wilkins has a cap hit of $10.4 mil this year, less than half of Tee's.  Sure would be nice to have him on this DL, now, wouldn't it?  

Historically, with our Day 1 and 2 picks, we draft well at WR, RB, TE, CB, and S.  We sucked at LB for years, but that seems to have changed with Pratt and Wilson.  The last "trench" player we've really hit on in those rounds was Hubbard...seven fn years ago.  

It's not rocket science.  Who would you rather have on a rookie deal, the next Joe Mixon or the next Devon Still?  The next Jessie Bates or the next Jackson Carmen?  The next Jonah Williams or the next Jermaine Gresham?  The next Myles Murphy or the next Ja'Marr Chase?  The next Logan Wilson or the next Zach Carter?  The next Jordan Battle or the next Joseph Ossai?

Makes ZERO sense.  None.