(12-04-2023, 11:11 AM)casear2727 Wrote: And again, that doesnt put Zac at Andy Reid's level.    I guess you think Stefanski is tiers above Zac since he has owned him?

(12-03-2023, 11:35 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Mahomes has not produced a TD in the first half and recently against Denver no TD’s the whole game. But Andy Reid’s a genius. Well he got fired at Philly because of QB play. Amazing how that works. He’s 1-3 vs Zac

(12-04-2023, 11:15 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No I think Cleveland is a bad matchup for us. But with Zac 10-5 from ‘21-‘23 vs SF. KC, Bills, and Balt is a much better sample size.

(12-03-2023, 11:46 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Not trying to be argumentative but when Bengals are in a slump it’s all Zac’s fault. But dare Shanahan be blamed when they are in a slump?

(12-04-2023, 12:38 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’ll second this I also think Zac seems like a really nice guy. I’m just not convinced he’s an offensive genius. I can’t imagine what burrow would do if he were paired with shannahan, or Reid, or Belicheck with an oc of his choosing.

I have nothing against Zac. He’s done a lot for this organization. He got us into position to draft burrow and chase. He helped in drafting a great roster. He’s built a winning culture. I’m just not sure he’s a briilant offensive mind. I would love nothing more than for him to be a brilliant offensive mind. But too often I see his elite players struggling to find open space.

(12-03-2023, 01:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I left off Stafford because while I don't consider him a bum, I don't consider him one of the top 10 QBs in the league.
He's not Top 10 in QB Rating, pass yards, pass TDs, etc.
He's better than what the Bengals have right now without Burrow though, I'll give you that.

(12-04-2023, 11:22 AM)casear2727 Wrote: So why was the first comment necessary? You actually posted it twice. Zac has a LONG way to go to be considered on Reids tier. And if we are being honest what is Zac's record vs Bmore with Lamar actually playing?

(12-04-2023, 11:47 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well Shanahan has had reasonable success the places he's been and Taylor has only had success as a play caller with Burrow. Shanahan also has an amazing scheme and while Purdy is a good QB and deserves credit his best attribute is working within the scheme. 

(12-03-2023, 10:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't want to discount what the Bengals did against the 49ers. We needed the win and we went into there house and took care of business. But let's also realize we caught them at a pretty good time. No Deebo and they seemed to be in a little bit of a slump at the time. The Bengals were playing pretty good. But isn't what all these arguments are about is whether it's Burrow making everyone better and whether a different playcaller could improve his game even more.

(12-04-2023, 11:54 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I get it. These two players certainly changed our franchise and we did need to actually make the picks so that counts for something. But being absolutely terrible at your job to get us into that position shouldn't count as a positive for you. In my opinion.

(12-04-2023, 12:15 PM)Wyche Wrote: Good coaches scheme around injury.

(12-04-2023, 12:21 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm sure they were. My point was we did not face a full strength 49ers team. People pointing out what we did to the 49ers compared to what the 49ers do to another team when they are full strength isn't a fair comparison.

(12-04-2023, 12:36 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It's not. On the other hand, we're giving Zac shit for not scheming around a once injured, now lost, starting QB....but giving Shanahan a pass because he couldn't scheme around the loss of a WR. Just seems a little disingenuous to me. 

(12-04-2023, 12:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's not. On the other hand, we're giving Zac shit for not scheming around a once injured, now lost, starting QB....but giving Shanahan a pass because he couldn't scheme around the loss of a WR. Just seems a little disingenuous to me. 

(12-04-2023, 12:18 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Like HOF coach Jimmy Johnson? He inherited a crap roster and started 8-24 and got a #1 QB HOF’s Emmit Smith & Michael Irvin. Zac gets Joe and Chase. Sound familiar? Zac started almost identical to Jimmy Johnson at 6-25-1.

(12-04-2023, 12:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But not changing your scheme a little to deal with a hobbled QB and not changing your scheme to deal with the loss of a WR are not even in the same ballpark. 

(12-04-2023, 12:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:  If we can't look at this situation honestly we can't have a conversation. 

(12-04-2023, 12:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Um correct me if I'm wrong but Jimmy Johnson was a defensive coach? He also had success before he came to the cowboy's. So he had a bad record when he 1st came to the cowboy's seems to be about the only thing he has in common with Zac. 

(12-04-2023, 12:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 2 things: 
1) Most coaches we consider great NOW had bad 1st seasons (some more than the 1st)

2) If Jimmy Johnson had success before arriving in Dallas, wouldn't you agree that the expectations for him were higher and thus if his record was the same as Zac's it's actually WORSE for JJ?

(12-04-2023, 12:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 2 things: 
1) Most coaches we consider great NOW had bad 1st seasons (some more than the 1st)

(12-04-2023, 12:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Um correct me if I'm wrong but Jimmy Johnson was a defensive coach? He also had success before he came to the cowboy's. So he had a bad record when he 1st came to the cowboy's seems to be about the only thing he has in common with Zac. But we know our team so we should be able to look at that 1st year and know if Taylor's bad record that 1st year was him or the talent of players. While we might not have won a superbowl or even made the playoffs. Our record that year certainly had more to do with Taylor being bad than our talent level. 

(12-04-2023, 12:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I never even brought up the scheming with or without Deebo just merely mentioned him being out. But not changing your scheme a little to deal with a hobbled QB and not changing your scheme to deal with the loss of a WR are not even in the same ballpark. If we can't look at this situation honestly we can't have a conversation.